The will of wicked refuse for eternity?

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Someone can help me with more on this topic.

“God forever supplies good things even to the devil, but he does not want to receive it.” (“ Against the Manicheans” , PG 94:1569B)

Also from Saint John Damascene

“… after death, there is no means for repentance, not because God does not accept repentance – He cannot deny Himself nor lose His compassion – but the soul does not change anymore … people after death are unchangeable"
 
Death could be considered a “magic moment” in the sense that we can no longer “store up for ourselves treasures in Heaven” as disembodied spirits. Also, we could no longer build on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones (or wood, hay, stubble -1 Cor 3).

But death being a magic moment in the sense that our human minds cannot change is incoherent. Humans become “unchanging beings” after death? Idk what that would even mean.

Also, would not a disembodied spirit be capable of memory, introspection and reason? Even if perception would not occur, I don’t see a good reason for believing that other intellectual faculties would cease.

With all due respect to St John Damascene, we need good reasons for believing that intellectual faculties get frozen upon death.
 
I know, it just does not make any sense and comes across as extremely unfair, take a priest for instance who generally lives a good life, is loved by his parishioners(a bit too much by one perhaps) he goes to confession one day and then the next day he has sex with a woman he knows from his church and is killed instantly by a plane that crashes on his house, he goes to Hell even though he intended to go to Confession after having sex, I am sorry but this just is not the way my father would act if I disobeyed him, maybe my father is too liberal?
 
If he was truly sorry then grace would have been restored in the soul and he would not be sent to Hell, although he would likely have to spend time in Purgatory. After all, an injustice has been committed and therefore restitution must be made. But perfect contrition is a gift, hence we have the sacrament of Confession to help us restore the life of grace in the soul. God is not some avenging judge waiting to snatch us out of this life and sentence us to Hell the moment we make a mistake. Ultimately, it is we who choose hell by choosing sin over God. We have free will, and we do not know when we will die. In the end, we are not judged by how much we were loved, but by how much we loved God.
 
What is being truly sorry like? did he even have time to be truly sorry? I am sorry but this priest never chose Hell, he chose to sin but he did not choose Hell. Why would God not forgive him?
 
When we choose mortal sin, we choose Hell. We tell God, I know this is wrong, but I’m going to do it anyways. And God departs the soul, because we have told Him to.

As to whether or not he had time to be truly sorry, well that is hard to say. Like I said, the grace of making a perfect contrition is a grace that may not be given to us. That is why it is so important to go to Confession if we have committed a mortal sin. You may be the holiest person on earth, but if you at any moment freely turn from God and you die without that grace, you leave this life and enter the next with the permanent stamp of sin.
 
I still think it is unfair that God would not give that grace of perfect contrition to everyone, God is a bit like the manager of a company who only chooses people to work for him who have gone to an expensive school, when asked why he did not pick an employee who went to a public school he does not give a reason and says that it was his choice who he wanted to work for his company.
 
God suffered and died for us! That is “unfair”. He made us, we disobey Him, and still He loved us so much He sent His only begotten Son to die for our sins in the most ignominious way possible. And knowing this, we still sin! We have been granted free will. If God were to be required to rectify our mistakes by granting us perfect contrition, then we would lose the ability to freely turn back to Him.
 
If God gives all perfect contrition we still are free, we are not being forced. I know there are people in this world who are totally unrepentant and would never turn to God but I don’t think I am such a person and I am sure you don’t either.
 
Keep in mind that these quotes are consistent with the following: ‘It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment.’ - Hebrews 9:27
 
I love St Thomas! He’s really a hero of mine, but on this particular issue, he simply follows St Augustine in the “necessity” of an everlasting punishment of Hell. Having that as his starting point, he works to provide some justification.

He says, “…mortal sin deserves everlasting punishment. But there would be no everlasting punishment of the souls of the damned if they were able to change their will for a better will;”

Aquinas also says in 93, “The change of a will, furthermore, from sin to good takes place only by the grace of God, as what was said in Book III makes clear. But, just as the souls of the good are admitted to a perfect sharing in the divine goodness, so the souls of the damned are entirely excluded from grace.”

This is very similar to the above. Because of the prior commitment to the bleak Augustinian vision of damnation, Aquinas merely presumes here that God’s grace (which all agree is necessary) will be inoperative in Hell. No argument, it’s just plainly stated as if self-evidently true.

He concludes, “Therefore, the souls of the wicked will cleave unchangeably to the end which they themselves have chosen.” Aquinas doesn’t specify this “improper end.” What is it? What is the non-good toward which the human will is oriented everlastingly in Hell?

As he says in 95, “it follows universally on rational nature to desire beatitude,” with which we would all agreee. However, how is this natural human desire thwarted and completely taken away in Hell? What then does the human become in Hell? A frozen statue with no desire for the good (or beatitude)? That wouldn’t be a human. I’m not sure what that would be.
 
Sin is addictive. If it is not routed out, it grows ever worse. Them that despise both the heat of day and dark of night quickly learn that the twilight is fleeting and must yield to one or the other.
 
