Theological Dilemma, Please Help!

[Brad]

Lillith:

But not as a catechumen. I don’t want Jew_man’s first experience with the Catholic church to be fighting off gay men, fighting heresy, and confronting a priest to take charge (which he should be doing anyway)

A catechumen is supposed to be enjoying his journey, learning the faith, embracing new forms of prayer, looking forward to Christ in the Eucharist…

For his own sake he should leave, If after telling the priest about the personal assaults he has recieved, things are not quickly resolved!

Ok. Perhaps not as a catechumen. But where is the rest of the congregation?

Unfortunately, it is difficult to find locations where there isn’t somthing going on that should not be.

 

[Brad]

Jew_Man_73:

I don’t have a sponsor. No one has said anything to me about a sponsor, although I’ve read on Catholic websites that it’s standard for catechumens to have a sponsor. I wish I did. If I had a sponsor, I’d probably go to that person first before I did anything else.

By the way, one of these gay men is a convert. I was told (by him) that our RCIA director allowed him to go through RCIA and be confirmed knowing all along that he was an active homosexual. This infuriates me.

It should infuriate you. It makes me extremely skeptical of the pastor as well.

 

[Brad]

Jew_Man_73:

Thanks. This parish does have Eucharistic Adoration once a month, but the Host is frequently left unattended. But that’s another matter, I suppose.

Left unattended??? Good grief. Finding another parish is a gooood idea.

 

[Brad]

Jew_Man_73:

Thanks. I’ve already been thinking about what I would put in a letter, if it comes to that.

A word of caution. I wrote such a letter with significant documentation and reference to Church documents. The Bishop’s office sent a copy to the pastor who wrote me an incredibly nasty and condemning letter. There are wolves out there. Be prayed up and lots of Adoration.

 

[LSK]

Jew_Man_73:

My roommate said the same thing, that maybe G-d wants to use us as catalysts to clean house. I don’t understand why He’d use us though! We’re so new at this!

I was told that one of Blessed Theresa of Calcutta’s favorite sayings was (and I am paraphrasing) something like: I know Jesus will never give me more than I can handle, but sometimes I wish He didn’t think so highly of me.

Hang in there, my brother. And if you and your roommate are ever in Modesto, California those of us at St. Joseph’s Parish welcome you with open arms!:dancing:

 

[Jew_Man_73]

Zooey:

JM, I am sad that this has happened. I have been thinking about you, & praying for you. I will continue to do so.
I think that what people are saying is that satan somehow senses that there is something that you can do for God that is very special, so he is trying to make your life more difficult. (This happened often in Bible days, & has continued down throughout Christian history).
I confess that I smiled when you asked “what good am I for something like this”, because just the fact that you have found the true Messiah qualifies you for all kinds of things!! (If you thought that you were especially qualified, that would, you see, show a spirit that was not aligned with Christ; but instead, you are ready to defend Him in this painful situation).
You are always in my prayers. I will say a rosary for you, asking for strength, & wisdom to deal with this. Please keep in touch with us here!
God bless.

Thank you for your prayers, Zooey. They’re appreciated very much. My roommate made a comment to me yesterday, and he said something similar to what you said in your post. He said that G-d must have something great planned for us in order for us to be attacked like this. I hope so.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

puzzleannie:

this is sexual harrassment and is a violation of the code of ethical conduct which is supposed to be signed by all parish volunteers and employees. Bring it to the attention of your pastor in writing with facts, dates. If no response within one week send it to the Vicar General or Chancellor, or whoever in your diocese is designated to deal with these complaints of misconduct. If no response in a month contact the bishop directly. All complaints must be complete, accurate, in writing, signed and dated. If it persists to the point of stalking it can even become a criminal complaint with local authorities. If you observe this behavior when minors are present it should be reported to child protective services.

Thank you. I’ve been thinking the same thing, that this harassment must be illegal. I have to admit that I haven’t taken any action yet. I’ve been praying about it and fasting this week.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

Br. Rich SFO:

I would also suggest that first you address a letter to the Pastor even though by what you posted I suspect it will have litle effect. Simply stating that you are finding many descripencies between what is being presented in RCIA and the Catechism.

After you get no reply from him. Then send the Bishop a letter basically saying the same thing. that this is really confusing with the RCIA Catechists teaching one thing and the Catechism saying another. The shorter the better. You don’t need to go into much detail. If he wants more he will reply and ask.

That is how I would approach the Catechetical issue.

Puzzleannie makes great suggestions on how to deal with the Pastoral issues.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

VociMike:

Here’s how to find your bishop: usccb.org/dioceses.htm

I think you should talk to your pastor before writing the bishop. Ignoring for a moment what they do in their own home, the continued vulgar sexual innuendo at church functions (e.g. choir) is entirely inappropriate. It is not “loving” but sin-abetting to tolerate it. The fact that they’re spreading slander about you and your roomate is even worse. The pastor must put a stop to these activities at the very least. If he doesn’t then is the time to go to the bishop.

As far as leaving the parish due to two people, remmember that if you do so they will still be there poisoning the parish for the other parishioners. Better to at least try and do something about the situation first.

Thank you. I agree, to allow these men to continue in their sin and poison other people’s minds isn’t love.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

Lillith:

Jew-Man…I just wanted to let you know that I love the way that you show reverence to G-d by not spelling out his name…and I will be adopting this practice from now on.

I think this answers the question too…teacher.

Thank you Lillith! That means alot to me! I’m not worthy to spell out the name of G-d, so I don’t. (It’s a common Jewish practice.)

What do you mean by “teacher” by the way?

