The worst you've treated your spouse

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twoangels

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We all fight, and we sin against each other. I often find that the secular world doesn’t use the word sin, but uses the word “abuse” and has a total no toleration policy to it. It often gives this impression to me that couples either always treat each other exceptionally well or couples consistantly treat each other abusively. Is there middle ground, or does crossing the line mean abuse is constantly present?
 
Not all fighting is sin. Only when you let anger take over and then things may get out of hand. remember the scripture Be angry, but do not sin…that is a tough one.
 
I think it’s a balancing act.

Yes, there are lines that should not be crossed, obviously.

I agree with you, however, that what we see has habitual sin/vice is often labelled as abuse by general society. I get really sick of people crying ‘abuse!’ about things that are not abuse.

When we married, did we not say, “for better or for worse” and, “in sickness and in health?” Well habitual sin is sickness of the soul. What does it say about the wife who abandons her husband because he has a habitual sin like anger, especially if he recognizes that he has this sin and is working to correct it? Or what does it say about the husband who abandons his wife because she has a similar vice?

We don’t know the intimacies and complexities of others’ marriages. A couple could be working hard together to help a spouse who is struggling with a vice like anger.
 
Smugleaf said:
There is a huge difference between fighting and abuse…
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I don’t know. When I read articles of abuse, it seems that anything short of always constructively resolving your conflicts with perfect communication is abuse. If you ever raise your voice at each other, use vulgar language or move from talking about an issue that needs to be solved to criticizing each other verbally, it’s abuse no matter if it occurs once every 5 years or everyday of your marriage. Granted, it does seem to me that it is implied that if someone ever crosses the line to verbal abuse that it will occur on a constant basis until it escalates into physical violence.
 
twoangels said:
I don’t know. When I read articles of abuse, it seems that anything short of always constructively resolving your conflicts with perfect communication is abuse. If you ever raise your voice at each other, use vulgar language or move from talking about an issue that needs to be solved to criticizing each other verbally, it’s abuse no matter if it occurs once every 5 years or everyday of your marriage. Granted, it does seem to me that it is implied that if someone ever crosses the line to verbal abuse that it will occur on a constant basis until it escalates into physical violence.
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I don’t think its one or the other, no one resolves their conflicts with PEFECT communication. Raising your voice doesn’t equal verbal abuse either. But nobody should have to endure name calling or vulgar language, I do think that can be abusive. Whether its to the degree of verbal abuse, I’m sure a professional would be better informed to answer that. But I do think if the fighting resorts to name calling and vulgarity, the couple needs to work on that and find a better way to communicate to solve their conflicts. Verbal abuse does not always lead to physical violence, but its just as damaging.
 
I found some articles about abuse…

foryourmarriage.org/everymarriage/overcoming-obstacles/domestic-violence/

psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/200812/are-you-dating-abuser

In my marriage we’ve definitely had hard times…some events could have ventured into verbal abuse, but they aren’t a pattern, I wouldn’t call it an abusive relationship. We argue at times, we aren’t there for each other at times. It isn’t purposeful, it’s more careless than anything.

In my early 20’s I did have an emotionally abusive relationship. The abuse wasn’t in the form of shouting and calling me names…it was more shaming, manipulating, playing mind games and lies. (I guess if he had shouted and called me names…or hit me i would have realized it was abuse much sooner.) But he was stealthy.

Here are some examples. He would tell me he didn’t like the things I wore. He would say that they were not flattering, and made me look fat. I was 120 pounds at the time.

He was obsessed with me being a virgin. I needed to wait until we were married…which is fine. But at the same time he was very sexually aggressive, one point I was crying for him to stop…which he did. Instead of saying, that he was sorry, he told me he was testing me to see if I was actually a “good girl”, he expected me to stop him.

One time my uncle took us to a very nice dinner at a very nice restaurant, as his guests. During the dinner my ex leaned over to whisper something in my ear. How romantic? No he told me I was embarrassing him with my table manners, my elbows were on the table.

He would lie, he told me my cousin made a pass at him…when he was actually hitting on her, my aunt witnessed it. He lied about having a brain tumor! He made up an entire story for who knows what reason.

And he would make subtle threats, If I did this, he would break up with me, if I did that, he would hit me. “I’m warning you, if you ever do that, I’m going to hit you.”

Why did I stay? Because he was charming when he wanted to be, overtly romantic…I had a box of love letters that he had written me. But practically 20 years after the fact, I still don’t know. I was raised very sheltered, I guess I didn’t know what to look for in a relationship…good Catholic should be on top of the list, but I was not practicing the faith very well.

