The Wedding of Jesus

[Gabriel_of_12]

You err for not knowing even your own NT. How could Paul be a zealot learnt Jew if he used to teach the Jews to abandon Moses, to stop circumcising their children, and to renounce the Jewish customs? So much for a Zealot Jew. (Acts 21:21)

Gabriel of 12:
Paul was a zealot Jew because he; Paul sought to destroy the Christian faith by persecuting Jesus, when he got authority from the chief Jewish priest to Kill, persecute, and arrest Christians or followers of Jesus. Saul/Paul dedicated his Jewish life to subdue the growing disciples of Jesus, until God gave him a vision of his wrong doing. When God revealed to him the price Jesus paid in fulfilling the Law and Prophets by ending the Old Covenant, for He Jesus the Son of God the testator of the Old Covenant went to his death thereby setting us free from the Law no one could keep.

 

[Ginger2]

Please pardon me if I am a little behind in this dialog. I haven’t been keeping up since the thread went off-topic…

Isaiah 43:11. God Himself, the only Savior and Redeemer of Israel. Who alone made all things. (Isa. 44:24) The One Who, according to Isaiah 46:5, cannot be compared with an equal or be matched against as though they were alike.

Ben:

“For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace,” (Isaiah 9:6).

 

[swariffin]

rinnie;4886108:

Ben Masada;4885781:

rinnie;4883397:

You are all the time running away from the subject because you know that you are wrong and just can’t admit it before a man who shares with Jesus the same Faith, which is Judaism. Jesus said what he said and not what you would like he did.

There is no way out Rinnie. I wonder how you won’t get embarrassed when other people, even Catholics read our posts and see what you are doing. Go back and ponder on what is written in Matthew 5:17-19. I won’t let you off the hook that easy. I am sure you are intelligent enough to see that you are completely
our of logic. To admit that you believe what you say would be an insult to your intelligence.

Ben

You better ponder back our own Mat 5:17-19 and compare to what Thorah that the Jews had during Jesus time. For certain the Thorah that Jesus had in mind does not mean the same Thorah as the Jews practice at that time. So, that Paul mentioned that the law of Thorah is abolished. Paul meant the Thorah according what the Jews practiced at that time was abolished, so the real Thorah according to Jesus = according to God which prevails.

For a simple question that I ask for so many times. Do the Jewish doctors and nurses served their patients during sabbath? Yes or no?

Do not equate what was different, brother.

 

[swariffin]

You err for not knowing your own NT. Acts 9 is about Paul’s famous change of mind. And I tell you which people he was on his way to Damascus to arrest. They were those in the synagogues living according to the New Way. Who could they be,
Christians? Think again because Christians started about 5 years
later with him in Antioch. (Acts 11:26)

Those in the synagogues of Damascus could not be regular Jews because he would not get letters from Jerusalem to persecute Jews. They were the Nazarenes, followers of the New Way, a name given to the Nazarenes. (Acts 9:2) Read more carefully.

Do you want another proof of what I am saying? When he decided to come up to Jerusalem to join the Sect of the Nazarnes, the Nazarenes rejected him, afraid for his history of persecutions in Damascus. As you can see, those who were living according to the New Way were not Christians but Nazarenes.

Ben:

The Christian started when Jesus appointed his disciple. That why the word Christian exist, Christian = Follower of Christ. There was no Sect of Nazarene. It is you own imagination together with all the bribery story you created. At least, you have not yet provided your source of the existence of the sect of Nazarene. Perhaps you confused with the essenes people living at that time.

 

[swariffin]

The percentage of Jews like me with the mission to reclaim Jesus as one of our own is less than .1 percent. Jews in general don’t give a damn about who was Jesus or Mary Magdalene. They even prefer that he didn’t exist. I don’t blame them but Christians themselves for the cruelties done against them in the name of Jesus when this never had anything to do with Christians. I don’t even try to look for such records, because I’ll be rediculed by my own People. I prefer to explore the NT for all the evidences I need to coroborate the fact that Mary Magdalene was indeed Jesus’ wife.

Ben:

Great, so that should be the end of the accusation of Jesus marrying Mary Magdalene. If you believe that Mary Magdalene was not exist, then it is out of logic that you accuse Jesus to marry a non-existing girl.