Magnanimity said:
What then does the human become in Hell? A frozen statue with no desire for the good (or beatitude)? That wouldn’t be a human. I’m not sure what that would be.
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The wicked in hell has a defective desire for a"temporal" happiness, therefore jumps eternally away from the 🔥 fire that is everywhere, because that appears to be certain loss of being to the unregenerate defective reason.

But the “fire” is the presence of our LORD, ‘I AM’; all united to him are aflame in love and joy, eternal happiness - the Seraphim, always before him, are burning, Jesus countenance and clothes shine.

Jumping in to the fire is pouring out your life into our LORD, into ‘I AM’; it is “dying”, but that is “eternal life” - divine life of eternal reciprocation of love, of pouring your whole being and life into the one you love so he has you as his own (humans die when they do this). And a miracle, resurrection, and your LORD, your ‘I AM’, eternally pours his whole being, life, his Spirit, into the emptiness of you, so you have your lover in union, and like that burning bush, you are bright aflame, but not consumed. Life in the fire, but seen as death to those refusing to pour out their lives in love.

John Martin
 
John_Martin said:
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Nice post, but only shows one side of the coin, I show the other side of the coin, which side shows, God takes WITHOUT FORCE everyone home to heaven. - It is His duty of care.

Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott,

Fallen man cannot redeem himself. (De fide.)
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For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary. (De fide.)
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There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will. (De fide.) – This is the correct understanding of our free will.

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308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes: For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. – This is the correct understanding of our free will.
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2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man. …”
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St. Thomas teaches that God effects everything, the willing and the achievement. S. Th.II/II 4, 4 ad 3:

St. Thomas also teaches that all movements of will and choice must be traced to the divine will: and not to any other cause, because Gad alone is the cause of our willing and choosing. CG, 3.91.

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This is the way God prepares/ causes us to say YES to His gift of salvation.

CCCS 1990-1991; "Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.

Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
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CCCS 1996-1998; Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.”

Acts 13:48; … as many as had been appointed for eternal life believed.

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John 6:44; No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

While St. Thomas says that man turns to God by his own free will, he explains that free-will can only be turn to God, when God turns it.

John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.

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The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused with Sanctifying grace. (De fide.)

Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification. (De fide.)
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As we see above, the provision of our gift salvation and the protection of our salvation by His gift of Final perseverance which is an INFALLIBLE PROTECTION of our salvation, parts of God’s DUTY OF CARE.
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God bless
 
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You have some really good thoughts here, especially your comments about the fire emanating from God himself. It reminds me of a passage from Von Balthasar:
And if, according to 1 Corinthinas 3:12-15, all have to pass through fire in order to reach God, if all that is “wood, hay, straw” in them has to be burned so that they themselves may be “saved…through fire”, then who can ever fully grasp the horror of this ordeal? … Origen, following Clement, calls the fire waiting for us “sapiential”, “spiritual”; it is the baptism in Spirit and fire mentioned by the Baptist, who had baptized with water. The Spirit came to us on Pentecost, the fire is waiting for us after our death: the Lord will “stand in the river of fire near the ‘flaming sword’”, which everybody must pass in order to return to paradise… Remember, “ our God is a consuming fire …He does not consume what is according to the image and likeness , he does not consume his own creation but accumulated hay , the accumulated wood , the accumulated stubble .” - Von Balthasar, Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved? pp194-96.
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John_Martin said:
The wicked in hell has a defective desire for a"temporal" happiness,
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This is what we all have, and we have it here, whether we are generally wicked or good.
John_Martin said:
therefore jumps eternally away
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I’m not sure how to envision an eternal jump away from the Good.
John_Martin said:
refusing to pour out their lives in love.
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Since we are made for beautitude and our wills are oriented toward the good, I’m quite unclear as to how we could perpetually, unendingly refuse the divine Love.
 
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adrian1 said:
Someone can help me with more on this topic.

“God forever supplies good things even to the devil, but he does not want to receive it.” (“ Against the Manicheans” , PG 94:1569B)

Also from Saint John Damascene

“… after death, there is no means for repentance, not because God does not accept repentance – He cannot deny Himself nor lose His compassion – but the soul does not change anymore … people after death are unchangeable"
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Catechism
I. The Particular Judgment
1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ. 590 The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. the parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul – a destiny which can be different for some and for others. 591

1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: …

590 Cf. 2 Tim 1:9-10.
591 Cf. Lk 16:22; 23:43; Mt 16:26; 2 Cor 5:8; Phil 1:23; Heb 9:27; 12:23.
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Magnanimity said:
I’m quite unclear as to how we could perpetually, unendingly refuse the divine Love.
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Via a defective understanding of good. The fire does not equal divine Love to the defective understanding, to the mind of the flesh that seeks to call good anything away from self giving.
 
The reason hell is eternal is because the obstinacy is eternal. God at no point in eternity ever desires a moment of misery for the dammed. This has a long history in sacred tradition and goes back even to the Old Testament.
 
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