The younger generations

  • Thread starter Thread starter tritcher1988
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

tritcher1988

Guest
Hi,

I am working on making friends with some of the people of my parish. I notice that there are not many young adults of my generation present (I am 23). I would like to feel more comfortable being around the generations of my parents and grandparents. Would you share your opinion with me about today’s young people?
 
I think today’s young people in the West, Catholics included, are tragic victims to secularism. Perhaps this “New Evangelization” thing can start to rev its engines. Of course the process by which young people are reacquainted with the Church is going to have to be through supplementary catechesis that they never received as children and teenagers. It will have to be done with tact and skill, but it must be good, solid, 100% orthodox, no wishy-washy, Catholic teaching, in an understandable, easily-digestible form.

My opinion is that the Catechism of the Catholic Church will be a horrible primary tool for front-line catechesis, especially of young people. It is, of course, an excellent primary source and referential document, but it is simply far too clunky for real use in a real life setting. Something akin to the Baltimore Catechism needs to be made. I am thinking mostly of the format, but the content of the original is still (and always will be) perfectly valid and viable for use. With the CCC, you usually have to wade through a bunch of stuff. This is not so with the BC, which is very easy to understand and progresses smoothly and easily with its question and answer style in simple language.

Of course the liturgy is also a major point of contention. But this is already well-known here!
 
The previous post makes some good points about secularism. To extend this thought, the churches in my area are largely lukewarm, filled with dissent, highly feminized, and open and propagating the heresy of Modernism. This makes the faith rather dull. Younger people see “dull” and go negative.

Another issue with our church today is with the preaching and teaching. I have met only a few priests out of nearly a hundred that will give a solid homily on what the church teaches. The homilies are usually very weak and sometimes make no sense. The younger generation see right through this and realize the church has been reduced, has lost its meaning, and they leave.

To get the young people to return a lot of things need to happen. We need solid preaching that is inspiring, challenging, and aimed directly at the objective Truth - God. We need priests that promote spiritual direction and the Sacrament of Penance. We need men, yes just men, to lead faith formation groups in the parish.

There is more to say but you get the idea. We need radical change. We need the springtime of the new evangelization!
 
I’m old enough to be your father and I don’t think that the younger generations are much different today than my generation. I’d say the young folks today are more reliant on and derive their identity from technology rather than face time, but the secular values of my parents generation were passed onto mine and have been, in turn, passed down further. I certainly do not believe that my generation, or my parents’ generation, are “holier than thou.” The boomers have been more self-absorbed than any generation in history, and my generation picked up where they left off. I hope that the younger generations reject the cultural values of their parents and grandparents generations.
 
Hi,

I am working on making friends with some of the people of my parish. I notice that there are not many young adults of my generation present (I am 23). I would like to feel more comfortable being around the generations of my parents and grandparents. Would you share your opinion with me about today’s young people?
My advice, if you are to spend more time around these elders, is to listen to them. Listen to what they say and how they say it. In short, learn their language, as it is the language of mature adults.

One of my observations is that many young people today are not only somewhat self-absorbed, but they do not wish to know about things beyond their immediate everyday world. If it does not concern their immediate comforts, there is a certain antipathy. One teen recently said to me, “The Middle East? Why should I care about what happens there?” (Ironically, we were talking about gas prices at the time.) It is one thing not to understand the complex situation in that part of the world (many of my generation certainly did not at that age, or even now, for some) but it is another thing altogether to whine that it is boring and of no concern to us here. While we of the previous generation were somewhat self-absorbed, I do not think that we were so quick (or so proud) to display our ignorance about the ways of the world.
 