 

[swariffin]

Not so fast! There is something else that you need to know. As you know already from my self-experience, the Bridegroom is the one in charge to provide the wine for the guests.

My question is: When they were running out of wine, why didn’t Mary go to the Bridegroom if he was not Jesus? She presented the complain to Jesus for one reason only: She didn’t want for her
son the embarrassment that he had not provided enough wine for everyone. Sometimes it helps to think.

Ben:

Where in the bible said that Jesus was the one who was obliged to provide the wine?

Mary did not run to the bridegrom since she knows that the wine is gone. How come an intelligence Jews cannot think that way? Why go to someone who has no capability to solve the problem? Just because Jesus “provided” the wine, then you conclude that Jesus was the bridegroom despite the illogical thinking that Jesus invited himself? Come on, I knows several Jewish doing business with my company, and they are all rationals.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Where in the bible said that Jesus was the one who was obliged to provide the wine?

I told you already about the Middle East tradition for the Groom to provide for the wine. I married here and was reminded of the tradition. Whatelse do you want? Why keep swimming against the waves? Can’t you conceive the logic that for Jesus to be married it will only elevate his credibility? You guys fight against this idea with reference to Jesus as if marriage was a contagious plague. Can’t you think of the worst?

Mary did not run to the bridegrom since she knows that the wine is gone. How come an intelligence Jews cannot think that way? Why go to someone who has no capability to solve the problem?

What are you talking about? Who was not capable to solve the problem, the Groom? It was his responsibility. And do you wanna know something? If the Groom had been a different man from Jesus, he would feel terribly embarrassed that a guest had to provide the best wine and not himself. Ponder and see if it makes sense.

Just because Jesus “provided” the wine, then you conclude that Jesus was the bridegroom despite the illogical thinking that Jesus invited himself?

No, Jesus was not the Bridegroom because he provided the wine. He provided the wine because he was the Bridegroom.

Come on, I knows several Jewish doing business with my company, and they are all rationals.

Now, you can say that again, because I agree with you 101 percent. Jews are very rational. God knows what He does. He would not waste His time with people who can’t think.

 

[Ben_Masada]

The Christian started when Jesus appointed his disciple. That why the word Christian exist, Christian = Follower of Christ. There was no Sect of Nazarene. It is you own imagination together with all the bribery story you created. At least, you have not yet provided your source of the existence of the sect of Nazarene. Perhaps you confused with the essenes people living at that time.

You either ignore your own NT or you honestly do not know much about it. When you say that Christians started with Jesus, you are creating a new contradiction in the NT. It’s very clear in Acts 11:26 that Christians started with Paul in Antioch, about 30 years after Jesus had been gone.

And when you say there was no Sect of Nazarenes, I can see how much you are familiar with your own NT. Perhaps you have chosen to let the Church guide what you should read or not. Open your NT and read Acts 24:5. What Sect of Nazarenes is Luke talking about in this quotation? Are you surprised now about the Sect of the Nazarenes? Now, have mercy of yourself and open your eyes to the truth.

Ben;

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;4886254:

rinnie;4886108:

Ben Masada;4885781:

For a simple question that I ask for so many times. Do the Jewish doctors and nurses served their patients during sabbath? Yes or no?

You ask so many times because you either forget or are not following the thread, because I have explained to you about this question already. Yes, the doctors and nurses serve their patients during Sabbaths. Wht’s the problem? This work on the Sabbath falls within the classification of “Pichuach Nephesh.” That’s what we call in Hebrew when a commandment is allowed to be broken for the fulfilment of a greater commandment. To help or to serve the sick is a greater commandment than to keep the Sabbath holy. Unless it’s not necessary.

Ben:

 

[planten]

Has the Wedding of Jesus not been celebrated fully yet? How long more that wedding will continue?

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;4885753:

You err for not knowing even your own NT. How could Paul be a zealot learnt Jew if he used to teach the Jews to abandon Moses, to stop circumcising their children, and to renounce the Jewish customs? So much for a Zealot Jew. (Acts 21:21)

Gabriel of 12:
Paul was a zealot Jew because he; Paul sought to destroy the Christian faith by persecuting Jesus, when he got authority from the chief Jewish priest to Kill, persecute, and arrest Christians or followers of Jesus. Saul/Paul dedicated his Jewish life to subdue the growing disciples of Jesus, until God gave him a vision of his wrong doing. When God revealed to him the price Jesus paid in fulfilling the Law and Prophets by ending the Old Covenant, for He Jesus the Son of God the testator of the Old Covenant went to his death thereby setting us free from the Law no one could keep.

