The Wedding of Jesus

[Ben_Masada]

Jesus said you cannot serve 2 masters. Jesus gave himself fully to the Church. To say that Jesus was married and did not give himself fully to the Church IMO is calling Jesus a Liar.

Rinnie, what are you talking about? What church did Jesus give himself to? Jesus was Jewish for heaven’s sake! Churchs did not exist until Paul started them in the year 60 CE.
You sound like you are desesperately hanging in there somewhere scary to fall. Stop making things up and admit that you might have been wrong all your life.

Jesus is not a Liar. So now Ben, the ball is in your court. Are you saying that Jesus did indeed lie to us?

No, I agree with you. Jesus was not a liar. Lies said about someone don’t make of him a laiar. Liars are those who claim that Jesus was what he never claimed to be.

Jesus gave his life to the Church. He tells us so. To say Jesus did marry would have him contradicting scripture. That is impossible.

Okay, go ahead and mention to me a quotation where Jesus is saying that he gave his life to the Church. I’ll give
you my word that I’ll become a Catholic. How about that? Could you compromise yourself this much? I don’t think so. Do you know why? Because you are not acquainted with your own Bible.

Do you have the gift of the HS Ben. I will ask you now how my Lord Jesus would ask you ben on whos authority are you speaking?

Yes, I do. God has gifted me with the apprehension of His Word when I study it. And I speak from the authority of Psalm 147:19,20 where it says that God granted His Word to Israel only and to no other people on earth. Therefore, my
authority is sanctioned by the Scriptures themselves. And according to Isaiah 2:2,3, when Gentiles want to be instructed in
the Word of God, the address is Zion, the Jewish People. Is it enought for you?

Ben:

 

[wisdomseeker]

**Please be reminded that God created man and gave mankind the free will. It did not mean that man will be perfect and will not make mistakes.

That act of Adam was a mistake, not any wilful disobediance. He was misled and showed weakness. That is in the nature of man. Then Adam learned words of repentance from God and and uttered those words. He was pardoned. Thereafter, there was no sin and no more punishment… It is not correct to carry the sin any further.

It only shows that man is apt to make mistakes and even commit sinful acts. It shows that it in the nature of mankind. Nothing more than that. it is not fair to say that even a one day new born baby is sinful. Nobody will believe you.

The devil (Satan) was different. The whole matter has not been correctly described in the bible. It is well and better described in the Quran. The devil disbeyed God when man was raised to a higher rank. man was here on earth for thousands of years. It is not true as bible says that Adam was the first man. Adam was not the first man. he was however the first man vouchsafed with knowledge (guidance, revelation).

That disobedience of Adam was a mistake. he was tricked by the devil. But nobody misguided the devil when he disobeyed God and did not submit to prostration in honor of Adam. The devil was cheating God for a long time and did not know that God knows everything. Due to that God created mankind and the cheating of the devil (Satan) was exposed.

When God asked devil why he disobeyed, he became furious and blamed God for all things and said that he would keep on opposing the mankind.

It is a long story. I suffice it to say as much now. Thanks.**

yep… now lets ask what was the purpose of animal sacrifice? if it is ok that man sins?

:byzsoc:

 

[ronyodish]

Is there anything in the NT that Jesus was not married? So, we are back to square one. Married to the Church! That’s Pauline rhetoric that butters no bread.

Ben,

There doesn’t need to be an explicit reference to Jesus not being married in the NT Holy Scripture in order for us to believe that he was not married. We know from Holy Tradition and the life of the Church that Jesus was not naturally married to any woman, nor did he naturally generate any children.

Catholic Christians do not draw from Holy Scripture alone their certainty about everything which has been revealed. Therefore both Holy Tradition and Holy Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same sense of loyalty and reverence (See Dei Verbum, 9).

Yes, Jesus was married to the Church. You just asked me if there was anything in the NT about Jesus not being married, and then you blame Paul for saying that the Church is the Bride of Christ! Hellooo, Paul is part of NT Scripture! One must take all the 27 books of the NT together, one can’t pick and choose which ones one likes or doesn’t like. They all stand or fall together. The Pauline letters are just as divinely inspired as the Gospels.

Again! Okay, I repeat my question: Is there anything in the teachings of the Apostles that Jesus was not naturally married? I didn’t think so. Therefore, we are back to square one.

Your question has been answered. Yes, we know from Holy Tradition, which is the Dominical and Apostolic Teachings, that Jesus was not naturally married to any woman. We know further and more explicitly from the written form and subset of Holy Tradition, that is Holy Scripture, that Christ was married to the Church.

Do you know something? Please, don’t take this as an offense, but you don’t have a mind of your own. You can’t think. You have decided that you can see only what your church tells you to.

