Their fruits

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javid said:
I didn’t mean that.

Muhammad is a example! I’m not a Muhammadan. I said if he has good fruits, he can’t be a faulse prophet because: “nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit”

I just mean some people who have such claims, has both good and bad fruits, but according to the bible one tree can’t has both: “A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit”
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-The term is Muslim, not “Muhammadan.” The latter term is no different than calling a Catholic a “Papist,” a Fundamentalist Christian a “Fundie,” etc.
-The way in which you are interpreting Scripture still results in my above. Based on there being “good fruits” that can be found in Islam as well as “bad fruits” I would hazard a guess that the interpretation of Scripture is incorrect. This guess is also supported by Church teaching that “good fruits” can be found among all the various faiths in the world and that the Catholic faith is the real faith (i.e. not all faiths are equal in how true they are to the understanding and worship of God).
-There is also the issue of the source of the “good fruits” in Islam. Did said fruits arise from Muhammad, or did said fruits arise from those teachings of Judaism and Christianity that were incorporated into Islam?
 
RPRPsych said:
Not if it means replacing it with a violent religion opposed to the Christian faith. It’s like the parable of the demon leaving a man; if the Christian faith does not replace it, seven more worse than itself come. We are seeing those fruits today, even if they are not what Mohammed himself directly willed:
  • Wahhabism
  • Female genital mutilation
  • Honour killing
  • Terrorism
  • Anti-Semitic violence and propaganda
  • Anti-Christian violence and propaganda
  • Forced marriages
If that’s not rotten fruit, I don’t know what is. 😛
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I believe you are confusing culture with religious teachings. Aside from Wahhabism (which I’m sure I can find a Protestant version of) I can find you examples of all of those from Christian culture.
 
RPRPsych said:
The following primer is an eye-opener - it was for me; I used to be in the “liberal” crowd as far as Islam was concerned. Note that my criticism is of Islam, not Muslims. Hate the evil doctrine, love the human being created in God’s image.

jihadwatch.org/islam-101
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Your source is anything but creditable.
 
RPRPsych said:
The following primer is an eye-opener - it was for me; I used to be in the “liberal” crowd as far as Islam was concerned. Note that my criticism is of Islam, not Muslims. Hate the evil doctrine, love the human being created in God’s image.

jihadwatch.org/islam-101
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I believe oldcatholicguy has provided a correct response.

There is nothing to historically validate any of your list to ascribe to Muhammad.

The website is far from creditable. RPRPsych, have you ever read the Quran?

🙂

.
 
Servant19 said:
Can you show me official historical sources please, for Muhammad endorsing terrorism and the other things on your list?

🙂

.
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Qur’an 8:12 [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, “I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.”

Surah 9:29 is the most blatant obvious one though.

Also, Muhammad’s proclamation “If anyone changes his Islamic Religion then kill him”

There’s also the fact that the world will not end until a Jew is hiding behind a rock and the rock will speak out, “Oh slave of Allah, there is a Jew hiding behind me; kill him.”

I also agree that it’s not Muslims… it’s Islam.
 
dronald said:
Qur’an 8:12 [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, “I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.”

Surah 9:29 is the most blatant obvious one though.

Also, Muhammad’s proclamation “If anyone changes his Islamic Religion then kill him”

There’s also the fact that the world will not end until a Jew is hiding behind a rock and the rock will speak out, “Oh slave of Allah, there is a Jew hiding behind me; kill him.”

I also agree that it’s not Muslims… it’s Islam.
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answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/terrorinthebible.htm

A whole page worth of cherry picked “the Bible supports terrorism” passages. Heck, it is even from a site that uses as similar name to one that is constantly used as a “legit” source for Islam.
 
javid said:
Hi. On the other hand, Muhammad had some good fruits: He rejected paganism and expunged it in Arabia, He stopped Female baby killing which was conventional between arabs, He teached that Jesus is the Messiah, He teached that God is one,… So is he a true prophet according to Matthew7:18?

Best regards
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Using that test alone, one could say the same about athestic Communism. It also has some good fruits…right?

One does not judge whether a professed “prophet” is legitimate or not simply by their good fruits. It also goes to their belief system or doctrine. Denying the divinity of Christ is an immediate “bad fruit” proving the prophet is false. Actually, denying the Catholic Faith is an immediate disqualifer.

Consider that EGW, founder of the SDA Church, or Joseph Smith of the LDS Church are at least claming to be Christian, which in my book would put them both above Muhammad. Yet both of these are also false prophets.

(So are Luther and Calvin false prophets.)
 