There you go again with your broken record. Okay, I’ll give you a broken record for your broken record. Those Jews in Damascus were not Christians, because Christians started with Paul in Antioch. Read Acts 11:26. And Paul never persecuted a single Christian because one does not found a church to persecute the adepts.

Remember that visions are not only given by God. What happened to Paul on the Road to Damascus was a change of mind. Instead of fighting the Nazarenes physically, he decided to join and fight them from within. And to say that Jesus set us free from the Law is to contradict Jesus himself. He said loud and clear that we are all under the same obligation to observe the Law as he did. (Mat. 5:19) To contadict is to stand against. The prefix is “anti.” If you believe that Jesus was Christ, every time you contradic him you are forwarding yourself as antichrist.

Ben:

 

[rinnie]

Oh Ben, can you not accept the truth that you must do one lie after another. Thats how lies begin you know. one leads to many.

Lets start over. How about answering a question instead of avoiding them.

1. Jesus’ Mother was invited to a wedding. The Mother of Jesus was there. Jesus and his disciples HAD ALSO BEEN INVITED.

Okay Ben, lie number one. Why would you say that Jesus and his disciples would be invited to the Wedding. Especially when Jesus was the groom. I heard of a surprise party but a surprise wedding. But anyway explain that one.

1. If Jesus was the groom, and it was his responsbility why did he say when his Mother said they were out of wine, what do you want from me?

Since you never answered any other questions how about these easy ones.

 

[rinnie]

No, you are mistaken about my purpose to be here. I am here to claim Jesus as our own. Jesus was Jewish and not Christian. He never had anything to do with Christianity. If Jesus could know what the Christianity of Paul has done to Jesus’ own People, he would turn in his grave.

Ben:

Sorry Ben, Another Lie, Jesus is not dead, and has no grave to turn in. Where is the grave of Jesus Ben.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben what do you not understand. In Matthew 5:17 Jesus did not come to destroy the law, nor to consecrate it, it is untouchable. He came to teach it, and his way of acting gave it its definitive form. No detail of the law may be omitted UNLESS it has be brought to fullfillment. What do you not understand about this?

Rinnie, you neither understand me or even yourself. I know and understand that Jesus did not come to abolish the Law. He said so. But Paul said that he did abolish the Law in his flesh on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15) Paul contradicted Jesus. He went against what Jesus said as if Jesus was lying. That’s my point that you somehow do not want to understand. You have no choice but to choose between Christ or the antichrist. Yes, because to go against Christ is to be antichrist. That’s for you. Not for me, because I don’t believe Jesus was Christ.

Can you not see that until the old law was not fullfilled could he add to it. Why do you refuse to listen to the words (but the PERSON who keeps them and teaches them will be considered great in heaven.

If the Law is still to be observed and taught it’s because it was not abolished. Does it mean you have chosen Christ instead of the antichrist?

Jesus not only fullfilled the law he brought it to a higher standard. Why is that so hard for you to accept. Its like you are saying Jesus took away the ten commandments or something.

No, it’s not hard at all for me to accept. And I am sure that Jesus did not take away the commandments. Paul was the one who tried to, by preaching against Moses. (Acts 21:21)

The Jewish people had the law, yes they did, its like you right now ben, you have the bible, but you have no clue what it says. Sure you can read the words, but you do not understand what are meant by them.

How can you, a Gentile, the reader of the Bible, tell the Jew, the author of the Bible, that he does not have a clue of what it says? Does it make sense at all? If it were not for us, you would not have a Bible to read. If it were not for us, you would still be in the cave worshipping the stone and the fire, or even a block of wood in the shape of a demon. So, be grateful to God that your salvation is from the Jews. (John 4:22) You would not have it if it were not for us.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Sorry Ben, Another Lie, Jesus is not dead, and has no grave to turn in. Where is the grave of Jesus Ben.

Rinnie, your question only tells me that you are beyond repair. Where is the grave of Abraham? Where is the grave of Moses? Where is the grave of David? Where is the grave of the Prophets? Did you get the point? I hope so.

