The Wedding of Jesus

[planten]

Amen Jesus did die, at least we got up to bat. So tell me we know where the apostles were buried, we know where the Jews are buried, we know were the pagan rulers are buried who lived during Jesus lifetime. Can you tell me where Jesus is layed?

Interesting, the first century Jews and Pagan Roman rulers sought desperately to disprove Jesus resurrection by finding his body, but Jesus kept appearing to eyewitnesses. So now your going to tell me all the first century christians, the first century Jews, and first century pagan Romans were all lying that Jesus did not resurrect from the dead.

So tell me do you believe in the bible both the old and new testaments?

**Gabriel of 12, that is your belief, i.e. the resurrection. We believe that Jesus was not dead when he was brought from the Cross. He had fainted. He was un-conscious. Later in a room like tomb, Jesus recovered and Got Up. That Got Up you call it resurrection.

There was no resurrection in the bible old books. It was written “He rose”. or, it was said “He had risen”. Well he rose from a lying down position not from any dead position. What do you say? Later he could not appear in public because he was a condemned man supposed to be dead. So he kept low and met only his close friends. Later he migrated like all the othe rprophets, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, Moses a.s. he did not go up into the sky but went away in search of other Jews, the lost tribes of the Jewish race.**

 

[simplynoone]

**Gabriel of 12, that is your belief, i.e. the resurrection. We believe that Jesus was not dead when he was brought from the Cross. He had fainted. He was un-conscious. Later in a room like tomb, Jesus recovered and Got Up. That Got Up you call it resurrection.

There was no resurrection in the bible old books. It was written “He rose”. or, it was said “He had risen”. Well he rose from a lying down position not from any dead position. What do you say? Later he could not appear in public because he was a condemned man supposed to be dead. So he kept low and met only his close friends. Later he migrated like all the othe rprophets, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, Moses a.s. he did not go up into the sky but went away in search of other Jews, the lost tribes of the Jewish race.**

This makes a lot more sense than all the fantasy stories. Are you a Jew? I am kind of becoming fond of the Jews. They seem to have their heads on straight.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

**
Since you take out all support from the bibleOt, can you please tell me if there is any news of a Triune God there in the OT? There have been many prophets in the Israeli line from Jacob to John the baptist. The Jews may not be believing in John as a prophet. Please tell me did any one teach the Trinity?

Did John the baptist teach any Trinity?

Gabriel of 12:

Sure John eyewitnessed the blessed Trinity here it is in scripture;

Mathew 3:13
10 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him.
14
11 John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me?”
15
Jesus said to him in reply, “Allow it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed him.
16
12 After **Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water ****and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him.
17
**And a voice came from the heavens, saying, “This is my beloved Son, 13 with whom I am well pleased.” **

Well there you have it John the baptist eyewitnessing the blessed Trinity and attaching all 3 persons to one God.

Here is John the beloved disciple of Jesus
John 1:1
1 2** In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. **
2
He was in the beginning with God.
3
3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be
4
through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;
6
5 A man named John was sent from God.
7
He came for testimony, 6 to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him.
8
He was not the light, but came to testify to the light.
9
The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
10
**He was in the world, and the world came to be through him, but the world did not know him.
11
He came to what was his own, but his own people 7 did not accept him.
12
But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name,
13
8 who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man’s decision but of God. **
14
**And the Word became flesh 9 and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth. **
15
10 John testified to him and cried out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘The one who is coming after me ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.’”
16
From his fullness we have all received, grace in place of grace, 11
17
because while the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18
**No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, 12 who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.
19
13 14 And this is the testimony of John. **

John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, 21 who takes away the sin of the world.
30
22 He is the one of whom I said, ‘A man is coming after me who ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.’
31
I did not know him, 23 but the reason why I came baptizing with water was that he might be made known to Israel.”
32
John testified further, saying, "I saw the Spirit come down like a dove 24 from the sky and remain upon him.
33
I did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptize with the holy Spirit.’
34
25 Now I have seen and testified that he is the Son of God."

Tell me planten JOhn the baptist, and the beloved JOhn both believed in Jesus divinity as the Word of God made flesh. But if I know the world, as you may respond, the world did not accept him bringing God’s Holy Word to pass from the scriptures.

Peace be with you

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

i do not even believe jesus existed, so your point is null and void with me.

I believe in telling the truth and the truth is the new testament contradicts the Old testament.

Gabriel of 12;
The “Truth of the matter is” you cannot have Old testament without the New testament if you seek the full Truth of God. For as St. Augustine relates these two testaments, The Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament and the New Testament is hidden in the Old Testament.