As a Catholic Christian, I am choosing to accept as my authority on Divine Revelation the teachings of Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition. Likewise, I am choosing the Catholic Church as the final authority in the interpretation of Scripture and Tradition. I accept Christ and His Church, that is, what Catholicism is about.

If I wanted to rely purely on my own efforts, and try strictly on my own mind and will to reach God, apart from God’s grace, then I would never reach Him, because the chasm between us and God is infinite. God has made it easier for us, by bridging the chasm, by coming down to us and revealing Himself in the Person of Christ, and by continuing to sustain us with His grace through His Body, the Church.

Now having been graced, we offer our intelligence, our will, our gifts, and talents, in the service of God in His Church. Now our efforts and thoughts and research are grace-filled, meaning, they have been first purified by God’s grace, and so long as we continue to cooperate, by our free will, with God’s grace, then God will continue to enable us to do what He wants us to do.

Muslims can not understand this, because of their natural and grace-less religion, trying to reach God on their own efforts. Jews can not understand this because they are still under the Mosaic Law and have rejected the grace offered by Christ, that is, the Law of Christ.

Sorry, but your Apostolic succession started with Paul, and the Apostles of Jesus never had anything to do
with it.

Actually, as an Assyrian-Chaldean Catholic, my Particular Church’s Apostolic Succession started with St. Thomas the Apostle and his disciples Sts. Addai and Mari. Because St. Thomas was in full unity and communion with St. Peter, then we are in full communion with the successors of St. Peter, the Popes of Rome and the Latin Catholic Church (aka Roman Catholic Church).

Along with St. Peter, St. Paul died in Rome, and the so the Particular Church at Rome was founded and sealed by the blood of Sts. Peter and Paul. My Particular Church, along with the Particular Syro-Malabar Catholic Church of India, share the same basic tradition. All these Particular Catholic Churches, however, are in full communion with each other, and are one Universal or Catholic Church. All the Apostles including Paul, are part of the heritage of the Catholic Church.

God bless,

Rony

 

[Ben_Masada]

Its not hatred in my heart Ben, it the hatred that I see that you have for my Lord that upsets me. How in the world could Jesus not be a Christian, Do you know how the word Christian came about ben. CHRISTian. That is the word Christ like. Now how in the world could Christ not be a Christian when that is what a Christian is. Explain that one to me. I can’t wait to hear it.

Also show me where Jesus got married. Where is that in SS or Tradition. Show me how the Church can teach us one thing, and show me how you can separate Jesus Christ from the Catholic Church when Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church are one. Jesus is not Jewish. He came from the Jewish faith, and continued on the Jewish faith. It became the Christian faith.

How can Jesus be Jewish, the Jewish faith deny Christ, THey do not believe he is God.

So when you can explain that to me, then we can talk.

Rinnie, I am sorry for your lack of knowledge. Your faith has clouded your mind. Christ is a word from the Greek
which means Messiah. In the years between 58 and 60 Paul, a Hellenistic former Jew apperead preaching that Jesus was Christ, and his followers started being called Christians. But until about 30 years after Jesus had been gone, nobody ever called him Christ. The term was fabricated by Paul, a Greek Jew. Try to understand now why Jesus never had anything to do with Chritians and everything to do with Jews.

About Jesus being married, do you want me to repeat the thread here? Sorry, just click a few posts back and you can read it in the original thread.

Ben:

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie, what are you talking about? What church did Jesus give himself to? Jesus was Jewish for heaven’s sake! Churchs did not exist until Paul started them in the year 60 CE.
You sound like you are desesperately hanging in there somewhere scary to fall. Stop making things up and admit that you might have been wrong all your life.

No, I agree with you. Jesus was not a liar. Lies said about someone don’t make of him a laiar. Liars are those who claim that Jesus was what he never claimed to be.

Okay, go ahead and mention to me a quotation where Jesus is saying that he gave his life to the Church. I’ll give
you my word that I’ll become a Catholic. How about that? Could you compromise yourself this much? I don’t think so. Do you know why? Because you are not acquainted with your own Bible.

Yes, I do. God has gifted me with the apprehension of His Word when I study it. And I speak from the authority of Psalm 147:19,20 where it says that God granted His Word to Israel only and to no other people on earth. Therefore, my
authority is sanctioned by the Scriptures themselves. And according to Isaiah 2:2,3, when Gentiles want to be instructed in
the Word of God, the address is Zion, the Jewish People. Is it enought for you?

Ben:

Okay ben, lets start here you said Liars are those who claim that Jesus was what he never claimed to be. Lets start here, who do you say Jesus claimed to be Ben?

 

[jakasaki]

Rinnie, I am sorry for your lack of knowledge. Your faith has clouded your mind. Christ is a word from the Greek
which means Messiah.

The word Christ, Christos, the **Greek **equivalent of the Hebrew Messias, means “anointed.”