When I broke up with him, I felt relief. I didn’t mourn our relationship at all…I felt that he was a stranger to me. My good friend at the time told me that I looked different. When i was dating him I always looked fearful.
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
I found some articles about abuse…

foryourmarriage.org/everymarriage/overcoming-obstacles/domestic-violence/

psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/200812/are-you-dating-abuser

In my marriage we’ve definitely had hard times…some events could have ventured into verbal abuse, but they aren’t a pattern, I wouldn’t call it an abusive relationship. We argue at times, we aren’t there for each other at times. It isn’t purposeful, it’s more careless than anything.

In my early 20’s I did have an emotionally abusive relationship. The abuse wasn’t in the form of shouting and calling me names…it was more shaming, manipulating, playing mind games and lies. (I guess if he had shouted and called me names…or hit me i would have realized it was abuse much sooner.) But he was stealthy.

Here are some examples. He would tell me he didn’t like the things I wore. He would say that they were not flattering, and made me look fat. I was 120 pounds at the time.

He was obsessed with me being a virgin. I needed to wait until we were married…which is fine. But at the same time he was very sexually aggressive, one point I was crying for him to stop…which he did. Instead of saying, that he was sorry, he told me he was testing me to see if I was actually a “good girl”, he expected me to stop him.

One time my uncle took us to a very nice dinner at a very nice restaurant, as his guests. During the dinner my ex leaned over to whisper something in my ear. How romantic? No he told me I was embarrassing him with my table manners, my elbows were on the table.

He would lie, he told me my cousin made a pass at him…when he was actually hitting on her, my aunt witnessed it. He lied about having a brain tumor! He made up an entire story for who knows what reason.

And he would make subtle threats, If I did this, he would break up with me, if I did that, he would hit me. “I’m warning you, if you ever do that, I’m going to hit you.”

Why did I stay? Because he was charming when he wanted to be, overtly romantic…I had a box of love letters that he had written me. But practically 20 years after the fact, I still don’t know. I was raised very sheltered, I guess I didn’t know what to look for in a relationship…good Catholic should be on top of the list, but I was not practicing the faith very well.

When I broke up with him, I felt relief. I didn’t mourn our relationship at all…I felt that he was a stranger to me. My good friend at the time told me that I looked different. When i was dating him I always looked fearful.
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This is definitely abuse in my book. I am glad you were able to get out of it.

I think it’s completely different than say, someone who was raised in a morally relative household and never taught to cultivate virtues and good habits (because they were just left to ‘be who they were.’) Someone who then comes into the fullness of the Church in their twenties and then has to start figuring out on their own how to overcome habitual sin like anger. Let’s face it, it’s a lot easier and it feels better (at the time) to release that frustration/anger in a lashing out moment of words or punching something (not someone) or grabbing someone’s arm, etc, rather than controlling your emotions and keeping a cool head when frustrated. That is HARD. But if said person realized the importance of it as that twenty-something adult with no understanding of how to overcome this habitual sin, even though they wanted to, and they began a long, hard journey to do it… making progress, etc… can you say they are abusive? Or that if they marry that the other spouse is in an abusive relationship? Or if they have children that the children are abused?

I mean… what if the sin that person had struggled with was gluttony? Or sloth? Or any other mortal sin like anger? If they faced the similar situation of trying to work out how to overcome a habitual sin and develop a virtue for the first time as an adult instead of throughout their childhood, would someone say that you should not marry them or have children with them? Most cradle Catholics I know seem to also have habitual sins that are similar. Even anger. And they seem to all be struggling to work through overcoming those sins through availing themselves of the sacraments regularly, prayer, personal commitments to boundaries, etc.

Are we to write someone off if they struggle with anger but are making progress with overcoming it?
 
I would certainly feel abused if my fiance started calling me names or screaming obscenities at me. Maybe not call the cops or breakup abused, but abused nonetheless.

Fortunately he’s not that kind of man. We’ve had some doozies and we’ve raised our voices, but we work really hard to keep it at that.

I grew up in an angry, abusive home. I would never marry someone that I or my future children would have to fear. I grew up afraid, I won’t live like that as an adult or put anyone else through that. I intentionally picked someone calm, gentle, and respectful. He certainly isn’t a pushover, and we’ve had some ugly fights, but there are lines that we just don’t cross.
 
The modern notion of abuse involves some kind of newly fashioned hysteria. This is similar to how some people get hyped on civil rights. “Abuse” has become a magical word: cry “abuse!” and some defined, intended consequences happen. It also serves as an excuse for some kind of radical reaction.

This said, I’d rather marry somebody who is familiar with the Geneva convention.
 
chevalier said:
The modern notion of abuse involves some kind of newly fashioned hysteria. This is similar to how some people get hyped on civil rights. “Abuse” has become a magical word: cry “abuse!” and some defined, intended consequences happen. It also serves as an excuse for some kind of radical reaction.

This said, I’d rather marry somebody who is familiar with the Geneva convention.
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Exactly. It is a magical word intended to overgeneralize all less than optimal manner of communication.
 
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