I think older people baby the younger generation and try and give them what they think they want at Mass. They water down the Liturgy with feel good items like guitars, drums, dancing, applause, etc… They make the Mass out to be about achievements of man instead of God. All of this and more is done to make happy the young generation in a false belief that it will keep them in the Church. What they fail to realize is that once that kid gets to high school and college, they will see that the secular world does fun a lot better. They no longer see what is important about a faith that was watered down for them. They turn to fun and the secular world says that sex, partying, etc. is the way to have the most fun. That same young adult has no idea what authentic Catholic teaching is because they were never catechised properly. One day something will happen in that persons life that will have them look more closely at their faith. I am sure this happens at different periods for everyone. When it does, you will have an individual that is sad and angry with what has occured. If they do decide to come back to the Church they will desire the authentic faith they missed out on during the beginning of their life. Until the Church learns this, we will continue to bleed the young out of our Church. This is coming from someone that came back to the Church last year after being gone for 15 years. I left when I was in high school.
 
Avoid getting fixated on age or other things like that. Listen to St Francis de Sales …

“Truly charity has no limit; for the love of God has been poured into our hearts
by His Spirit dwelling in each one of us, calling us to a life of devotion and inviting us to bloom in the garden where He has planted and directing us to radiate the beauty and spread the fragrance of His Providence.”

This is often rendered as** bloom where you’re planted**. If you are around parents and grandparents, make friends with them.
 
One day something will happen in that persons life that will have them look more closely at their faith. I am sure this happens at different periods for everyone. When it does, you will have an individual that is sad and angry with what has occured. If they do decide to come back to the Church they will desire the authentic faith they missed out on during the beginning of their life. Until the Church learns this, we will continue to bleed the young out of our Church. This is coming from someone that came back to the Church last year after being gone for 15 years. I left when I was in high school.
Yep. I came back after 10 years after leaving in high school, and I’m rip-roaring mad. :mad:
 
I’m almost 22 and I don’t normally see people in my age group during Mass (weekdays or on Sunday). I would like to give more credit to my generation since I have been to a Newman center (which is not on my campus) and there are intelligent young Catholics there. Relativism is a definite threat in our world today. I occasionally browse through tumblr and I can take a step back and see how easy it was for me to be tempted to think of things that were contrary to the Faith.

It’s so easy to be accused of being ‘a bigot’ and ‘close-minded’ when defending the Truth. There are believers in our generation but I think they need to engage in the more intellectual side of the Church, ground themselves in their Faith and * toughen* up. I’ve seen enough people who turn away from the Church for the sake of friends and family.

I’m so glad that we have Pope Benedict as our Shepherd.

Like you I’ve been interacting with people of my parent’s and grandparent’s generation. For the most part, they’re not afraid to talk about their Faith and I’ve been learning from them.
 
I am a young person. I know many intelligent, orthodox young Catholics. They are passionate about their faith. My experience has been that each generation lambasts the subsequent one. This was happening in Ancient Greece and has happened without ceasing to the present day. “But,” you may say, “today’s youngsters REALLY are different!” Yeah, well, everyone who has preceded us has said that too.

Almost everyone matures over time. There are immature young people. There are very mature young people as well. And look at how connected the world is now and what young people are accomplishing in the nonprofit realm, etc.: I hardly think that there is a concern for total moral nihilism in the near future.
The previous post makes some good points about secularism. To extend this thought, the churches in my area are largely lukewarm, filled with dissent, highly feminized, and open and propagating the heresy of Modernism. This makes the faith rather dull. Younger people see “dull” and go negative.
I question the terminology here, but whatever.
We need men, yes just men, to lead faith formation groups in the parish.
No, we do not. We need orthodox, inspiring figures, whether they be male or female.
 
Hi,

I am working on making friends with some of the people of my parish. I notice that there are not many young adults of my generation present (I am 23). I would like to feel more comfortable being around the generations of my parents and grandparents. Would you share your opinion with me about today’s young people?
I am a young person… I think… I am 26 🙂

I usually found my values would clash with my peers, especially at University. So I had to be extremely patient and ready to defend my beliefs. At first, there would also be peer pressure to do things you do not agree. But after a time, it got better once they realized the pressure won’t work. But it also means loosing most of those friends because they will consider you not fun to hang around.

So anyway, I usually find that I get along with my parents and the parents of my peers much better.
 