Χριστός (Khristós) meaning “the anointed”

Khristós ( Χριστός ) was used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Mašíaḥ,) (Messiah), meaning “[one who is] anointed, typically with holy anointing oil”

 

[PaulDupre]

But can you show me where Peter was indeed Married. Or is that your assumption. Could it be possible that Peter was a Widow, and his wife has already passed. If he did indeed have a wife at the time, is it not funny her name was not mentioned in that scripture?

5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?

• 1 Corinthians 9:5

At the time Paul wrote this, Peter was married and his wife traveled with him.

 

[jakasaki]

At the time Paul wrote this, Peter was married and his wife traveled with him.

#5
Have we not power to carry about a woman, a sister as well as the rest of the apostles and the brethren of the Lord and Cephas?

We do know that Peter was at one time married because he had a mother in law.

I posted earlier that Peters wife had died, therefore Peter was a widower.

Where is it stated in the Bible that Peter was traveling with his wife when Paul wrote this?

Thanks!

 

[rinnie]

At the time Paul wrote this, Peter was married and his wife traveled with him.

Could you show me that. thank-you. I have never read that in the bible. But would sure love to. Thanks.

 

[PaulDupre]

We do know that Peter was at one time married because he had a mother in law.

I posted earlier that Peters wife had died, therefore Peter was a widower.

Where is it stated in the Bible that Peter was traveling with his wife when Paul wrote this?

Thanks!

It’s right there in the verse I quoted. You do know that Cephas and Peter are the same person, right? Cephas = Aramaic, Peter = Greek.

Let’s try a different translation and maybe you will see it:

1 Corinthians 9:5 (New Living Translation)
5 Don’t we have the right to bring a Christian wife with us as the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers do, and as Peter does?

The verb “does” is present tense. So as Paul was writing this, Peter (Cephas) made it a practice to bring his wife with him when he traveled on apostolic business.

Paul

 

[jakasaki]

It’s right there in the verse I quoted. You do know that Cephas and Peter are the same person, right? Cephas = Aramaic, Peter = Greek.

Let’s try a different translation and maybe you will see it:

The verb “does” is present tense. So as Paul was writing this, Peter (Cephas) made it a practice to bring his wife with him when he traveled on apostolic business.

Paul

Quote: PaulDupre
1 Corinthians 9:5 (New Living Translation)
5 Don’t we have the right to bring a Christian wife with us as the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers do, and as Peter does?

9: jakasaki
5 Have we not power to carry about a woman, a sister as well as the rest of the apostles and the brethren of the Lord and Cephas?
newadvent.org/bible/1co009.htm

We obviously have the same verse somewhat worded in a slightly different way. I am not in a possition as this point to debate/correct or challege.

I will leave it to the group/members since I use the newadvent.org/bible/1co009.htm for reference. But I also need to mention in all fairness, I also use:

vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/_INDEX.HTM

For a back up reference.

I remain humble in this discussion… Thanks!

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Hi

I think it is due to the coutesy of Paul that our Catholic friends read the Bible upside down, in my opion. They advise the Bible students to first read the NTBible first and then the OTBible.

Our clever Paul knew that if the learners would first read the OTBible; then they would not perhaps accept the NTBible blindly. Without the OTBible; NTBible become meaningless in my opinion. To me, Paul gets exposed.

I love Jesus , Mary and Second Coming 1835-1908

Thanks

See here is were you show your true ignorance. At the time of Paul there was not New Testament. He never told people to Read the New Testament as there was only the Scripture of what is now known as the Old testament. The New Testament starts with the Four Gospels ( non of which were written by Paul) the the Letter by Paul and the other Apostles to one another or to groups( churches) on how to live the the Faith.

There is number of references throughout the New Testament to Jewish Scripture to direct the faithful on why we believe what we do.

You and Ben should stop and read the Christian Bible with an open mind be for commenting on it. If you did you would know how ridiculous the things you say sound.

Ben has one thing about half right it was the Romans that executed Jesus, but it was the Priest of the Sanhedrin that took Jesus to Pilate demanding his execution. So both Jew and gentile are equal in the killing of the innocent life of Jesus. Also we as Christian must do as Jesus asked when he cried out to God “forgive them father for they know not what they do”

Back to the OP now again Jesus was not married, could not have married Mary Magdalene at the weeding of Cana as he had not met her yet. And yes some of the Apostles were married Peter for one.

 

[rinnie]

Okay ben, lets start here you said Liars are those who claim that Jesus was what he never claimed to be. Lets start here, who do you say Jesus claimed to be Ben?

Still waiting for your response Ben.

 

[rinnie]

**You have made more complications. You mean Jesus is Christ like.

CHRISTian. That is the word Christ like.**

It means Jesus is Christ like. If he is a christian then he is christ like. That means he is not christ. Is that so? Every one knows that Jesus was a Jew. He was all for the Jews. He never uttered a word against the Jewish teachings. Rather he tried to explain and to improve upon the practical applications of the Jewish teachings. Read those things about washing, eating and about sabath and about giving tax to Caesar and about helping the poor.

