The Wedding of Jesus

[Valke2]

BEN I see the Muslim love your post but I do not think Christian like all your blaspheming just my opinion

As a Jew I’m not too crazy about the posts either. I’m not sure why Ben is doing cartwheels to “reclaim Jesus” for the Jews. He doesn’t believe Jesus was God and I don’t think he believes Jesus was the Messiah. So I’m not sure what position he is claiming Jesus should have in Judaism. It seems to be just a different way of arguing against what christians believe Jesus was rather than arguing that Jesus was releveant to Judaism.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

.

The Jews problem with Paul is not that he was once a Jew. Putting aside the validity of Paul’s credentials, Paul is seen as bringing in a large element of hatred for the Jews that we believe helped cause a lot of problems for us.

Why would Paul be a problem for the Jews when he was a loyal disciple of Christ? Is that why?

 

[Valke2]

Why would Paul be a problem for the Jews when he was a loyal disciple of Christ? Is that why?

I just stated why I thought Jews have a problem with Paul. In fact that was the post you replied to.

 

[planten]

Why would Paul be a problem for the Jews when he was a loyal disciple of Christ? Is that why?

**Please let me know when was Saul a disciple of Jesus. You are taking things too far, assuming things, calling Saul a loyal disciple.

He never met Jesus. He never met mother Mary. I will not say what he did to the teachings of Jesus.

**

 

[Ben_Masada]

As a Jew I’m not too crazy about the posts either. I’m not sure why Ben is doing cartwheels to “reclaim Jesus” for the Jews. He doesn’t believe Jesus was God and I don’t think he believes Jesus was the Messiah. So I’m not sure what position he is claiming Jesus should have in Judaism. It seems to be just a different way of arguing against what christians believe Jesus was rather than arguing that Jesus was releveant to Judaism.

Valke2, If I believed Jesus was God, I would not be a Jew. Equally, if I believed Jesus was the Messiah, I would not be a Jew. Jesus was an Orthodox practicing Jew. My point is to make Christians stick to Paul, who was the one to found Christianity and not Jesus.

Jesus gave origin to the Sect of the Nazarenes, a Jewish sect that had nothing to do with Christianity. I want Christians to take the responsibility for their mistake of having caused so much pain to the Jewish People in the name of Jesus, when Jesus never had anything to do with it.

Perhaps you are right by saying that Jesus was not relevant to Judaism. But many of us do not know that and are perishing for lack of knowledge. I mean, they are leaving Judaism for Christianity by the thousands, when it should be the other way around.

Priority with me is not to convert Christians, but to reach Jews who have been misled for lack of knowledge. That I know, as a result of my work, two former Jews have returned to Judaism and five Gentiles have converted to Judaism. Of these five Gentiles, two have got married and produced each one two Jewish children. It means, I have contributed with 11 souls into Judaism. That’s what makes me stick to this “mission.”

 

[LilyM]

**Please let me know when was Saul a disciple of Jesus. You are taking things too far, assuming things, calling Saul a loyal disciple.

He never met Jesus. He never met mother Mary. I will not say what he did to the teachings of Jesus.

**

As opposed to Muhammad, I suppose - never mind that HE lived all of 600+ years after Jesus, Mary and Saul, but nonetheless would’ve called himself loyal to Jesus’ teachings.

 

[Valke2]

Valke2, If I believed Jesus was God, I would not be a Jew. Equally, if I believed Jesus was the Messiah, I would not be a Jew. Jesus was an Orthodox practicing Jew. My point is to make Christians stick to Paul, who was the one to found Christianity and not Jesus.

Ok. I thought you had described yourself as a messianic Jew in a prior post but I am obviously wrong. I don’t think Christians would disagree that Paul influenced christianity. And I recall that there is some dicussion about an intitial dispute as to whether or not gentiles had to undergo circumcision in which Paul won out on.

Jesus gave origin to the Sect of the Nazarenes, a Jewish sect that had nothing to do with Christianity. I want Christians to take the responsibility for their mistake of having caused so much pain to the Jewish People in the name of Jesus, when Jesus never had anything to do with it.

You really got five gentiles to convert to Judaism? That is defintely worth a new thread, IMO. I am impressed with your influence on these people’s lives. Thank God for you. Maybe it is just that your posts come off as a bit more confontational than your arguments in face to face discussions. I apologize if overreacted to some of your posts.

 

[jblake]

Ben Masada;:

Thomas was one of the Apostles of Jesus. When Jesus was gone, the Apostles organized the Sect of the Nazarenes on behalf of Jesus of Nazareth.

it would be useful if you could cite something to support that claim. Thus far, you have failed to do so.

When Jesus was gone, Paul was about 5 years old. Jesus was gone in the year 30 CE. How’s that?

Please explain how somebody who was born between 0 BC and 10 BC is five years old at 30 CE. More to the point, I’m sure that there are millions of women who’d like to be able to reduce their apparent age by thirty plus years.

Therefore, Paul was about a teenager. Let’s say 15 years old. The year was 40 CE. (Acts 7:58)

The Greek word there is νεανίας, which refers to “young man”. This could refer to any age between twenty and forty.
Chrysostom claims Paul was 35.
BTW, the evidence suggests that Stephen was stoned within six months of the crucifixion.