God has revealed himself through both Testaments, it would not do you no harm to investigate further for the God who loves you through his sacred Word which became flesh.

 

[simplynoone]

Gabriel of 12;
The “Truth of the matter is” you cannot have Old testament without the New testament if you seek the full Truth of God. For as St. Augustine relates these two testaments, The Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament and the New Testament is hidden in the Old Testament.

God has revealed himself through both Testaments, it would not do you no harm to investigate further for the God who loves you through his sacred Word which became flesh.

kind of reminds me of the age old addage: which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I think in this case it is clear. The old testament says that there is no other God but Him. He also makes it clear that He is not a man. Pretty cut and dry.

 

[planten]

**
Since you take out all support from the bibleOt, can you please tell me if there is any news of a Triune God there in the OT? There have been many prophets in the Israeli line from Jacob to John the baptist. The Jews may not be believing in John as a prophet. Please tell me did any one teach the Trinity?

Did John the baptist teach any Trinity?

Gabriel of 12:

Sure John eyewitnessed the blessed Trinity here it is in scripture;

Mathew 3:13
10 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him.
14
11 John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me?”
15
Jesus said to him in reply, “Allow it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed him.
16
12 After **Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water ****

and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him.
17
**And a voice came from the heavens, saying, “This is my beloved Son, 13 with whom I am well pleased.” **

Well there you have it John the baptist eyewitnessing the blessed Trinity and attaching all 3 persons to one God.

Here is John the beloved disciple of Jesus
John 1:1
1 2** In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. **
2
He was in the beginning with God.
3
3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be
4
through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;
6
5 A man named John was sent from God.
7
He came for testimony, 6 to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him.
8
He was not the light, but came to testify to the light.
9
The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
10
**He was in the world, and the world came to be through him, but the world did not know him.
11
He came to what was his own, but his own people 7 did not accept him.
12
But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name,
13
8 who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man’s decision but of God. **
14
**And the Word became flesh 9 and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth. **
15
10 John testified to him and cried out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘The one who is coming after me ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.’”
16
From his fullness we have all received, grace in place of grace, 11
17
because while the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18
**No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, 12 who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.
19
13 14 And this is the testimony of John. **

John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, 21 who takes away the sin of the world.
30
22 He is the one of whom I said, ‘A man is coming after me who ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.’
31
I did not know him, 23 but the reason why I came baptizing with water was that he might be made known to Israel.”
32
John testified further, saying, "I saw the Spirit come down like a dove 24 from the sky and remain upon him.
33
I did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptize with the holy Spirit.’
34
25 Now I have seen and testified that he is the Son of God."

Tell me planten JOhn the baptist, and the beloved JOhn both believed in Jesus divinity as the Word of God made flesh. But if I know the world, as you may respond, the world did not accept him bringing God’s Holy Word to pass from the scriptures.

Peace be with you

Gabriel of 12, you are avoiding the issue. I am not talking about john the apostle. I am asking about John the baptist. Did he say any word about Trinity? Did he say that there is Triune God? Did he say anything about the Father and he son and the holy ghost?? Please reply to that. Thanks. Keep trying.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

** We believe that Jesus was not dead when he was brought from the Cross. He had fainted. He was un-conscious. Later in a room like tomb, Jesus recovered and Got Up. That Got Up you call it resurrection.

Gabriel of 12;

When you say we do you speak for all Muslims? First of all it is written from antiquity that Jesus was speared and confirmed dead as per the gospels (which means God’s truth) not my declaration, you are wrong for thinking I made this up. I dont know about your history teacher but I would get my money back if I were you. Someone is not telling you the full Historical facts of History.

Planten
There was no resurrection in the bible old books. It was written “He rose”. or, it was said “He had risen”. Well he rose from a lying down position not from any dead position. What do you say? Later he could not appear in public because he was a condemned man supposed to be dead. So he kept low and met only his close friends. Later he migrated like all the othe rprophets, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, Moses a.s. he did not go up into the sky but went away in search of other Jews, the lost tribes of the Jewish race.**

Gabriel of 12;
We know where all these are buried, except Moses for God buried Moses. So if you are so confident that Jesus did not die. Then where is he, or where is his body. Why do we have Solomons, and Davids tombs who were before Jesus.

planten? have you been mixing your Islam with Mormonism shame on you. If you think Jesus went in search of tribes of the Jewish race? Maybe we should stick to the basics here about Christianity?

So you believe Jesus legs did not get broken either?, so he just walked away, when he got all of Jerusalem in an uproar. Jesus just got up from his wounds and pierced body, and just walked away without dying? Maybe you should read all three accounts of the crucifixion from the Gospels and then tell us which one of them is lying?