I am a young person. I know many intelligent, orthodox young Catholics. They are passionate about their faith. My experience has been that each generation lambasts the subsequent one. This was happening in Ancient Greece and has happened without ceasing to the present day. “But,” you may say, “today’s youngsters REALLY are different!” Yeah, well, everyone who has preceded us has said that too.

Almost everyone matures over time. There are immature young people. There are very mature young people as well. And look at how connected the world is now and what young people are accomplishing in the nonprofit realm, etc.: I hardly think that there is a concern for total moral nihilism in the near future.
While your thoughts are true to some extent, there is no doubt that culture has deteriorated rapidly where we live. Take any other culture in the world and quiz the values they have between the old and the young. It is not that different. In these other cultures, you will actually find the deviance is usually due to immaturity. Once they reach a certain age, the immaturity goes away and they are back in line. More importantly, most of these other cultures have respect toward their elders which keeps even the young in-check while they are immature. This is something absolutely missing in our culture here.

In fact, most of the Orthodox Catholics you meet will have issues with respecting their parents and their advice. As a result, in most cases, these Orthodox Catholics have no sense of prudence. They take a situation, analyze to see if there is any direct doctrinal contradiction, if not, they act. Usually these acts, lead to situations where it does cause doctrinal contradictions. Then before long, they too are lead astray till they realize they have to start coming back.

What I mean to say is, our culture has become one where we allow anyone to “screw up”. We would rather people “screw up”, then learn, than try to prevent them. The traditions of the church, the cultural values of the past are usually what gives us the ability in the form of heuristics/practices to PREVENT “screw ups”. Breaking tradition is therefore not immoral but unwise because it might lead to doing something immoral and “screwing up”. But the younger generations here usually abandon all of this ancient collected wisdom in the form of traditions and cultural values of the past to “be my own guide”.

As a result, many of them, including Orthodox Catholics (and even young priests), “screw up”. But only few learn from it and ever live/survive to come back and tell the tale 😦
 
While your thoughts are true to some extent, there is no doubt that culture has deteriorated rapidly where we live. Take any other culture in the world and quiz the values they have between the old and the young. It is not that different.
First, different does not mean bad. Romanticization of the past is never beneficial.

Second, we struggle with issues today that were not issues a generation ago, but have overcome others. We can weigh those against each other, but I do not know how productive that is.

Third, again, that same statement has been put forward since about three thousand years ago.
In these other cultures, you will actually find the deviance is usually due to immaturity. Once they reach a certain age, the immaturity goes away and they are back in line. More importantly, most of these other cultures have respect toward their elders which keeps even the young in-check while they are immature. This is something absolutely missing in our culture here.
In what sense? The young people are still young. How can you claim that they will not mature as they age?
In fact, most of the Orthodox Catholics you meet will have issues with respecting their parents and their advice. As a result, in most cases, these Orthodox Catholics
have no sense of prudence.
Could you give some concrete examples? Also, bear in mind that obedience to parents ends as the child gains independence, as pointed out in Catholic teaching. Respect never ends. But I would say that young people today are concerned with correctness regardless of source. In that sense, I agree, there is less inherent respect given to parents qua parents. I do not think that this is inherently that problematic.
They take a situation, analyze to see if there is any direct doctrinal contradiction, if not, they act. Usually these acts, lead to situations where it does cause doctrinal contradictions. Then before long, they too are lead astray till they realize they have to start coming back.
Examples?
What I mean to say is, our culture has become one where we allow anyone to “screw up”. We would rather people “screw up”, then learn, than try to prevent them. … But the younger generations here usually abandon all of this ancient collected wisdom in the form of traditions and cultural values of the past to “be my own guide”.
This is not something unique to the younger generation. You speak as if everyone prior made no mistakes ever. That is obviously not the case. How many 40-50 year-olds did drugs at some point in their lives? How many played harmful pranks? How many abused alcohol, played hookey, etc.? I really do not think this is a generational issue.
 
First, different does not mean bad. Romanticization of the past is never beneficial.

Second, we struggle with issues today that were not issues a generation ago, but have overcome others. We can weigh those against each other, but I do not know how productive that is.

