Theif on the Cross

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When did Jesus tell his apostles to go out and baptise? before his death or after his resurrection? I believe it was after his ressurection. The only baptism they had when Jesus was alive before the crucifixion was the baptism of repentance in the Jordan by John the baptist.
Here’s what the Catholic Encyclopedia says on this matter:

The more probable opinion seems to be that baptism, as a sacrament, had its origin when Christ commissioned His Apostles to baptize, as narrated in John 3 and 4. There is nothing directly in the text as to the institution, but as the Disciples acted evidently under the instruction of Christ, He must have taught them at the very outset the matter and form of the sacrament which they were to dispense. It is true that St. John Chrysostom (Homily 28 on the Gospel of John), Theophylactus (in cap. iii, Joan.), and Tertullian (On Baptism, Chapter 2) declare that the baptism given by the Disciples of Christ as narrated in these chapters of St. John was a baptism of water only and not of the Holy Ghost; but their reason is that the Holy Ghost was not given until after the Resurrection.

*All things considered, we can safely state, therefore, that Christ most probably instituted baptism before His Passion. For in the first place, as is evident from John 3 and 4, Christ certainly conferred baptism, at least by the hands of His Disciples, before His Passion. That this was an essentially different rite from John the Precursor’s baptism seems plain, because the baptism of Christ is always preferred to that of John, and the latter himself states the reason: “I baptize with water . . . [Christ] baptizeth with the Holy Ghost” (John 1). In the baptism given by the Disciples as narrated in these chapters we seem to have all the requisites of a sacrament of the New Law:

the external rite,
the institution of Christ, for they baptized by His command and mission, and
the conferring of grace, for they bestowed the Holy Ghost (John 1).
In the second place, the Apostles received other sacraments from Christ, before His Passion, as the Holy Eucharist at the Last Supper, and Holy orders (Council of Trent, Sess. XXVI, c. i). Now as baptism has always been held as the door of the Church and the necessary condition for the reception of any other sacrament, it follows that the Apostles must have received Christian baptism before the Last Supper. This argument is used by St. Augustine (Epistle 44) and certainly seems valid. To suppose that the first pastors of the Church received the other sacraments by dispensation, before they had received baptism, is an opinion with no foundation in Scripture or Tradition and devoid of verisimilitude. *
newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm#V
 
Respecting the story, there are “two” thieves because they are a picture of the “Church,” where “two” is a number type, or symbol, for “the Church.” So, those two thieves are us.

Respecting the individual, what happened is a classic operation of the salvation process. The unbaptized can only find entrance into Heaven by accessing the grace of salvation once they are past the age of reason. By doing so, they “baptize” themselves by Baptism of Desire or Baptism of Blood. These are part-and-parcel with Perfect Contrition for Sin.

Conceivably, the Good Thief’s attitude comprises either Baptism of Desire or Baptism of Blood. He was humbly abasing himself and giving Christ “free advertizing” even as the forces of our world squeezed the life out of his veins.

St, Dismas, pray for us.

–Peter
 
In certain Gospels even Dismas is said to have acted badly to Jesus when the three were hanging on their crosses. A priest once said in a homily that Dismas had a change of heart at a later point in their crucifixion and was then able to be saved. Check out the Gospels and you’ll see that both thieves were saying bad things at first to Jesus.
It doesn’t matter when he changed his mind as long as he did it at before he took his last breath. He was weak and had terrible pain. It most have been difficult for him (because of the pain) to defend Jesus, but he did it! He used his free will to cooperate with the grace of God. He could have chosen to use it otherwise.
 
It doesn’t matter when he changed his mind as long as he did it at before he took his last breath. He was weak and had terrible pain. It most have been difficult for him (because of the pain) to defend Jesus, but he did it! He used his free will to cooperate with the grace of God. He could have chosen to use it otherwise.
Yes, I know that.🙂
 
I am not a doctrinal expert, but I will share one point of view and perhaps someone wiser can correct it.

The question presumes, in some ways, that God is a mere automaton and salvation a machine that requires specific (name removed by moderator)uts and grants corresponding outputs. In all reality, God is a person - a loving and thinking being. Salvation is an act he performs by his free Grace for a sinful humanity.

The normative way in which he has instructed men to seek this grace is through “baptism for the forgiveness of sins.” Knowing full well his instructions and seeing the opportunity, we are without excuse who refuse to follow them. But we shouldn’t therefore conclude that it is somehow unfair or impossible for God to act in any other way. The catechism says in 1257 that:

“God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.”

When God commands us to be baptized and then we are told of a situation in which he saved someone without baptism, our response should not be “so it IS possible!” Of course it is possible for God to forgive sins in one who is not baptized. With God all things are possible - he could have told us we had to do a hopscotch in order to be saved and we would have said with submission “thy will be done.” This is why we seek his mercy and trust in his love for those who are not baptized. The important thing is not what sacrament he binds salvation to, but rather that we seek to gain that salvation by whatever normative means he has given to us.