Peace be with you

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel of 12;4855616:

Gabriel of 12, you are avoiding the issue. I am not talking about john the apostle. I am asking about John the baptist. Did he say any word about Trinity? Did he say that there is Triune God? Did he say anything about the Father and he son and the holy ghost?? Please reply to that. Thanks. Keep trying.

Gabriel of 12:

I gave you JOhn the baptist eyewitness account of the blessed Trinity. REread Mathew 3:13-17 this is JOhn the baptist giving eyewitness to Jesus (the second person of the blessed trinity), JOhn testified seeing the “Spirit of God” (third person of the blessed trinity) resting upon Jesus in the form of a dove, then JOhn testified to not just seeing but HEARING the voice of God from heaven (first person of the blessed trinity) confirming Jesus as his son and well pleased.

Jesus mentioned all three after Jesus reveals who all these persons are in one God. JOhn only testified of seeing and hearing, Jesus confirms to what John the baptist testified too the blessed trinity.

Here is Jesus confirming what John testified too, because Jesus is the “Rabbi” the teacher who will reveal all these mysteries of God.

Mathew 28:18
11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19
**Go, therefore, 12 and make disciples of all nations, baptizing **them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. 13 And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

As far as the old testament is concerned, if you really want to see the blessed trinity from the new covenant hidden in the old covenant, I must ask you first are you familiar with the ancient biblical study of “typology”? If your not you need this study first if you want to delve into the deeper things of God. If you dont believe JOhn the baptists testimony, who’s will you believe?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

kind of reminds me of the age old addage: which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I think in this case it is clear. The old testament says that there is no other God but Him. He also makes it clear that He is not a man. Pretty cut and dry.

Gabriel of 12;
Ah yes, but he promised Abraham that he God himself will provide the sacrifice. And God fulfilled his promise himself by providing himself as the sacrifice in order for you and I to live eternally the way he created us for.

My faith does not limit God to anything, for God said he could make the rocks cry out to proclaim him Lord, if man could not do so. Is your God limited to creation? My God is not for he is the creator of all creation.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Gabriel of 12;
Ah yes, but he promised Abraham that he God himself will provide the sacrifice. And God fulfilled his promise himself by providing himself as the sacrifice in order for you and I to live eternally the way he created us for.

My faith does not limit God to anything, for God said he could make the rocks cry out to proclaim him Lord, if man could not do so. Is your God limited to creation? My God is not for he is the creator of all creation.

 

[paarsurrey]

Gabriel of 12;4855616:

Gabriel of 12, you are avoiding the issue. I am not talking about john the apostle. I am asking about John the baptist. Did he say any word about Trinity? Did he say that there is Triune God? Did he say anything about the Father and he son and the holy ghost?? Please reply to that. Thanks. Keep trying.

Hi brother planten!

You bring in a good point. After all Jesus was baptised at the hand of John the Baptist. John had Baptised Jesus, that showed in a pictorial way that Jesus was a Jew, he would remain a Jew all his life and would make sure that his followers remain Jews and they don’t convert to Catholicism in future, in my opinion. That was the tradition and legacy he left, in my opinion.

But later Paul/s usurped and hijacked Jesus, in my opinion.

Jesus could assert himself for his claims and reasons; he needed no Paul/s, in my opinion; **I love Jesus **for his wisdom. Jesus feared nobody except GodAllahYHWH whose humble servant Jesus was, in my opinion.I love the blessed Mary also.

Thanks

 

[planten]

** Gabriel of 12,

I tried to go back to see the material concerning John the baptist. John baptised Jesus. But you have not presented the material in a good continous wy. You have mixed up all the verses and verse numbers. Please see what you wrote:

Sure John eyewitnessed the blessed Trinity here it is in scripture;

Mathew 3:13
10 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him.
14
11 John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me?”
15
Jesus said to him in reply, “Allow it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed him.
16
12 After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him.
17
And a voice came from the heavens, saying, “This is my beloved Son, 13 with whom I am well pleased.”

Well there you have it John the baptist eyewitnessing the blessed Trinity and attaching all 3 persons to one God**.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;4853127:

Again, when Jesus taught that the Law remains
to be observed by everyone according to Matthew 5:19, and Paul
taught that the Law was abolished on the cross according to Ephesians 2:15, tell me, are not these two teachings defferent?
Is Paul keeping with the sound teaching of Jesus?

Please, don’t think I am joking! Help me understand this paradox, because that’s what it sounds to me: A paradox. Thanks.