Third, again, that same statement has been put forward since about three thousand years ago.
I was not really speaking of the past as if it were all rosy by any means. But the fact remains that cultures usually build on top of what they have. So values aren’t discarded but refined. Heuristics aren’t scrapped but refined. ‘traditions’ aren’t scrapped but refined.

So how cultures evolve is first they have a set of morals they receive from religion or by natural knowledge. Then the culture grows up around preserving, encouraging, and following these values and preventing occasions where immoral acts will take place. The history of a culture contains a lot lessons learned from mistakes and collective wisdom of many lives than you and I can ever possibly achieve in one life time about these things. This wisdom is passed on in the form of traditions and prudential heuristics. When a culture forgets its past, usually it does cause a lot of errors.

Usually this means that each individual will have to reinvent the wheel. Sometimes they will, or sometimes they will simply change the set of morals to reflect their own positions.
In what sense? The young people are still young. How can you claim that they will not mature as they age?

Could you give some concrete examples?
A good example would be our current culture and sexuality.

Initially, after the sexual revolution through the hands of some, many were exposed to its effects. Sex was viewed as casual and sex before marriage was made to look like a norm. Women were encouraged to wear revealing outfits that would encourage sexual attraction. Contraception was made to look very normal. For a young Catholic growing up today, given a Catholic moral set, they will find it harder and harder to follow. The culture around them is simply against them.

As time goes by, many simply adopt the culture and change the morals. So many don’t come back and the cycle of the new culture is re-enforced.
Also, bear in mind that obedience to parents ends as the child gains independence, as pointed out in Catholic teaching. Respect never ends. But I would say that young people today are concerned with correctness regardless of source. In that sense, I agree, there is less inherent respect given to parents qua parents. I do not think that this is inherently that problematic.
Very correct. But you have to keep in mind that when a child becomes independent is also a culturally determined phenomenon to some extent. For some in our new culture, this age is as low as 10. For others 17 etc. In the past, and still in most other cultures, it is the moment in which the child gets married.

So to some extent this is a very big problem. When a 17 year old for an example is allowed to decide on his own what is right or wrong, they can make some pretty bad decisions. It is psychologically a very delicate age and usually not the period of any person’s life where they look back and go “I did some smart things then”. Usually the only smart thing many do is follow the ancient tradition or parental advice and going to receive a further education.
Examples?
Well, to give you a very common example that one hears all the time. Take a case where a girl visits her boy friend. They have decided to stay chaste till marriage. But it gets late, and she decides to spend the night with him without any intent of having sex. Prudence and tradition will say this is wrong. In the course of the night, usually due to natural attraction, they do get tempted and in fact end up doing something they will regret.
This is not something unique to the younger generation. You speak as if everyone prior made no mistakes ever. That is obviously not the case. How many 40-50 year-olds did drugs at some point in their lives? How many played harmful pranks? How many abused alcohol, played hookey, etc.? I really do not think this is a generational issue.
Very interestingly, the problems you highlight are very unique to our present society. The degradation of our culture did not begin with our generation. It was something that started long time ago as early as late 1800’s and some seeds in the Renaissance.

As a result, you see lot of old timers today who also made lot of mistakes in their lives. Some lived to tell the tale, others did not make it. Even among the ones who made it, they handed on some of their bad ideas to their own children.

But if you look outside at other cultures, the number of grown-ups that you will find who engaged in such deviant activities is very less. The usual rebellious acts are not even close to the level of violations like ‘doing drugs’, ‘abusing alcohol’ that you find in our culture. The ones who do things like in our culture are very few.

What all this means is that the systems in those cultures also include mechanisms to better cope with the usual rebellion and immature behavior that every person goes through at a certain age. Our current culture has thrown away our ancient collective wisdom on these things and as a result have no mechanisms in place to keep things in-check. As a result, every subsequent generation has become very vastly different from the first.

The same problems have started to occur in other cultures as well as the young in these cultures look up to us as their role models.
 
