The Wedding of Jesus

[Ben_Masada]

Hi

I think they would have to drop the claim with that; that Jesus was a perfect model for the humans. He cannot be a model human being as father, fathering his sons and daughters, in my opinion. He cannot be a model as a good husband, as he he had no wives, as our Catholic friend won’t let him have some, in my opinion. He cannot be a model as son to a physical father; as he had in fact none. Already there are things in the Bible; that don’t make him a model son to his mother, in my opinion . He could not be a Model head of the family; as he never had any dependents, in my opinion.

So, our Christian friends make him a non-model for human beings, in my opinion. These are very important faculties for a model man; and there are many more, i don’t want to mention them, please. There was no fault with the man Jesus; the fault is perhaps with the Paul/s who projected him erroneously, in my opinion.

Jesus could assert himself for his claims and reasons; he needed no Paul/s, in my opinion; **I love Jesus **for his wisdom. Jesus feared nobody except GodAllahYHWH whose humble servant Jesus was, in my opinion. I also love the blessed Mary.

Thanks

Paarsurrey, believe me, I was half-way in the writing of this post of yours when my eyes were caught by what you have written. I confess the brilliance of this post of yours. I couldn’t do it better. Only the blind can’t see the lesson to learn from this post of yours Congratulations!

Ben: :clapping:

 

[rinnie]

Trap is just a joke. But anyways, you are not trapped because you are dishonestly covering half of the truth about Matthew 5:17-19. Jesus left it very clear in verse 19 that whoever breaks the least signiticant of these commandments and teaches others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of God. That’s another way to say that he or she shall be condemned. So, Jesus came to fulfill the Law and to make sure we all do the same. Therefore, where did Paul get the idea that the Law was abolished on the cross? Anyone can see that he was
contradicting Jesus himself. Contra means Anti. And if Jesus was Christ, This sounds like Antichrist. Don’t you think so?

Ben:

Correction Ben, not anyone only you. So tell me Ben, spit it out. What does that mean. If Jesus was Christ thats sounds like antichrist. You tell me what you are saying. I will not put words in your mouth, I will let you explain to me just what you just said. Be a man and say exactly what you mean by those words.

Black and white this time ben. Who do you claim Jesus was?

 

[rinnie]

Trap is just a joke. But anyways, you are not trapped because you are dishonestly covering half of the truth about Matthew 5:17-19. Jesus left it very clear in verse 19 that whoever breaks the least signiticant of these commandments and teaches others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of God. That’s another way to say that he or she shall be condemned. So, Jesus came to fulfill the Law and to make sure we all do the same. Therefore, where did Paul get the idea that the Law was abolished on the cross? Anyone can see that he was
contradicting Jesus himself. Contra means Anti. And if Jesus was Christ, This sounds like Antichrist. Don’t you think so?

Ben:

Wrong. again, You did not catch me in a trap the same reasons they could not trap Jesus. Because when you speak the truth there is not trap.

 

[rinnie]

How about the wedding Ben, I am still waiting for you to respond to that too. It is true isn’t it Ben, You are afraid of the truth!

 

[Ben_Masada]

Wrong. again, You did not catch me in a trap the same reasons they could not trap Jesus. Because when you speak the truth there is not trap.

Whatever you say rinnie. I give you the uphand.
You have won. Congratulations!

 

[Ben_Masada]

Correction Ben, not anyone only you. So tell me Ben, spit it out. What does that mean. If Jesus was Christ thats sounds like antichrist. You tell me what you are saying. I will not put words in your mouth, I will let you explain to me just what you just said. Be a man and say exactly what you mean by those words.

Black and white this time ben. Who do you claim Jesus was?

Very simply Rinnie, you guys claim that Jesus was Christ, right? Right. So, Christ said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law.” (Mat. 5:17)

Now, let’t go to Ephesians 2:15. Paraphrasing, Paul said that’s not true what Jesus said, because the Law was abolished on the cross, and that Christ was the end of the Law. (Rom. 10:4)

In my opinion, Paul was contradicting Jesus. Contra means Anti. Is that so or not? I guess your answer is yes. If Jesus, as you claim, was Christ and Paul contradicted him, what can I deduce from here? But if you say I am wrong, go ahead, you are right. I am wrong, and you are the winner on this one. As long as we remain friends.