(Gal. 1:18) At 33 or 34 years of age in the year 58 CE,
he decided to go up to Jerusalem

AD 57 was Paul’s second trip to Jerusalem as a Christian.

(Acts 9:28) Within 15 days only the local Jews were on an uproar to kill him because he was preaching apostasy in Jerusalem.

That describes Paul’s first trip as a Christian. That would have been in AD 33.

Paul was about 48 years of age in the year 68 or 69

Chrysostom states Paul died in 68 AD, having served God for 35 years.

jonathon

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

**I still don’t get the obsession with St. Paul from Ben Masada… **

 

[jblake]

Valke2;:

seems to be just a different way of arguing against what christians believe Jesus was

One of the Pre-Nicence Fathers wrote about the theology Ben is espousing.
Valke2;:

What if someone were to argue that “Rabbinic Judaism” is falsely based on the assumption that the oral torah wa given directly from Hashem to Moses when in fact it was a man made evolution of interpetation of scripture? I wouldn’t expect that argument to sway you or anyone else against normative Judaism.

Karaite Judaism claims that the oral Torah was an invention of Rabbinical Judaism, but preserved by Karaite Judaism, as an example of Jewish heresy.

You really got five gentiles to convert to Judaism?

How impressive that is, depends upon which branch of which group they were converted to.

Conversion process:

• Jewish group a) Pay us and you are declared to be a Jew;
• Jewish group b) Study this, say the prayers every day, and talk with me at least once a week. Twelve or so months later one is a Jew;
• Jewish group c) Study this, and we’ll see. Forty years later “When can I be Jew” Study some more. Forty years later. You have enough learning to begin studying our beliefs. Forty years later. Now you know enough to become a Jew;
• Jewish group d) I want to be a Jew. Possible, but it will be very difficult. These are the requirements if your father was Jewish; Oh, he wasn’t a Jew. We will have to think about that. Five hundred years later. We have decided that you can convert. Oh, you are dead. Too bad;
• Samaritan group a) I want to be a Samaritan:
• • Sorry, you are male, and your father was not a Samaritan. Not possible;
• • You are a female, and your father was not a Samaritan;
• ** Was your father an Orthodox Rabbinical Jew?
• *** No. Sorry, not possible;
• *** Yes. Is your to-be husband a Samaritan: No. Not possible;
• *** Yes. Is your to-be husband a Samaritan: Yes. Here are the minimum requirements. Adhere to them for a year, and you will be considered;
• Noachide group a) Study, and practice this material for three years, then swear an oath of loyalty;
• Noachide group b) Adhere to these commandments. Break this commandment every day. Do not read the Torah, the Talmud, or any other book in, or translated from Hebrew or Aramaic;
• Nazarene group a) Let us baptise you in the name of God the Father;
• Nazarene group b) Let us baptise you in the name of Jesus, our Saviour;
• Nazarene group c) Let us baptise you in the name of God the Father and Jesus the Son;
• Nazarene group d) Let us baptise you in the name of god the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit;
• Nazarene group e) Here are the requirements, as found in the Torah;

jonathon

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

Hi friend S J Thaikattil

I don’t mind such little things.

May GodAllahYHWH bless you!

Where you had been all these days ?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Hi friend, PaarSurrey!

Thanks for your good wishes.

Let me tell you how much I admire your communication
style, even if I consider the stuff you write complete nonsense from a Christian perspective.

Where was I? I was given time out for calling you and Chaldean Rite heretics! A break wasn’t a bad idea at all. It gave me time to think whether I really wanted to remain indignant about the way you and Ben talk about Jesus’ wedding with such conviction, with no Scriptural backing at all, interpreting a religion that is not your own.

I tend to react with anger when I read such distortion of Jesus’ life as you and Ben Masada are writing. So you see why I have to be extremely careful while responding to your posts in the future?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

**Please let me know when was Saul a disciple of Jesus. You are taking things too far, assuming things, calling Saul a loyal disciple.

He never met Jesus. He never met mother Mary. I will not say what he did to the teachings of Jesus.

**

Saul of Tarsus was an enemy of Jesus. Paul the Pharisee Lawyer who became a Christian was a disciple of Jesus.

See Acts 9:1-19 about Sauls conversion to Christianity;

See also Acts 13:4-12 about Saul and Paul being referred to as the same person.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

**Please let me know when was Saul a disciple of Jesus. You are taking things too far, assuming things, calling Saul a loyal disciple.

He never met Jesus. He never met mother Mary. I will not say what he did to the teachings of Jesus.

**

**Paul as he is now known, since he changed his name to a gentile name, was a follower of Christ. He never physically met Christ (until his death), but he heard the voice of Christ who spoke to him and asked him “Saul, why do you persecute me.” Christ then blinded him for three days until He sent Barnabas to open his eyes. And boy were his eyes opened… **

 

[planten]

Saul of Tarsus was an enemy of Jesus. Paul the Pharisee Lawyer who became a Christian was a disciple of Jesus.