Ben:

/

Yes but you do not understand what he meant. The masaic law gave the jews privileged status and separated them from the gentiles. Jesus abolished THIS law by fulfilling it once for ALL on the cross…

Col 2:14 The elabrate metaphor here about how God canceled the legal claims against us through Christs cross depicts not Christ being nailed to the cross by men but the BOND which its legal claim being nailed to the cross by God.

Okay, I think we are getting somewhere. It means
you are separating Mosaic Law from God’s Law. We don’t make that separation. But let it be as you please for the time being. Are the Ten Commandments within your classification of God’s Law or Mosaic Law? I’ll be waiting for the answer.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

**Gabriel of 12, that is your belief, i.e. the resurrection. We believe that Jesus was not dead when he was brought from the Cross. He had fainted. He was un-conscious. Later in a room like tomb, Jesus recovered and Got Up. That Got Up you call it resurrection.

There was no resurrection in the bible old books. It was written “He rose”. or, it was said “He had risen”. Well he rose from a lying down position not from any dead position. What do you say? Later he could not appear in public because he was a condemned man supposed to be dead. So he kept low and met only his close friends. Later he migrated like all the othe rprophets, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, Moses a.s. he did not go up into the sky but went away in search of other Jews, the lost tribes of the Jewish race.**

Planten, with yours and Gabriel12’s permission, I would like to get between you two here but just to say that this post of yours is superb.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

I hold out that Ben may be given the grace to see.
At least I am praying for the folks in here.

If I can be of service, I would willingly help.

I just hope if Ben has any questions - i am able to help - or i am able to find the answers somehow.

Fortunately i have been debating online for quite a number of years that very few debates come as a surprise to me that I havent already researched.

Peace rinnie.

Very good! Here is a good question for you: Where in the whole of the NT is written that Jesus was NOT married? Show me and we are in business.

Ben:

 

[dolphinlove]

Very good! Here is a good question for you: Where in the whole of the NT is written that Jesus was NOT married? Show me and we are in business.

Ben:

Where was Jesus’ wife when he was been whipped and put up on the cross, surely she must have been there?
Oh, thats right, no record of her been there, and im sure a wife would have been there to support her husband…

 

[swariffin]

Very good! Here is a good question for you: Where in the whole of the NT is written that Jesus was NOT married? Show me and we are in business.

Ben:

By your logic, the jail will be crowded with people. You must have a written proof of somebody NOT doing something to make he/she NOT doing that thing.

 

[swariffin]

Ben Masada;4844164:

Ben, a morsel of truth again, ITs a revelation. But you did say something truth,

I Agree! The truth cannot and will never be hidden on behalf of the Catholic Church,

It impossible because the RCC is the Pillar of Truth. You will find nothing but the truth in the teachings of the RCC. Why because Jesus Christ is the Church. You cannot separate him from his church. I already told you that.

You want the truth ben, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. One road will get you there the straight and narrow.

One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Maybe someday you will have the grace from Jesus CHrist to accept the truth. But I for one I cannot give that to you. I cannot lie like I have heard others do and claim the Power of the Holy Spirit.

Oh the Lord is in my soul, but I do not have the AUTHORITY to teach what I think, I have the wisdom to learn from the Church. My Church the RCC. The bible tells me that. You made my day ben, and now I am going to enjoy the weekend and rejoice and be glad.

You can keep trying to destory the church, many have tried, and failed as you have done. Read about Saul ben, Maybe you can learn something! You may even see some of yourself in him. Jesus changed saul and can change you do. All you have to do is ask.

Have a great a wonderful week-end!

Jesus rose Lazarus from the dead, and yet the Jewish did not believe in Him.

The Holy Spirit has overcome communism in Poland and East German (Hey CIA and MOSSAD have failed to do that), and yet they don’t believe it.

It is just like the story of the NT brought in today’s life.

 

[swariffin]

** jonathan, I am more interested in the Jesus twin brother Thomas. I had heard about it but lost it from mind completely. What do we know about that brother of Jesus? Please tell us.**

Now where do you get that story of twin brother of Jesus?

 

[swariffin]

**
In such a situation, please compare the bibleNT with the Torah and the Quran. The Torah and the Quran are at least believed (claimed) to be from God.

**

Do you believe the Torah equally as you believe in Quran? Do you based your faith on Torah?? If you believe that the Torah is also the word of God like the Quran, then you must follow the Torah too. My question, Torah said “Thou shall not kill…”. Quran said “Kill the unbeliever…” Hey, brother, you are contradicting yourself.