Ben:

 

[rinnie]

Very simply Rinnie, you guys claim that Jesus was Christ, right? Right. So, Christ said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law.” (Mat. 5:17)

Now, let’t go to Ephesians 2:15. Paraphrasing, Paul said that’s not true what Jesus said, because the Law was abolished on the cross, and that Christ was the end of the Law. (Rom. 10:4)

In my opinion, Paul was contradicting Jesus. Contra means Anti. Is that so or not? I guess your answer is yes. If Jesus, as you claim, was Christ and Paul contradicted him, what can I deduce from here? But if you say I am wrong, go ahead, you are right. I am wrong, and you are the winner on this one. As long as we remain friends.

Ben:

No Ben of course you continue to put words in the mouth of Everyone. Today it is Paul. Jesus taught the true meaning of the law. You cannot understand the true meaning apart from Jesus.

He not only came to fullfill the law, he came to teach what others like you though they knew. He never changed a thing. He was the whole goal of the law. To explain it, to teach it, to fullfill it.

Read on Ben, For there is no distinction between jew and greek the same Lord is Lord of all.

 

[rinnie]

Very simply Rinnie, you guys claim that Jesus was Christ, right? Right. So, Christ said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law.” (Mat. 5:17)

Now, let’t go to Ephesians 2:15. Paraphrasing, Paul said that’s not true what Jesus said, because the Law was abolished on the cross, and that Christ was the end of the Law. (Rom. 10:4)

In my opinion, Paul was contradicting Jesus. Contra means Anti. Is that so or not? I guess your answer is yes. If Jesus, as you claim, was Christ and Paul contradicted him, what can I deduce from here? But if you say I am wrong, go ahead, you are right. I am wrong, and you are the winner on this one. As long as we remain friends.

Ben:

If making friends is your goal ben, you are going about it in the wrong way. Let me quote 1 Tim. 6:3 for you

Anyone who teaches anything different and does not keep to the sound teaching which is that of our Lord Jesus Christ, the doctrine which is in accordance with true religion, is proud and has not understanding, but rather a weakness for questioning everything and arguing about words.

That is what you seem to keep doing Ben, and I for one do not understand it. Why would you want to take the words of God, Yes God Ben, and make up your own distorted teachings. I do not understand. What is it you feel you have to gain.

I feel this is not about winning or losing, as it is a joke to you I can see, but the Truth. Its about the Truth Ben. And the truth has been revealed you indeed answered my question. ANd in part showed who the liar is. Jesus did indeed prove he was God, so you Ben are the liar. I am sorry but those were your words not mine.

May God have mercy on you, and for me also Ben for letting this go so far. But its just so hard to let someone tear up you Lord and Savior and just stand by and watch.

 

[Ben_Masada]

No Ben of course you continue to put words in the mouth of Everyone. Today it is Paul. Jesus taught the true meaning of the law. You cannot understand the true meaning apart from Jesus.

He not only came to fullfill the law, he came to teach what others like you though they knew. He never changed a thing. He was the whole goal of the law. To explain it, to teach it, to fullfill it.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Anyone who teaches anything different and does not keep to the sound teaching which is that of our Lord Jesus Christ, the doctrine which is in accordance with true religion, is proud and has not understanding, but rather a weakness for questioning everything and arguing about words…

.

Again, when Jesus taught that the Law remains
to be observed by everyone according to Matthew 5:19, and Paul
taught that the Law was abolished on the cross according to Ephesians 2:15, tell me, are not these two teachings defferent?
Is Paul keeping with the sound teaching of Jesus?

Please, don’t think I am joking! Help me understand this paradox, because that’s what it sounds to me: A paradox. Thanks.

Ben:

 

[rinnie]

Again, when Jesus taught that the Law remains
to be observed by everyone according to Matthew 5:19, and Paul
taught that the Law was abolished on the cross according to Ephesians 2:15, tell me, are not these two teachings defferent?
Is Paul keeping with the sound teaching of Jesus?

Please, don’t think I am joking! Help me understand this paradox, because that’s what it sounds to me: A paradox. Thanks.

Ben: /

Yes but you do not understand what he meant. The masaic law gave the jews privileged status and separated them from the gentiles. Jesus abolished THIS law by fulfilling it once for ALL on the cross…

Col 2:14 The elabrate metaphor here about how God canceled the legal claims against us through Christs cross depicts not Christ being nailed to the cross by men but the BOND which its legal claim being nailed to the cross by God.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Again, when Jesus taught that the Law remains

to be observed by everyone according to Matthew 5:19, and Paul
taught that the Law was abolished on the cross according to Ephesians 2:15, tell me, are not these two teachings defferent?
Is Paul keeping with the sound teaching of Jesus?

