Their Hollow Inheritance

[Duke_of_Mantua]

drazin.com/index.phtml

I was wondering if anyone here has read this site. It has some pretty far off opinions claiming Christ is a rip-off of Buddha and Krishna.

This is also a reminder for me of why we shouldn’t bend over backwards for some of these religious leaders who want to amend our liturgy and beliefs; they won’t think highly of us no matter what we do to make them happy.

Just look over the things they say about Our Lord and tell me I am wrong. I don’t even know where to begin in refuting these freaks.

 

[CarolsDaughter]

I think you got that URL from something I’d posted in one of the Jewish threads.

That website is intended as an informational site for uneducated JEWS who might be interested in converting to Christianity. It has no bearing for Gentiles at all.

Jews do not try to convert Gentiles to Judaism, though we welcome them if they seek us out.

And do you really think it is Christian to refer to the website founders as “freaks”?

Maybe Christian missionaries need to learn something: if you don’t want to take the risk that your religious beliefs will be dissected and proven erroneous, maybe you should not try to proselytize Jews? Because any reputable rabbi can easily show why Jews do not need to convert to Christianity.

If Christians never tried to convert Jews, we would never create websites like the one you link to. We do it ONLY to SHOW WHY we do not accept Christian belief.

 

[Freshman88]

And we disagree with you. We think it is a very horrible thing to try and bring Jews back to their faith by ripping them away from the New and Everlasting Covenant. The Church will work against counter-missionary activies, it is the mandate of the Church to spread the Gospel and accept those who after hearing the Good News wish to convert. We are not forcing them - This is freedom of religion.

The website is horrible and erroneous if it does indeed say such things, and against the work of Christ and his Holy Church.

 

[Duke_of_Mantua]

That website is intended as an informational site for uneducated JEWS who might be interested in converting to Christianity. It has no bearing for Gentiles at all.

If what that website states is true, it would be an understatement to say it has no bearing for Gentiles considering the site’s claim reveals all Catholics are breaking one of the Ten Commandments and are destined for eternal fire for worshipping a false god. No bearing indeed!

And do you really think it is Christian to refer to the website founders as “freaks”?

I don’t mean anything inflammatory by it. When your beliefs are out of the mainstream, even for jews, then it is fair to consider it abnormal

Because any reputable rabbi can easily show why Jews do not need to convert to Christianity.

The only thing I read on that website is coincidences and “oral tradition”, which the jews use as proof of the “interpretation” of the Old Testament. Isn’t it funny that jews can interpret the word of God but Catholics can’t?

If Christians never tried to convert Jews, we would never create websites like the one you link to. We do it ONLY to SHOW WHY we do not accept Christian belief.

Look, I am not starting a fight with you. You have your beliefs and we have ours. I just don’t understand why radical jews have to espouse such malicious claims when it is simply based on happenstance and strictly jewish interpretations of the Old Testament. That site doesn’t test my faith; it tests my patience with jews. I try to pray for them, but some of their hypocrisies and “I’m right and you’re wrong” arguments are making it hard for me to do it with sincerity.

 

[CarolsDaughter]

In the Middle Ages, the church would demand that rabbis go to a specified site to engage in what came to be known as “disputations”. One of the most infamous was the Disputation of Tortosa.

At these disputations, the church would say that a bishop and a rabbi would debate the merits of their respective faiths.

If the Jews lost, they would all have to convert to Catholicism.

I don’t remember what the result would be if the Jews won, because the church probably assumed the Jewish argument would not win, but it did.

The result was that the church ordered all copies of the Talmud to be rounded up and burned in the public square. The church figured it was the Talmud that was keeping Jews Jewish.

Thank God America exists now, because this blessed nation has freedom of religion enshrined in our Constitution. I shudder to think what life would be like for my people if we did not live in this God-ordained nation, with its protections for those of all religions…even yours. Because remember, in Europe Catholics were also often victimized by the Established church in many countries after the Reformation.

But getting back to the theme of the thread, you have to understand that Judaism does not proselytize. we do not seek converts. We simply wish to worship in our own way, and we respect your right to do the same.

I don’t know what you mean about that website saying Catholics are idolaters…Gentiles are NOT REQUIRED to follow Torah, and it is TORAH that forbids idolatry anyway. It is JEWS who cannot engage in idolatry.

Judaism teaches that the just and righteous of ALL nations have a share in the World to Come. See my sig line Bible verse for more info, it really sums it all up.

BUT…when Christians…of ANY denomination…come to US, and demand we join THEIR religion, we have the right to show WHY we do not accept other religions.

Yet when we DO show WHY, we are penalized for it, or are accused of “attacking” the other religion.

If the other religion had LEFT US ALONE, none of that would have happened.