He was not starting any new religion.

Ben is pressing the point that there is nothing in the bibleNT to say that Jesus was not married. What do you say about that?

No I mean what I said Jesus is Christ. No one ever said that Jesus started a new Religion. How could the Catholic Faith be a new Religion. The Jewish teachings which are the OT are as much a Catholic teaching as the NT. Jesus fullfilled the OT and continued the Jewish teachings. Its some of the Jewish people did not accept Jesus.

And please do not put words in my mouth. I said to be Christian is to be Christ Like. Christian comes from the word Christ. If you are a follower of Christ you are considered a Christian. So again do not try to twist my words. My words are quite clear now for you I hope.

And you are correct Jesus never uttered a word against the Jewish teaching. IT was against the Jewish People.

If I were to seek my own glory my glory would not be worth nothing. In fact my glory is conferred by the Father by the one of whom you say He is our God although YOU DO NOT KNOW HIM. But I KNOW HIM. and if I were to say I DO NOT KNOW HIM I should be a liar, AS YOU YOURSELFS ARE. But I do know him, and I keep his word your Father Abraham rejoiced to think the he would See MY DAY. HE SAW AND WAS GLAD.

Then the Jews said you are not fifty yet you have seen Abraham, Jesus replied

In All Truth I tell you before Abraham ever was I AM.

Then they started throwing stones at him.
You heard the words of Jesus Christ. I AM!

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by PaulDupre:
At the time Paul wrote this, Peter was married and his wife traveled with him

Could you show me that. thank-you. I have never read that in the bible. But would sure love to. Thanks.

Hi

I think now our friend PaulDupre would rush to some rejected Gospels (Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Barnabas etc), in my opinion. When our Catholics friends are in a fix; then they normally rush to the rejected Gospels for rescue, in my opinion. Please don’t mind

I love Jesus, Mary and Second Coming 1835-1908

Thanks

 

[redrosetea]

we know you specialize in trashing Christian scripture, we got that, but how, under the influence of what drug, do you get off identifying Mary, the mother of Jesus, with Mary of Bethany, sister of Martha and Lazarus? and where do you pick up your extra-biblical details. You do realize that Cana in Galilee is nowhere near Bethany.

oh why are we wasting our time.

thanks at least for posting on the proper forum–although we need a “I made up my own religion” forum for you folks

If we started trashing his religion he would be screaming we were anti semetic

He is only here to cause strife

 

[paarsurrey]

Rinnie
No, I agree with you. Jesus was not a liar. Lies said about someone don’t make of him a laiar. Liars are those who claim that Jesus was what he never claimed to be.

Ben:

Hi

What a definition, our friend Ben Masada has brought in, in my opinion?

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Ben,

There doesn’t need to be an explicit reference to Jesus not being married in the NT Holy Scripture in order for us to believe that he was not married. We know from Holy Tradition and the life of the Church that Jesus was not naturally married to any woman, nor did he naturally generate any children.
Rony

Hi

So, that makes Jesus not so perfect a man as were Adam and Moses; they used all body and soul in service of God Allah YHWH, and Jesus was not confident enough to use them all, in my opinion.

Do you say that Jesus did not spent his life naturally? Perhaps

I love Jesus, Mary and Second Coming 1835-1908

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Actually, as an Assyrian-Chaldean Catholic, my Particular Church’s Apostolic Succession started with **St. Thomas the Apostle **and his disciples Sts. Addai and Mari. Because St. Thomas was in full unity and communion with St. Peter, then we are in full communion with the successors of St. Peter, the Popes of Rome and the Latin Catholic Church (aka Roman Catholic Church).

My Particular Church, along with the Particular Syro-Malabar Catholic Church of India, share the same basic tradition.
God bless,

Rony

Hi friend ronyodish!

May be you can help find the Gospel of Matthew in Syriac/Aramaic that was gifted in India to a Clergy at Rome.

I think you know the story.

I love Jesus, Mary and Second Coming 1835-1908

Thanks

 

[swariffin]

Hi

I think it is due to the coutesy of Paul that our Catholic friends read the Bible upside down, in my opion. They advise the Bible students to first read the NTBible first and then the OTBible.

Our clever Paul knew that if the learners would first read the OTBible; then they would not perhaps accept the NTBible blindly. Without the OTBible; NTBible become meaningless in my opinion. To me, Paul gets exposed.

I love Jesus , Mary and Second Coming 1835-1908

Thanks

Then Paul is stupid since the probability of people reading the OT is still there. If Paul is clever as you like to believe, he would have declared that the OT is abrogated and corrupted, like Muhammad said. Don’t bother to give explanation or proof. A simple saying that OT is corrupted is enough.