Please, don’t think I am joking! Help me understand this paradox, because that’s what it sounds to me: A paradox. Thanks.

Ben:

No Ben, the old law was abolished concerning what sort of meat to eat, what sort of hand washings, and kosher etc…
See, Ben, these things were put in place to preserve mortal life as long as possible - because clean things were necessary at that time as a defense against germs and meats that needed cooked a lot longer and the interesting aspect to all of that is how it ‘kept man from certain death’ - which would be caused by filth…or illness.

NOW - the flip side would be the death of the soul - the life of the soul. Jesus [God] came to save us.
That’s what the Messiah would be and has been.
**Give us salvation for our soul. Not the human body that dies anyway and **which wouldnt amount to too much.

Now when He come to fulfil the Law - that is to take all the prophecies and fulfill them so we are saved - He did so.
And again - according to how the Synagogue and Temple worked - would be foreshadows to His Church - their liturgy - their Eucharist - which correlates to the bread from Heaven - the manna. [and we could get into that more…if you want], the Tabernachle, the priesthood.

Anyway - when Paul says He abolished the law - Jesus
did in fact abolish the law in that cleanliness wasn’t His concern. His concern was the souls’ cleanliness and the souls life…not the mortal remains which will die no matter what.

God came for the soul - to bring it life, whereas Moses tried to preserve the mortal life - by living longer.
God v man.

Man’s laws - that which is for the body.
God’s Laws - that which is good for the soul.

Christ came and ‘washed’ away our sins with His blood. Just as the blood of the lamb at Passover kept the angel of death from taking life.

Not sure - starting at the point you are at - you can understand how God sees us… since you have been heavily indoctrinated with what man needs for human mortal life.

And we must admit that because we now have freezers, fridges, microwaves, stoves, and so forth and hand sanitizers, antibiotic gels, a variety of soaps, and better ways to cook all foods, that you must surely realise our times are different and none of the ‘laws’ of cleanliness really amount too much for keeping us alive in the way we need to be alive. THAT IS IN THE AFTER LIFE… that’s the real life.

Which is more important?
Keeping your mortal hands cleaned that will eventually die anyway…
Or keeping your soul preserved to enter Heaven?

That’s the specific difference between the Mosiac Laws - and God’s Laws.

What is the most important of all Laws?
‘Love God with your whole heart and soul, and love your neighbor as you would yourself.’

IF you can do that - then you have already mastered God’s Laws which are the Ten Commandments.

The Church - well, the whole preparation for the Church is in the OT. Every careful detail was a preparation for His Eucharist - sacraments and His Church which would carry on til the end of time - His precepts - His Laws. Not man’s.

 

[simplynoone]

I have been watching this for ahwile and enjoying. I agree with the Jew. He makes more sense, but I have to wonder, why make a circus out of it? They are not going to change their minds so why all the fuss?

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

If making friends is your goal ben, you are going about it in the wrong way. Let me quote 1 Tim. 6:3 for you

Anyone who teaches anything different and does not keep to the sound teaching which is that of our Lord Jesus Christ, the doctrine which is in accordance with true religion, is proud and has not understanding, but rather a weakness for questioning everything and arguing about words.

That is what you seem to keep doing Ben, and I for one do not understand it. Why would you want to take the words of God, Yes God Ben, and make up your own distorted teachings. I do not understand. What is it you feel you have to gain.

I feel this is not about winning or losing, as it is a joke to you I can see, but the Truth. Its about the Truth Ben. And the truth has been revealed you indeed answered my question. ANd in part showed who the liar is. Jesus did indeed prove he was God, so you Ben are the liar. I am sorry but those were your words not mine.

May God have mercy on you, and for me also Ben for letting this go so far. But its just so hard to let someone tear up you Lord and Savior and just stand by and watch.

you are wasting your time with Ben he will not answer questions he will not acknowledge when shown he has made an error in his story there fore I placed him on ignore so as i do not have to read his drivel any longer.

I would so all should do the same.

peace brother

 

[WarriorAngel]

Agree or not, they are here obviously because they are curious to know why and how.

It wouldn’t make sense to join a forum unless:
A) You wanted to proove someone wrong and had an agenda.
B) You wanted to find out what they believe.