We have no desire to attack your religion. we believe Gentiles are free to worship however they wish as long as it harms no one. But God gave an eternal Torah and Covenant to us, which we are dutybound to follow. Gentiles do not have to follow it, which is why we do not seek converts.

Do you at all understand?

 

[Freshman88]

Yup understand perfectly, and we won’t stop, why don’t you understand that?

We have a mission to evangelize - if you wish to counter-act that evangelization, so be it, but we will also show the errors of counter-missionary work.

I don’t understand why you don’'t understand that.

You can show why Jews should remain Jews, and we will work to prove you wrong.

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

Carol’sDaughter,

I have a question for you. What have the Jews done to deserve such a severe chastisement from God? What do I mean? The Jewish religions of the old Testimate has not existed, in practice, for almost 2000 years. In AD 70, the Jewish Temple was destroyed, never to be built again. In addition, God allowed the Priestly lineage to be lost, which means they could not practice the old Law if they wanted to.

I once spoke to a very well informed Jew. When I asked him these questions, and more, he responded by saying that the Jews do realize that something happened in about the year AD30 that caused God to punish them. Wasn’t it in about the year 30 that the scarlet thread stopped turning white?

So tell me, what did the Jews do in about the year AD 30 to deserve such a severe punishment from God - a punishment that has lasted for almost 2000 years, which is about- 1/3 of the time that man has existed on earth (according to the Jewish calendar)?

In your opinion, what was the cause of this?

 

[HollyDolly]

I for one don’t have any great urge to convert Jews.
If they ask me about the Catholic Church because they are curious about things,I’ll try to explain it to them.
A lot of Jews marry Catholics,especially it seems where my sister lives,New York,so there must be some things that are similar or connect the two faiths in ways,even though the Church in the past has had a not so good record of dealings with the Jewish faith.Don’t hear much about Jews marrying Evangelicals that i know of.
Most Catholics may not know that there is always a candle
incased in red glass burning on the altar,to signify God is present. This custom I believe came from the Jews,from the story of the Maccabees and the miracle of Hannakah.You of course
know the story of them having only a little oil for the menorah in the temple,perhasp enough for just one day. But they had enough oil for eight days.There is or was a feast of the Holy Maccabees in the Catholic Church.

People Jews should be afraid of are people like John Hagee,pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio,and who
endorsed John McCain. They do this thing,A Night to Honor Isreal,
and make a big show of being friends with Jews.Feel like going
to this thing some time and telling them don’t fall for it.
He’s no friend of the Jews,just using them for his own end.
There are threads on him here.he and other evangelicals want to convert the jews,only they are sneaky about it.
We were raised to live and let live,if people ask about the Church
answer their questions,but don’t hit them on the head with it.

My dad grew up in Milwaukee,grandpa and my dad could speak Yiddish,and I’m sure Uncle Tom and grandma could too.
The family had business and social dealings with jews,and i recall my dad talking about being invited to a highschool classmate’s home for Passover.My grandparents had no problem with him going there,and said it was fine. My sister has gone to Bar Mitzvahs and such with Ross for his family.Even though we aren’t jewish,his family accepts and likes my sister.
We all get along fine.
That’s why I don’t understand the vehemnce some people have that Jews convert to the Church.
They should send more time on protestants,who after all,their ancestors were originally Catholic. I wish people would just stop with trying to force the issue.
Can’t get to that website the poster mentioned here at work.
But are they sure it’s Jewish? Many protestant sites say the same thing about Catholics.
Sorry to ramble on so,it’s early and haven’t had any coffee yet.

 

[Freshman88]

HollyDolly, you speak of evangelizing Jews as if it were violent but what is so violent about bringing souls into God’s Holy Church?

The Church is to convert all peoples, without exception.

The Church is the people of God, we indeed have many practices from our Jewish heritage including the candle you speak of. This is because the nation of Israel existed as a precursor to the Church and so it is only natural that we carry on much of the traditions from the old Covenant.

 

[twopekinguys]

In the Middle Ages, the church would demand that rabbis go to a specified site to engage in what came to be known as “disputations”. One of the most infamous was the Disputation of Tortosa.

At these disputations, the church would say that a bishop and a rabbi would debate the merits of their respective faiths.

If the Jews lost, they would all have to convert to Catholicism.

I don’t remember what the result would be if the Jews won, because the church probably assumed the Jewish argument would not win, but it did.

The result was that the church ordered all copies of the Talmud to be rounded up and burned in the public square. The church figured it was the Talmud that was keeping Jews Jewish.

Thank God America exists now, because this blessed nation has freedom of religion enshrined in our Constitution. I shudder to think what life would be like for my people if we did not live in this God-ordained nation, with its protections for those of all religions…even yours. Because remember, in Europe Catholics were also often victimized by the Established church in many countries after the Reformation.