A good example would be our current culture and sexuality…
I agree – the current sexual environment is deplorable. On the other hand, it is not as if the pre-1980s era was one of total sexual morality. Look at the legal and societal advances that have been made in dealing with rape, for example.

I would also yet again mention that a larger historical context is necessary. To view our society as the end-all be-all of cultural development is myopic. Sexual promiscuity is not a new issue, and issues (looking at the historical record) ebb and flow over time. I point you in the direction of Horace and Juvenal, for example.
Well, to give you a very common example that one hears all the time. Take a case where a girl visits her boy friend. They have decided to stay chaste till marriage. But it gets late, and she decides to spend the night with him without any intent of having sex. Prudence and tradition will say this is wrong. In the course of the night, usually due to natural attraction, they do get tempted and in fact end up doing something they will regret.
Or, instead, they do not do something they regret, because they are able to overcome or simply are not subject to that temptation. :confused: Why should I assume the worst? “Prudence and tradition” are not universally applicable in cases like this.
Very interestingly, the problems you highlight are very unique to our present society. The degradation of our culture did not begin with our generation. It was something that started long time ago as early as late 1800’s and some seeds in the Renaissance.
No, it did not. Witness Cicero. Witness Seneca. Witness Homer. Witness Petronius. Witness Heliogabalus. Witness the Marquis de Sade. Witness any number of historical figures that have either commented on or accelerated the perceived societal decline that occurred in their lifetimes. These are not unique issues, these are not geographically or temporally constrained.
But if you look outside at other cultures, the number of grown-ups that you will find who engaged in such deviant activities is very less. The usual rebellious acts are not even close to the level of violations like ‘doing drugs’, ‘abusing alcohol’ that you find in our culture. The ones who do things like in our culture are very few.
Have you been to the Netherlands? Or Scandinavia? What “cultures” are under consideration? What do those societies have in common that we do not?

It is not clear to me what system you would like to have in place in, say, the United States. You say that we should look to authority, but I have no conception of what that would mean at a concrete level.
 
I think older people baby the younger generation and try and give them what they think they want at Mass. They water down the Liturgy with feel good items like guitars, drums, dancing, applause, etc… They make the Mass out to be about achievements of man instead of God. All of this and more is done to make happy the young generation in a false belief that it will keep them in the Church. What they fail to realize is that once that kid gets to high school and college, they will see that the secular world does fun a lot better. They no longer see what is important about a faith that was watered down for them. They turn to fun and the secular world says that sex, partying, etc. is the way to have the most fun. That same young adult has no idea what authentic Catholic teaching is because they were never catechised properly. One day something will happen in that persons life that will have them look more closely at their faith. I am sure this happens at different periods for everyone. When it does, you will have an individual that is sad and angry with what has occured. If they do decide to come back to the Church they will desire the authentic faith they missed out on during the beginning of their life. Until the Church learns this, we will continue to bleed the young out of our Church. This is coming from someone that came back to the Church last year after being gone for 15 years. I left when I was in high school.
I notice this too. The homily is suited to the perceived needs of the congregation. Sometimes more important things are left out and the priest scrapes the surface. Where do they get the idea that no one likes to delve into theology and the doctrines of the Church? What about those whose only chance to understand the dogmatic constitutions and all the other delicate matters of our Faith is at the few minutes of the homily? Then again, the priest cannot preach to everyone’s liking,so we must pray for the youth because we are sometimes shortchanged. How many young catholics I have come across who have no idea about the Church’s teaching on many of the things spoken about here on CAF! I can say I have learned more from one month on CAF than from one year of homilies. Sad.😦
 
I agree – the current sexual environment is deplorable. On the other hand, it is not as if the pre-1980s era was one of total sexual morality. Look at the legal and societal advances that have been made in dealing with rape, for example.