And sometimes using sock puppets is fun, and sometimes its not.

Nevertheless, Ben is confused as to which law Paul was referring to.

AND Ben now knows because i already explained the differences in the laws.

The Covenants - Jesus fulfilled…the Laws of the priesthood, the prophecies and scriptures He fulfilled.

The laws that dont mean a hill of beans [except in those times due to filth conditions] were the Mosiac - hand washing laws and diet plans.

Paul had it right too - because when Peter was hungry three times he saw a message from heaven saying ‘Do NOT call what I have made unclean. Get up and eat.’

So raise your hands - who sees how the Law of God Jesus spoke about differs from the laws Paul spoke about.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

wow… this is still going on?

 

[rinnie]

Agree or not, they are here obviously because they are curious to know why and how.

It wouldn’t make sense to join a forum unless:
A) You wanted to proove someone wrong and had an agenda.
B) You wanted to find out what they believe.

And sometimes using sock puppets is fun, and sometimes its not.

Nevertheless, Ben is confused as to which law Paul was referring to.

AND Ben now knows because i already explained the differences in the laws.

The Covenants - Jesus fulfilled…the Laws of the priesthood, the prophecies and scriptures He fulfilled.

The laws that dont mean a hill of beans [except in those times due to filth conditions] were the Mosiac - hand washing laws and diet plans.

Paul had it right too - because when Peter was hungry three times he saw a message from heaven saying ‘Do NOT call what I have made unclean. Get up and eat.’

So raise your hands - who sees how the Law of God Jesus spoke about differs from the laws Paul spoke about.

God only knows what they are up to. But the bottom line is we all know the truth. Jesus never changed the law he fullfilled it. I guess they did not accept him then, why would they accept him now. Thats okay we all tried, in vain I am sure but our heart was in the right place. And our dear Jesus knows that. God Bless you all and good night.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I hold out that Ben may be given the grace to see.
At least I am praying for the folks in here.

If I can be of service, I would willingly help.

I just hope if Ben has any questions - i am able to help - or i am able to find the answers somehow.

Fortunately i have been debating online for quite a number of years that very few debates come as a surprise to me that I havent already researched.

Peace rinnie.

 

[simplynoone]

those coming off as arrogant and close minded are those who are the catholics here, for th most part anyway. I have a question, when one accepts this god Jesus into their life, is it a requirement to turn off any and extra avenues of thought? If so, then you can count me out. What is so wrong with Jesus getting married? It hasn’t worked out well for the priests of the catholic church to abstain. Seems like the Jew makes an interesting point.

 

[WarriorAngel]

those coming off as arrogant and close minded are those who are the catholics here, for th most part anyway. I have a question, when one accepts this god Jesus into their life, is it a requirement to turn off any and extra avenues of thought? If so, then you can count me out. What is so wrong with Jesus getting married? It hasn’t worked out well for the priests of the catholic church to abstain. Seems like the Jew makes an interesting point.

Extra avenues? Care to explian that?

I didnt catch the argument that it didnt fare well for priests who abstain… but it comes as no surprise someone would mention that and i am guessing they think that pedophilia is proof.
Which is wrong to think.

Pedophilia doesnt crop up from lonliness. Priests could easily put on regular clothes and go into areas far enough away from home to seek companionship from the bar scene. Pedophilia is a mental illness - its a disordered lust. A perversion that has nothing to do with the priesthood.
ANY man who could use the ‘cloth’ as a measure of ‘trust’ could enter the priesthood to do those things. AND or could just finally give into temptation after becoming a priest.

Prior to Pope Gregory - there wasnt a ban on marriage - but because the priests were procreating in large amounts and worrying about tending to the children - they had more secular concerns and they would also favor their children and give them things of the Church that wasnt theirs to give. [and the list of abuses goes on]
So as Paul said - the single man thinks of what pleases the Lord and the married man thinks about what pleases the wife.
So either way - priests not marrying is not a doctrine it is a disipline, and it is only in the Roman Rite that they abstain, but in all the other Catholic Rites they are able to marry.

You cannot be Catholic if you cannot believe that Jesus is God.

Consume that - take it in. The Messiah - the Annointed One came to earth as Isaias said - and He was born to us - to Save the world.

Isaias said He would be called God Almighty !!

He did NOT come to procreate with the created.

So if you do not have a point other than to be disruptive, you need to think how you approach the forum.