To put it another way - in the parable of the laborers, the owner of the vineyard hires a man to work for a day for one denarius. He then hires men to work for part of the day and a man to work at the last hour - all for one denarius. In some ways, one can liken the thief on the cross to the man hired at the last hour - perhaps even an hour too late to receive all the normal means of salvation. He was not present when the workers were completing whatever had to be done in the second hour. But if the workers in the second hour had stopped and said - “wait a minute - you really don’t need to do this work to get paid. You just need to wait until then and work,” it would most likely not have gone over well. They were not performing an act that had a natural result and could be isolated and simplified, like a “sinner’s prayer.” Rather, they were acting in obedience to one who was merciful enough to hire them and who could have simply chosen not to pay them at all.
So the thief did not “deserve” salvation at all for his works. Neither does any upright Christian who has served God all his life. Works - and baptism - do not earn salvation, which is a product of God’s free grace distributed as he wills it.

for, “Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous?’” (Matt. 20:15)

But he has chosen to distribute it primarily through baptism and commands us to perform certain works. So by the same token, the lifelong Christian does not now have a pass to skip the years of following God because they are apparently unnecessary. Just because the thief (or an unbaptized infant, etc.) was not baptized does not mean God has not given it as a normative requirement for salvation. The last worker hired did not do whatever was to be done in the second hour, but it is probably a safe assumption that the first worker hired would not have been paid if he had refused to do it.

Read Ezekiel 33 and Matthew 7:21 also…
 
I am not a doctrinal expert, but I will share one point of view and perhaps someone wiser can correct it.

The question presumes, in some ways, that God is a mere automaton and salvation a machine that requires specific (name removed by moderator)uts and grants corresponding outputs. In all reality, God is a person - a loving and thinking being. Salvation is an act he performs by his free Grace for a sinful humanity.

The normative way in which he has instructed men to seek this grace is through “baptism for the forgiveness of sins.” Knowing full well his instructions and seeing the opportunity, we are without excuse who refuse to follow them. But we shouldn’t therefore conclude that it is somehow unfair or impossible for God to act in any other way. The catechism says in 1257 that:

“God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.”

When God commands us to be baptized and then we are told of a situation in which he saved someone without baptism, our response should not be “so it IS possible!” Of course it is possible for God to forgive sins in one who is not baptized. With God all things are possible - he could have told us we had to do a hopscotch in order to be saved and we would have said with submission “thy will be done.” This is why we seek his mercy and trust in his love for those who are not baptized. The important thing is not what sacrament he binds salvation to, but rather that we seek to gain that salvation by whatever normative means he has given to us.

To put it another way - in the parable of the laborers, the owner of the vineyard hires a man to work for a day for one denarius. He then hires men to work for part of the day and a man to work at the last hour - all for one denarius. In some ways, one can liken the thief on the cross to the man hired at the last hour - perhaps even an hour too late to receive all the normal means of salvation. He was not present when the workers were completing whatever had to be done in the second hour. But if the workers in the second hour had stopped and said - “wait a minute - you really don’t need to do this work to get paid. You just need to wait until then and work,” it would most likely not have gone over well. They were not performing an act that had a natural result and could be isolated and simplified, like a “sinner’s prayer.” Rather, they were acting in obedience to one who was merciful enough to hire them and who could have simply chosen not to pay them at all.
So the thief did not “deserve” salvation at all for his works. Neither does any upright Christian who has served God all his life. Works - and baptism - do not earn salvation, which is a product of God’s free grace distributed as he wills it.

for, “Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous?’” (St. Matt. 20:15)

But he has chosen to distribute it primarily through baptism and commands us to perform certain works. So by the same token, the lifelong Christian does not now have a pass to skip the years of following God because they are apparently unnecessary. Just because the thief (or an unbaptized infant, etc.) was not baptized does not mean God has not given it as a normative requirement for salvation. The last worker hired did not do whatever was to be done in the second hour, but it is probably a safe assumption that the first worker hired would not have been paid if he had refused to do it.

Read Ezekiel 33 and Matthew 7:21 also…
In other words, personal responsibility is still a factor, despite the fact that salvation may be possible through other means. This made me think of a couple of Scriptural verses:

*20 For if, flying from the pollutions of the world, through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they be again entangled in them and overcome: their latter state is become unto them worse than the former.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of justice, than after they have known it, to turn back from that holy commandment which was delivered to them.
22 For, that of the true proverb has happened to them: The dog is returned to his vomit: and, The sow that was washed, to her wallowing in the mire. *
2 Peter 2:20-22

Personal responsibility to obey God’s Word entangles not only the repentance of sins, but also the willingness to follow all of the precepts of God and His Church which He built (St. Matthew 16:17-19)

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10:26-31

Again, personal responsibility is crucial. Had the thief known of the ways of God prior to his own crucifixion right next to God, and had he ignored the precepts and ways of God even with full knowledge and consent, he probably would not have defended Him

*40 But the other answering, rebuked him, saying: Neither dost thou fear God, seeing thou art condemned under the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this man hath done no evil.
42 And he said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom. *
St. Luke 23:40-42

And I wonder if Jesus would have said those famous words:
*43 And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise. *
St. Luke 23:43
 
An aquaintance of mine would always pray to St Dismas for help in finding a parking place when out driving. I asked her why and she said it was because St Dismas got a ‘parking place’ in heaven at the last minute. 🙂
 
The man on the cross who had faith had no works and was not baptized. Isn’t this contrary to Catholic teaching?The thief repented on the cross and sought the mercy of Christ. He had no opportunity to submit to Baptism or to exercise his faith through keeping the commands of Christ. The Catholic Church allows that he had the Baptism of desire.

“…those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament” CCC 1258

“Every man who is ognorant of te Gospel of Christ and of His Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if had they had known its necessity” CCC 1260

“Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill His will, can be saved even if they have not been baptized” CCC 1281
 
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