Ben:

 

[rinnie]

Mercygate, sorry to contradict you and the writer of the 4th gospel. John was not there. All the disciples had fled to hide for fear of the Romans. There were only two women before the cross. Mary the mother of Jesus and Mary Magdalene.

Because of the fact that I am Jewish, I have the authority or audacity, whatever you want to call it, to tell you this: Jesus was an Othodox Jew, and it would have been terribly awkward for Jesus to recommend his mother to a male disciple, or his disciple to his mother.

The only logic is that Jesus did recommend his mother to Mary Magdalene who was her daughter-in-law, and the daughter-in-law to her mother-in-law. Therefore Jesus said “Daughter here is your mother” and “Mother, here is your daughter” in the sense that they should take care of each other.

This is Jewish discency and family propriety. But then, why the text mentions John and not Mary Magdalene? Because it would not fall well for the Church to register such a dialogue between Jesus and his mother and wife. That’s a very strong evidence to coroborate my thread about the wedding of Jesus. And I thank you
for having brought it up so that I could contribute with this extra information.

Ben:

Another Lie according to Ben. Lets comtinue:

Johm 19:27 Seeing his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing near her, Jesus said to his Mother Women this is your SON. Then do the disciple he said this is your Mother. And from that hour the disciple took her into HIS home. (Now what Ben, Mary Mad. was really a man? What is that mind going to come up with next. Lets continue.

 

[rinnie]

Folks you are arguing with a man that is changing the words to the Gospels. Who states that at the weeding in Cana that it was Jesus marring Mary Magdelene and she had not n=even met the Lord at that time and that thinks that Mary magdelene and Mary the sister of Martha are the same person.

Now I do know about 2000 years ago but rabbis today do not have to be married and it is my understanding that rabbi means teacher and at the time if Christ there were Priest to preform the religious duties so a rabbi would just have been a teacher in those day.

I also have a sneaking suspension that are Jewish friend here is not Jewish but maybe muslim just from the sound of what he writes:shrug:

Now here is some truth. What about how Jesus married a women he has not even met yet. Ben, how long are you going to ignore that one?

Oh Sorry another Lie by Ben. Jesus married a women he had not even met yet! Gotta go for now, Feel free to join in and put a close to these lies.

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie, your question only tells me that you are beyond repair. Where is the grave of Abraham? Where is the grave of Moses? Where is the grave of David? Where is the grave of the Prophets? Did you get the point? I hope so.

Ben:

Oh now you are going to start on the OT. They lie too? Did you hear that folks. Now Ben what are you saying Moses never died and was buried? David, what never existed or what. THis is getting deeper every minute. Abraham never what existed, so could never have died, so could not be buried. Is that what’s up next. Pleeeeeeeeeeease!

 

[Ben_Masada]

Oh Ben, can you not accept the truth that you must do one lie after another. Thats how lies begin you know. one leads to many.

No Rinnie, but the lies are being told by you and not by me. No wonder since the NT was written, we have to deal with so many lies.

1. Jesus’ Mother was invited to a wedding. The Mother of Jesus was there. Jesus and his disciples HAD ALSO BEEN INVITED.

The Fathers of the Church translated for everyone the same word as invited with the purpose to discard the possibility that Jesus was the Bridegroom, because of the Christ of Paul. But the real Jesus of Nazareth was an observant Jew, and anything not Jewish about him is a lie. So, the NT is full of them.

Okay Ben, lie number one. Why would you say that Jesus and his disciples would be invited to the Wedding. Especially when Jesus was the groom. I heard of a surprise party but a surprise wedding. But anyway explain that one.

Yes, the disciples were invited; why should not they be? But Jesus once there “was called” to take his Bride. That’s a Jewish thing. I don’t expect you to understand. I expect of you to respect, and not name call a Jewish custom a lie. I wonder very much if Jesus himself would approve your attitude against a fellow Jew of his.

1. If Jesus was the groom, and it was his responsbility why did he say when his Mother said they were out of wine, what do you want from me?

What makes you think this is true? It could very well be a lie, in order to cover the truth about what was really going on in Canah. I have answered all your questions more than several times. Your pleasure to deny what I am saying is used as a
weapon against your own lack of logical arguments. I am sorry.

Ben:

 

[rinnie]

No No no no no. Now please go back and read the scripture. Not your words, try the words according to John this time. Please try again. You cannot rewrite the scripture. Again try again.