RPRPsych said:
Why would you say that? Robert Spencer, who runs that site, is well-known as an expert on Islam, especially its more uncomfortable aspects. He’s even spoken on CAF. 👍
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He’s about as qualified to be deemed an expert on Islam as Mr. Dawkins is to be considered an expert on Christianity.
 
dronald said:
Unfortunately for Islam, the passages are so blatant and obvious that people recite these passages when killing others. Christianity does not carry such a burden.
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Sure it doesn’t. That’s why I can’t find pages and pages of internet sites “showing” that the Bible supports or teaches Christians to do [insert bad thing here] when I google Bible and [insert bad thing here]. :rolleyes:

Given the content of these sites, my personal views toward these sites, and forum rules concerning linking such sites you’ll have to google them yourself. You can also search this very site’s forums for past threads dealing with people cherry picking passages from the Bible. Like how the Bible “supports” rape due to Deuteronomy 22:23-24 and 22:28-29.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Sure it doesn’t. That’s why I can’t find pages and pages of internet sites “showing” that the Bible supports or teaches Christians to do [insert bad thing here] when I google Bible and [insert bad thing here]. :rolleyes:

Given the content of these sites, my personal views toward these sites, and forum rules concerning linking such sites you’ll have to google them yourself. You can also search this very site’s forums for past threads dealing with people cherry picking passages from the Bible. Like how the Bible “supports” rape due to Deuteronomy 22:23-24 and 22:28-29.
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Again, you missed what I said. You don’t have Christians quoting Deut 22 and going out to rape others while quoting Deuteronomy as an excuse. The killing that is done in the name of Islam is attested to in their sources and done in the name of Islam based on the words of their prophet and god.
 
dronald said:
Again, you missed what I said. You don’t have Christians quoting Deut 22 and going out to rape others while quoting Deuteronomy as an excuse. The killing that is done in the name of Islam is attested to in their sources and done in the name of Islam based on the words of their prophet and god.
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Really? I guess you missed the class in school that covered the time period in European history in which burning witches at the stake was justified with Exodus 22:18. Would you like other examples of people using Bible passages to support their actions? Like the Westboro Baptist Church? Or the Lord’s Resistance Army? Isn’t there a whole segment of Protestantism that supports Israel due to passages in the OT?
 
jakasaki said:
I can’t believe you used that Islamic site which is so much anti-Christian and especially anti-Catholic:
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Now you know how Muslims feel when they see Catholic posters linking anti-Islamic (as in “Islam is evil!”) sites. Gee, if only Catholics had some sort of centralized organization that not only had the authority and expertise to speak about religion, but also had a presence on the internet. Heck, they could even use the “.va” domain since no one apparently ever bothers to listen to the people who currently own it.
 
RPRPsych said:
Why would you say that? Robert Spencer, who runs that site, is well-known as an expert on Islam, especially its more uncomfortable aspects. He’s even spoken on CAF. 👍
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oldcatholicguy said:
He’s about as qualified to be deemed an expert on Islam as Mr. Dawkins is to be considered an expert on Christianity.
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If CAF didn’t believe that Robert Spencer was not an “expert on Islam”, they would not support him and allow him to be right here on this CAF site.

Also, he has been on EWTN, you know the global, Catholic TV, Radio, and Catholic News agencies.

According to these above Catholic medias, they DO believe he is an expert on Islam.
 
jakasaki said:
If CAF didn’t believe that Robert Spencer was not an “expert on Islam”, they would not support him and allow him to be right here on this CAF site.

Also, he has been on EWTN, you know the global, Catholic TV, Radio, and Catholic News agencies.

According to these above Catholic medias, they DO believe he is an expert on Islam.
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Please list Mr. Spencer’s qualifications for being an expert on Islam.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Please list Mr. Spencer’s qualifications for being an expert on Islam.
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You need to ask CAF & EWTN this question because it is they who believe in Robert Spencers work and expertise on Islam and they support him!
 
jakasaki said:
You need to ask CAF & EWTN this question because it is they who believe in Robert Spencers work and expertise on Islam and they support him!
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So in other words you can’t find any. As for CAF and EWTN, would you like me to present you a list of various individuals with views that run counter to Church teachings that have spoken at Catholic universities? I’m asking because apparently if one speaks or is asked to speak by an organization associated with the Church they must be an expert and their views must be supported by the Church.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
So in other words you can’t find any. As for CAF and EWTN, would you like me to present you a list of various individuals with views that run counter to Church teachings that have spoken at Catholic universities? I’m asking because apparently if one speaks or is asked to speak by an organization associated with the Church they must be an expert and their views must be supported by the Church.
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I’m not doing any research for you regarding why Catholics use Robert Spencers information on Islam.

Google is your friend.

I couldn’t care less of what you provide for me regarding your post above.

Just because one presents something at a Catholic University does not mean he/she is Catholic.

Robert Spencer is however a Catholic.
 
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