I would also yet again mention that a larger historical context is necessary. To view our society as the end-all be-all of cultural development is myopic. Sexual promiscuity is not a new issue, and issues (looking at the historical record) ebb and flow over time. I point you in the direction of Horace and Juvenal, for example.
Well first thing to note is that we are not comparing pre-1980’s with post 1980’s. Rather, we are looking at the cultural norm from around the 18th century vs. that of now. The cultural and degradation of social values started that early according some observers. Some even date it back as far as the Renaissance.

As for sexual promiscuity, in most older cultures, it has always been restrained. It also reflects the morals of their particular beliefs.

What is so different about western civilization today is that the culture it-self does not reflect its religious belief anymore. It is lacking the wisdom that is present in most old cultures. So instead, every person today in our culture has to re-invent his values, build up his/her traditions and heuristics from the bottom up. Some take the easier route and just end up adopting the values of the current culture it-self.
Or, instead, they do not do something they regret, because they are able to overcome or simply are not subject to that temptation. :confused: Why should I assume the worst? “Prudence and tradition” are not universally applicable in cases like this.
I think this is a good example of what I meant by disregarding the collective wisdom because it doesn’t seem outright wrong. As you claimed as well, it seems harmless and why presume the worst?

This is where culture is so important. It comes down from the wisdom of many that something worse is more likely to happen. Therefore it is better to avoid it.
No, it did not. Witness Cicero. Witness Seneca. Witness Homer. Witness Petronius. Witness Heliogabalus. Witness the Marquis de Sade. Witness any number of historical figures that have either commented on or accelerated the perceived societal decline that occurred in their lifetimes. These are not unique issues, these are not geographically or temporally constrained.
But you are actually referring here to cultures who were going down the same cultural degradation we are experiencing. So you are in-fact correct.

What we can expect, is that if immigration stops, or other non-Western cultures also adopt ours, is a total collapse in civilization and a restart from scratch as we learn the same values over again.

This is as you say, not new. It happened to Rome as well. The problem however is that it is usually a painful experience and could be avoided if necessary.

My personal opinion here is that such a collapse will probably be limited to Western culture and society and most likely a different society of the East will start to take prominence and we will probably end up shaping our culture according to them.
Have you been to the Netherlands? Or Scandinavia? What “cultures” are under consideration? What do those societies have in common that we do not?
Netherlands and Scandinavia is similar to our culture. Though Scandinavia might be a bit different.

If you take the globe today, there are societies that you can label as following a Western set of cultural values and a set that you can label as against it or different from it.
It is not clear to me what system you would like to have in place in, say, the United States. You say that we should look to authority, but I have no conception of what that would mean at a concrete level.
Well, looking to authority is good for religion, like looking to the Pope. With cultural matters, it is a different story. To be honest, I am not entirely sure myself if there is a solution to the plight of our culture.

Perhaps with the influx of immigration, we might be able to receive some of our lost values and traditions from those coming in. That might possibly do the trick. But there is also the issue that when they come in, they adopt our own culture eventually instead.

So it is really not clear. Perhaps the decline is inevitable and we are looking at a collapse like that of the Roman Empire.

In any case, my point was that we cannot simple say everything is well. It is not. The more we realize there is a problem, the more chance we have of finding a solution or reversing the trend. In the meantime, we can only pray that God will guide our society out of this mess.
 
Prayer is always good. There are times however where good solid observation and action are needed. This is the time. The time of the laity as stated by the documents of Vatican II. Community action, faith formation groups, etc. These are needed today in a real way.

What is the most reliable predictor of a reliable faith life of children? Any idea? This is what should be taken seriously and acted upon.
 
Well first thing to note is that we are not comparing pre-1980’s with post 1980’s. Rather, we are looking at the cultural norm from around the 18th century vs. that of now. The cultural and degradation of social values started that early according some observers. Some even date it back as far as the Renaissance.
I am saying that I totally reject your framework. Older people have always complained about younger people. This is something that is 2500+ years old. If you want to argue that the current situation is damaging to society in a particular way, fine. But the notion that young people today are just totally lost and amoral etc. is something that has been repeated for millenia.
As for sexual promiscuity, in most older cultures, it has always been restrained. It also reflects the morals of their particular beliefs.
OMG LOL. Cato the Elder, known for his extreme stoicism, told a man coming out of a brothel to keep going there because it was an acceptable sexual outlet. The concept of marital fidelity, rape, etc. were all totally skewed and morally repulsive up until recently. Any knowledge of history whatsoever will corroborate my account.
I think this is a good example of what I meant by disregarding the collective wisdom because it doesn’t seem outright wrong. As you claimed as well, it seems harmless and why presume the worst?
My question was not rhetorical.
This is where culture is so important. It comes down from the wisdom of many that something worse is more likely to happen. Therefore it is better to avoid it.
Then you could be dealing with a generation that is focused on whether something is permitted or not permitted, which is different from saying they reject “tradition” and “older wisdom” etc.
But you are actually referring here to cultures who were going down the same cultural degradation we are experiencing. So you are in-fact correct.
No, I am saying that at every point in the history of those societies, people were perceiving them to be going downhill.
What we can expect, is that if immigration stops, or other non-Western cultures also adopt ours, is a total collapse in civilization and a restart from scratch as we learn the same values over again.
This is as you say, not new. It happened to Rome as well. The problem however is that it is usually a painful experience and could be avoided if necessary.
I agree. Societal collapse is bad. We should avoid it. How?
If you take the globe today, there are societies that you can label as following a Western set of cultural values and a set that you can label as against it or different from it.
You are right. Sub-Saharan Africa is the same as the theocratic Arab world is the same as China.

Look, I stand by my point: young people today are not that much worse than young people before, and there is not a way to accurately generalize an entire generation, especially in today’s pluralistic (culturally) society.
 
I am saying that I totally reject your framework. Older people have always complained about younger people. This is something that is 2500+ years old. If you want to argue that the current situation is damaging to society in a particular way, fine. But the notion that young people today are just totally lost and amoral etc. is something that has been repeated for millenia.
Well, its not repeated in every culture outside the West. Only ones repeating it in those cultures are the ones where younger generations are adopting Western values.

So whether you reject the framework or not, the fact remains that not every culture on the planet has been complaining this way for millenniums.
OMG LOL. Cato the Elder, known for his extreme stoicism, told a man coming out of a brothel to keep going there because it was an acceptable sexual outlet. The concept of marital fidelity, rape, etc. were all totally skewed and morally repulsive up until recently. Any knowledge of history whatsoever will corroborate my account.
I think you are not paying much attention to what I write. In my original reply to you, I explained how the culture is suppossed to reflect beliefs held as moral by the religion. The acts encouraged by Cato were not totally out of line compared to what was held as moral in their belief system. So in this sense, the culture was not degraded or anything. It was simply built on false values.
My question was not rhetorical.
Neither was my answer. You simply proved my point how lack of culture can lead even you down the wrong road.
Then you could be dealing with a generation that is focused on whether something is permitted or not permitted, which is different from saying they reject “tradition” and “older wisdom” etc.
Well, they simply reject tradition and older wisdom as simply not being relevant for them. I am not really in the mood for arguing semantics so I think some thought on your own will help formulate a logical concept that is to your liking.
No, I am saying that at every point in the history of those societies, people were perceiving them to be going downhill.
And I am telling you, apart from the few examples you gave, not every society has perceived their own young generations this way.
I agree. Societal collapse is bad. We should avoid it. How?
As I said, I don’t know. Pray.
You are right. Sub-Saharan Africa is the same as the theocratic Arab world is the same as China.
You are again misunderstanding cultural uniformity with what I am saying. Please pay attention to what I have said. The issue is not cultural uniformity. It is about how well the culture reflects the right and wrong of the societies belief system. In this sense, most the above countries have better cultures than ours right now.
Look, I stand by my point: young people today are not that much worse than young people before, and there is not a way to accurately generalize an entire generation, especially in today’s pluralistic (culturally) society.
If this is what makes you happy, indeed it is what you should stand by. But in my case, I have seen enough, read enough, and traveled enough to know that it is not the case.

So I simply cannot agree with you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top