See Acts 9:1-19 about Sauls conversion to Christianity;

See also Acts 13:4-12 about Saul and Paul being referred to as the same person.

yes, thanks. Paul and saul are the same person. Name is change to disconnect saul fromhis previous bad deeds. I do not go much for the acts because they do not belong to Jesus.

 

[Ben_Masada]

**I still don’t get the obsession with St. Paul from Ben Masada… **

Read Acts 21:21. That’s the reason for my obsession with Paul.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

You missed the sentence in my post when I said
that my priority is to reach Jews who have been misled by Chritianity. It just happened that five Gentiles from the Seventh-Day Adventist got interested and went through their conversion process of 8 months and became Jewish. Judaism indeed does not seek converts, but we don’t prevent a Gentile who wants to become Jewish from joining the Faith of Jesus.

Ben:

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

yes, thanks. Paul and saul are the same person. Name is change to disconnect saul fromhis previous bad deeds. I do not go much for the acts because they do not belong to Jesus.

The Acts of the Apostles are the result of what Jesus did for you and me. These all fall in proper order for God is not a God of chaos. The name change has to do with the new life Saul has changed from being a murderer to a lover of his enemies, a Learned Jew who lived and died to set the Gentiles free from natural laws that could not dictate their freedom in God.

This book of Acts of the Apostles give witness and testimony to Jesus himself. Praise be Jesus Christ both now and forever

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

You missed the sentence in my post when I said
that my priority is to reach Jews who have been misled by Chritianity. It just happened that five Gentiles from the Seventh-Day Adventist got interested and went through their conversion process of 8 months and became Jewish. Judaism indeed does not seek converts, but we don’t prevent a Gentile who wants to become Jewish from joining the Faith of Jesus.

Ben:

Great Job Ben; Koodo’s to you For clarification you did not convert Christians. Seventh day adventist are not Christian as they claim to be. These claim to the seventh day Sabbath Rest as their mark from God. If you can covert these to their wish of honoring the Sabbath I see a happy ending for both sides. But now they have to deny Jesus Christ as their Lord and God and replace him with a day to honor? See why these are not considered Christians. A Christian is one who lives and dies for his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, just like Paul, Peter, Barnabas, James and all the other saints and martyrs to date in the Catholic church.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Read Acts 21:21. That’s the reason for my obsession with Paul.

Ben:

Your obsession of Paul has nothing to do with Paul’s teachings. In fact Paul who was Saul was a persecuter of Christians. Did you approve of Paul’s actions and teachings about the Law then?

No, Paul obeyed God not man! Paul sacrificed his whole career and life for the “Truth” of God. Paul proved he obeyed and Loved God with all his heart, mind and strength by loving his enemies the Gentiles a “true” teaching of Jesus Christ.

Tell me Ben do you love God as to love Gentiles as yourself? as the first century Jewish Pharisee Paul did?

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ok. I thought you had described yourself as a messianic Jew in a prior post but I am obviously wrong. I don’t think Christians would disagree that Paul influenced christianity. And I recall that there is some dicussion about an intitial dispute as to whether or not gentiles had to undergo circumcision in which Paul won out on.

No Valke2, not a “Messianic Jew” in the sense of Jews who have left Judaism for Christianity. But I believe that I fit that classification for being of those Jews who take from Isaiah that Israel, the Jewish People is the Messiah. If I belong to the collective Messiah, I am a Messianic Jew.

So you are seeking something akin to a repeal of christian theology?

Perhaps if they cannot detatch their warped Jewish claims.

What if someone were to argue that “Rabbinic Judaism” is falsely based on the assumption that the oral torah wa given directly from Hashem to Moses when in fact it was a man made evolution of interpetation of scripture? I wouldn’t expect that argument to sway you or anyone else against normative Judaism.

You are right, because it indeed would not make a dent on me. My views about the oral Torah are exactly as you describe: A man made evolution of interpretation of Scriptures. Not that I reject it, but that’s all that it is.

I am all for Jews learning more about their faith. And I think the conversations you are having take on a whole different flavor when directed at Jews as opposed to Christians.

That’s my mission: To reach Jews who are perishing for lack of knowledge. (Hosea 4:6) Something like what
Jesus did when he declared that he had come only for the Jews.(Mat. 15:24) Only that I am ready to share with Gentiles not the crumbles that fall from the table of the children but also to let them sit with the children at the table, according to Isaiah 56:1-8.

You really got five gentiles to convert to Judaism? That is defintely worth a new thread, IMO. I am impressed with your influence on these people’s lives. Thank God for you. Maybe it is just that your posts come off as a bit more confontational than your arguments in face to face discussions. I apologize if overreacted to some of your posts.

Yes Valke2, they were former Seventh-Day Adventists. And the best I haven’t told you: They made Aliyah. You know, immigrated here to Israel. It was here that the two daughters of the family got married with two nice young Israeli Jews and each one has two children already. Born Jewish children. I was best man in their weddings. Yes, you are right too about my connection with this family prior to their conversion. It was through face-to-face discussions. However, the two former Jews who returned to Judaism, they reported to me through my email from America.

Ben: