The Wedding of Jesus

[swariffin]

Well my friend, your NT says that Jesus was a Rabbi. And I am filling in the blanks that a Jewish Rabbi much more strictly in the First Century than today, he had to be a married man. You can’t bake your cake and eat it too. If you want to deny that he was married, drop the claim that he was a Rabbi.

And the credibility of the NT has been shattered by the complete lack of logic between the alleged facts.

The test to prove the Truth is found in Isaiah 8:20. “To the Law and the Testimony; if they don’t speak according to this word, it’s because there is no light in them.” Does the NT speak according to the Law and the Testimony? I didn’t think so. On the contrary, it rather abolishes the Law in the words of Paul.(Ephe. 2:15)

All simply Pauline rhetoric about a Jew who had nothing to do with him.

Ben:

You only believe Jesus for 20%, why then you insist that Jesus was a rabbi?

 

[swariffin]

Very simply Rinnie, you guys claim that Jesus was Christ, right? Right. So, Christ said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law.” (Mat. 5:17)

Now, let’t go to Ephesians 2:15. Paraphrasing, Paul said that’s not true what Jesus said, because the Law was abolished on the cross, and that Christ was the end of the Law. (Rom. 10:4)

In my opinion, Paul was contradicting Jesus. Contra means Anti. Is that so or not? I guess your answer is yes. If Jesus, as you claim, was Christ and Paul contradicted him, what can I deduce from here? But if you say I am wrong, go ahead, you are right. I am wrong, and you are the winner on this one. As long as we remain friends.

Ben:

Which Torah law that Paul contradict with Jesus? The real Torah according to Jesus, or the Torah according to the Pharisee??

 

[swariffin]

rinnie;4852411:

No Ben of course you continue to put words in the mouth of Everyone. Today it is Paul. Jesus taught the true meaning of the law. You cannot understand the true meaning apart from Jesus.

“To explain it, to teach it, to fulfill it…” That’s it? What happened to verse 19? I am sure you are talking about Matthew 5:17-19 am I right? Oh, pardon me! Perhaps we are using different Bibles and yours does not have verse 19.

Let me tell you what verse 19 says in my Bible. Just the main words: They convey the message that if we don’t do exactly as Jesus did, we won’t be with him in the Kingdom of God. Does it mean that he was the end of the Law? I don’t understand but I just can’t see it that way.

But’s that’s okay. There must be some mystical meaning to the words of Jesus. Or who knows? Perhaps Christ spoke verse 17 and Jesus verse 19. In that case, you are right. I give in to your wisdom.

God bless you too.

Ben:

Which Torah law you are talking about? The Torah according to Jesus or the Thorah according to the Pharisee??

Jesus healed many during the Sabath and the Pharisee objected that. So, there are two different Thorah there.

 

[swariffin]

**It is a good question. It is against the teachings of Jesus. The NT is a new wine. The OT is the old wine. Jesus forbade people to put new wine into old winesacks.

What the christians need the OT for? Just to catch a few words of support for Jesus from there? And in those words there is no name of Jesus or Mary or church or christainity? And the christinas have parted ways with the Jewish law and abondoned the Moses law as a Curse. How bad? That was suggested to them by Paul. And still teh christians ask us “What was the fault of Paul”.

Jesus did not abondon the law. He supported and followed it fully. So did his mother Mary and so did all his true apostles. But when Jesus had gone away and the field was clear (empty), Paul jumped in “in the name of Jesus…”. jesus had warned that many will come “in his name…”. Paul was number One there who came in the name of Jesus.

There are so many complications in the church teachings. But let us see how the Catholics can resolve any of them. The christians should faithfully dump the old testament. They do not follow any of the commandments of the Old Testament, so there is no need to keep it attached with their testament which they call New Testament. Why have New wine poured into old winesack?**

If Paul invented Christianity, he should have dumped the OT.

 

[swariffin]

**We need to have Jesus married because he was a human and an important person (as you say) and he should be a good example in this world for the men. If he does not marry, how he would know the hardships and problems of married life?

Please be kind. Do not diverge. Do not go on a tangent. All the prophets before Jesus had been married. If marraige was such a bad thing then they would not marry.

You are introducing something un-natural in the human system. It is all due to you that Popes had to order the priests not to get married. How bad?**

You are wrong. Many non-Catholic Christian priests in Indonesia are following the celibacy too. If you ever see a Catholic priest in Indonesia with the ratio of 1 to 13.000, with the pressure from the Muslims, you are glad that you have no family to take care the church.

 

[swariffin]

those coming off as arrogant and close minded are those who are the catholics here, for th most part anyway. I have a question, when one accepts this god Jesus into their life, is it a requirement to turn off any and extra avenues of thought? If so, then you can count me out. What is so wrong with Jesus getting married? It hasn’t worked out well for the priests of the catholic church to abstain. Seems like the Jew makes an interesting point.

Can you present any record that Jesus was married, not just with arguments?

 

[swariffin]

I think that Isaiah is speaking against the christian and catholic faiths. Do not pull just a couple of verses out to support yourself. Read it all and perhapst you will start to actually SEE and HEAR. God says their is only one God and there is no other right? Guess that leaves jesus out in the cold.

The way I see it, Isaiah supports Christianity

 

[swariffin]

Can we just be candid for a minute? Jesus is dead, it is after all a natural thing for man to die and I do not see that Jesus was exception to this. So, isn’t it YOU who is worshiping the god of the dead?

That is why we believe that Jesus has risen from the dead, and ascended into heaven. Surely we believe in the God of the living.

 

[swariffin]

Wondering if you could help me out here. where does GOD say this?

Mat 19:12.

 

[swariffin]

**Gabriel of 12, Please do not put your foot in two boats at once. We know you profess that you worship only One God. But who is that One God? That is Jesus, is he not? You have a complicated belief. You talk about a different type of God.

Since you take out all support from the bibleOt, can you please tell me if there is any news of a Triune God there in the OT? There have been many prophets in the Israeli line from Jacob to John the baptist. The Jews may not be believing in John as a prophet. Please tell me did any one teach the Trinity?

Did John the baptist teach any Trinity? Think over.

It would be better if you people started reading the bibleOT regularly. Then you will understand the God and the religion. There is a good law there and plenty of advice in the bibleOT even now.

Jesus being a Rabbi and a great teacher had good knowledge of the OT. Why don’t you also acquire that knowledge please?
**

Jesus is the word of God and is God. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. So, God, the word of God, the spirit of God is God. With your Muhammadism kind of logic, you will never understand that.

 

[swariffin]

**Gabriel of 12, that is your belief, i.e. the resurrection. We believe that Jesus was not dead when he was brought from the Cross. He had fainted. He was un-conscious. Later in a room like tomb, Jesus recovered and Got Up. That Got Up you call it resurrection.

There was no resurrection in the bible old books. It was written “He rose”. or, it was said “He had risen”. Well he rose from a lying down position not from any dead position. What do you say? Later he could not appear in public because he was a condemned man supposed to be dead. So he kept low and met only his close friends. Later he migrated like all the othe rprophets, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, Moses a.s. he did not go up into the sky but went away in search of other Jews, the lost tribes of the Jewish race.**

When Jesus appeared in the coast of Galilee, do you think he appears in a secret place? Do you think the lake of Galilee belongs to the disciple of Jesus only?

BTW, you are welcome to believe what you want to believe. No compulsion.

 

[swariffin]

i do not even believe jesus existed, so your point is null and void with me.

I believe in telling the truth and the truth is the new testament contradicts the Old testament.

Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[swariffin]

Gabriel of 12;4855616:

**Gabriel of 12, you are avoiding the issue. I am not talking about john the apostle. I am asking about John the baptist. Did he say any word about Trinity? Did he say that there is Triune God? Did he say anything about the Father and he son and the holy ghost?? **

The Trinity is the fact in heaven, in which Jesus was teaching that. He did teach the Trinity in a slow fashion, not a direct simple language.

 

[swariffin]

planten;4855687:

Hi brother planten!

You bring in a good point. After all Jesus was baptised at the hand of John the Baptist. John had Baptised Jesus, that showed in a pictorial way that Jesus was a Jew, he would remain a Jew all his life and would make sure that his followers remain Jews and they don’t convert to Catholicism in future, in my opinion. That was the tradition and legacy he left, in my opinion.

But later Paul/s usurped and hijacked Jesus, in my opinion.

Jesus could assert himself for his claims and reasons; he needed no Paul/s, in my opinion; **I love Jesus **for his wisdom. Jesus feared nobody except GodAllahYHWH whose humble servant Jesus was, in my opinion.I love the blessed Mary also.

Thanks

Baptism is not the tradition of the Jews. Where do you get that.

 

[swariffin]

rinnie;4853435:

Okay, I think we are getting somewhere. It means
you are separating Mosaic Law from God’s Law. We don’t make that separation. But let it be as you please for the time being. Are the Ten Commandments within your classification of God’s Law or Mosaic Law? I’ll be waiting for the answer.

Ben:

God’s law is the 10 commandments. Mosaic law was basically God’s law added with fancy things such as no one was allowed to heal others during Sabath.

My question is Do the Jewish doctors and nurses help the patients during Sabath?

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;4856702:

God’s law is the 10 commandments. Mosaic law was basically God’s law added with fancy things such as no one was allowed to heal others during Sabath.

My question is Do the Jewish doctors and nurses help the patients during Sabath?

Swariffin, if you don’t mind a late answer to your post, I would like to wait to hear what Rinnie has to say first. Sorry pal.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Where was Jesus’ wife when he was been whipped and put up on the cross, surely she must have been there?
Oh, thats right, no record of her been there, and im sure a wife would have been there to support her husband…

I got you. It means you can’t find anywhere in the NT that Jesus was not married. Do you know why? Because it’s obvious.

Now, let me tell you that Mary Magdalene was there all the time together with her mother-in-law, the mother of Jesus. Read the crucifixion chapter in the fourth gospel. She was the last to leave when it was almost dark already. She left only after Joseph of Arimathea laid Jesus in that tomb. She witnessed every step of Joseph’s with Jesus until the stone was rolled across the tomb.

Why swimm against the waves during such a storm? Let it go Dolphinlove, it will be easier that way.

Ben:

 

[simplynoone]

Mat 19:12.

This is not God speaking. It is a man named Jesus speaking. Also, this is not supporting what your friend said. Your friend said God had called (or something to that effect) some to not marry. This says that a person has chosen it.

‘which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake.’

 

[simplynoone]

Can you present any record that Jesus was married, not just with arguments?

Can you present any saying he was not, not with just arguements?

And outside the Bible too please, as that seems to be on the biased side (obvious by its contradictions. Just seem the New Testament says what it wants as it fits its purpose)

 

[simplynoone]

Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Your welcome