But getting back to the theme of the thread, you have to understand that Judaism does not proselytize. we do not seek converts. We simply wish to worship in our own way, and we respect your right to do the same.

I don’t know what you mean about that website saying Catholics are idolaters…Gentiles are NOT REQUIRED to follow Torah, and it is TORAH that forbids idolatry anyway. It is JEWS who cannot engage in idolatry.

Judaism teaches that the just and righteous of ALL nations have a share in the World to Come. See my sig line Bible verse for more info, it really sums it all up.

BUT…when Christians…of ANY denomination…come to US, and demand we join THEIR religion, we have the right to show WHY we do not accept other religions.

Yet when we DO show WHY, we are penalized for it, or are accused of “attacking” the other religion.

If the other religion had LEFT US ALONE, none of that would have happened.

We have no desire to attack your religion. we believe Gentiles are free to worship however they wish as long as it harms no one. But God gave an eternal Torah and Covenant to us, which we are dutybound to follow. Gentiles do not have to follow it, which is why we do not seek converts.

Do you at all understand?

I have a question. Why haven’t you answered the questions asked of you on the thread **you **started saying you were leaving a couple of days ago?

 

[mschrank]

Oh, the whole copycat myth thing. Bad scholarship at its best.

tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html

Some people go even as far to say that the Gospel of Matthew is a lift of Homer. No joke. I guess they figured Jews in the Alexandrian tradition would have never read Homer, and that in general they would have never heard of the various ‘copycat’ sources either… I mean, only being arguably the most educated people in the whole world. Oh, I forgot, everyone was essentially retarded before the 17th century and would not have picked up on any copycat similarity.

 

[Kaninchen]

I once spoke to a very well informed Jew. When I asked him these questions, and more, he responded by saying that the Jews do realize that something happened in about the year AD30 that caused God to punish them. Wasn’t it in about the year 30 that the scarlet thread stopped turning white?

So tell me, what did the Jews do in about the year AD 30 to deserve such a severe punishment from God - a punishment that has lasted for almost 2000 years, which is about- 1/3 of the time that man has existed on earth (according to the Jewish calendar)?

In your opinion, what was the cause of this?

We made the mistake a number of peoples made - we really, really, really annoyed the Romans (more than once).

Unlike many of the others we’re still around.

 

[Freshman88]

We made the mistake a number of peoples made - we really, really, really annoyed the Romans (more than once).

Unlike many of the others we’re still around.

Not only did we really, really, really, annoy the Romans (more than once) we also converted them.

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

Not only did we really, really, really, annoy the Romans (more than once) we also converted them.

That’s exactly what I was going to say.

 

[puzzleannie]

ooops I just got off the Peeps thread and though this was a chocolate bunny thread.

it mystifies me why we spend time on this forum debating bogus claims from kooky websites. can’t we have a kooky website forum for that purpose and keep this forum as the discussion site for those interested in remembering and restoring traditional Catholic worship, education and values?

 

[Kaninchen]

Not only did we really, really, really, annoy the Romans (more than once) we also converted them.

Rather presumptuous, one set of Romans (Christian) defeated another set of Romans (Pagan). Unless your ancestors were Romans who were around at the time, they were just later converts.

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

Rather presumptuous, one set of Romans (Christian) defeated another set of Romans (Pagan).

That’s what happens when you have God on your side. You should realize that. Just look at the battles won by the Jews during the Old Covenant.

 

[Freshman88]

Rather presumptuous, one set of Romans (Christian) defeated another set of Romans (Pagan). Unless your ancestors were Romans who were around at the time, they were just later converts.

One does not have be a physical ancestor of an early Christian in order to share in the Church’s legacy.

We, is a reference to the Church, not a race.

Rather unfounded of you to demand that I be of Roman heritage in order to take pride in the fruits of my faith.

 

[Kaninchen]

One does not have be a physical ancestor of an early Christian to share in the Church’s legacy.

It would be rather difficult for you to ‘be a physical ancestor of an early Christian’.

We, is a reference to the Church, not a race.

Where does ‘race’ come into it? Race was not a concept the Romans would have recognized, the Roman world was a mosaic of peoples.

Rather unfounded of you to demand that I be of Roman heritage in order to take pride in the fruits of my Church.

I did absolutely nothing of the sort!

I was merely pointing out a ‘category problem’. We as a ‘people’ were devastated (multiply) by the Romans, you are the heirs of the Romans who defeated other Romans.

 

[Freshman88]

Rather presumptuous, one set of Romans (Christian) defeated another set of Romans (Pagan).

This does not diminish the fact that Pagans persecuted Christians and despite facing oppression these Christians were eventually able to convert their former pagan oppressors. I fail to see how their citizenship has any bearing on this whatsoever.

Unless your ancestors were Romans who were around at the time, they were just later converts.

This makes no sense. My physical ancestors were indeed later converts, how does this change anything?