 

[Jew_Man_73]

CARose:

JM,

God has always made a point of using the weakest to accomplish his biggest tasks, so of course, selecting you to clean house when you are so new to the faith is just like Him. Trust in God, He will strengthen you as long as you remember always that this is His task and you are merely the tool He has selected. A tool does not direct the task, but rather takes it’s direction from the Master.

You may want to start focusing on the Eucharist which you have mentioned is frequently left unattended. Spend time with Christ when He would otherwise be left alone and see if you can’t find a way of encouraging others to also spend time in adoration. Perhaps you could suggest this to the Choir director and the DRE, as both of them sound like they could use more time coming to know Christ more personally. Just as you helped Joan learn that there was no Pope Joan, so you can also enlighten her to the beauty of spending time with Christ in the Eucharist.

I think that right now, a significant amount of time in prayer as close to Christ as possible would do wonders for helping you discern how to proceed according to His plan.

You have been much blessed and with your cooperation Christ can do much through you.

You will remain in my prayers,

CARose

Well, if G-d uses people when they’re at their weakest, that would explain why He might use me. I feel like the weakest person on Earth right now. My parish is having another Eucharistic Adoration the first weekend of July, and I’m considering taking all the open slots. (I’m sure there will be many, there normally are.) It’s wrong for the Messiah in the Eucharist to be left alone.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

YinYangMom:

I think you must trust in the Holy Spirit here…
Just as Moses did…(though I don’t believe he knew Him as the Holy Spirit, of course)…
God sends us where He needs us, and He gives us the words, skills, resources we need to do His will, on that we can rely.
Remember that it really isn’t you doing anything…it is the Holy Spirit working through you to do God’s will.
Trust in Him and you will find the strength, courage and conviction to serve Him well.

We will pray for you.

The Holy Spirit is in the TANAKH? Where? That was the Holy Spirit who spoke to Moses? Did He appear elsewhere in the TANAKH?

 

[Jew_Man_73]

YinYangMom:

Also,

I’m more concerned about the “Judas parish” statement…
if the term was used by faithful catholics in their attempt to warn you about the parish, then I understand the term and context well.

But if the parishioners themselves view their parish as a “Judas parish” and are proud about it…then that’s a real problem for you.

A Judas parish is one which betrays Christ…
as you can sense from the RCIA director’s teachings, you may very well be in such a parish.

Yet you speak about other orthodox members being part of the parish. Invite them over for tea or something to discuss your observations…you can tell them since you are seeking to enter the Church you have questions about certain things you’ve seen and been told in your training which seem to be contradictory and that you would appreciate their help in making sense of it all. The orthodox members should be more than happy to accommodate you and in the process get motivated to reclaim their parish.

Thank you for the suggestions. I know a few people that I feel comfortable enough to approach.

Also, the term “Judas parish” was used by some devout Catholic acquaintances of mine who are not involved with this parish. I’ve never heard anyone from this parish use the term. By the way, the majority of the people at this parish are Protestant converts, even the RCIA director. There are very few cradle Catholics here.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

WynCatholic:

A few quick observations for you to mix into the stew:

1. G-d has a plan for you in this situation that you find yourself. Rejoice in that- for His grace is abundantly sufficient. so is His wisdom.
   2.In my opinion, it is not wise for you to reference the one person’s supposed attraction to you. It sets you into the classic homophobic caricature… and you will be seen to be in the wrong.
2. approaching those in authority as the student about the discrepancy between the Catachism and what is taught in RCIA is probably the best approach.
   4.Their use of the gossip is another trap. their defence is that they don’t regard it as slander…and that you must be homophobic to object to the characterization. your question to the priest should take this into account and focus primarily on the sin of gossip commited against you and your roomate.
   wayne
   ps welcome to the family, I’m new myself.
   pps I like John Paul II 's Theology of the body for a perspective on sexualityis neither puritanical or purient. … and it still fully supports the church’s position regarding sexuality and expressing sexuality in the Christian

Thank you for the suggestions, and for the welcome. G-d bless, and welcome to you too!

 

[Jew_Man_73]

neophyte:

Hey, Jew_man,
Haven’t spoken to you in a while, but I’ve been thinking about you. I certainly can’t give you any suggestions on par with what you’ve already got, but know that you’re in my prayers.

2 Corinthians 1:3-7

Thank you very much for your prayers!

 

[Jew_Man_73]

antiaphrodite:

those who should know better aren’t doing God’s will. now He has chosen you, a new convert, to repair His Church. (or at least, get construction on the way ) i think it’s wonderful. so like God.

If that’s the case, then I guess G-d really does work in mysterious ways.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

CARose:

Antiaphrodite,

Isn’t it a kick to see how God tests whether we’re willing to play the role of fool for him, to humble ourselves to his plan. It so reminds me of St. Francis, early in his conversion, when praying to the Crucifix in San Damiano, and Christ speaks to him from the cross, telling him “Francis, Go now and repair my church, which you can see is falling down”. Now this was just before the Protestant revolt, but Francis thinks Christ means the physical Church building is what is being referred to. Turns out, as time goes on, he fully discerns that he’s being called to reform the church, for it was full of decay from within the clergy and the religious orders.

But at the onset of following Christ’s call, St. Francis was the least prepared to carry out such a task, but he said Yes and prayed for guidance each step of the way. It was in his humble assent to what God asked that much was able to be accomplished. When he sought Papal approval for his Order, the Pope at the time had a vision of St. Francis holding up a falling down church, St. John Laterine (one of the 4 main Basilica’s in Rome). The next day, the person of his vision (St. Francis) enters for an audience with the pope. Gosh, how disposed do you think the pope was to listen to and grant his request?

Through Christ, amazing things can be done by the smallest messenger, as long as we remain small so that He can grow in and through us.

God Bless ya’ JM, God’s got something in mind for you. Don’t 'cha just wish he’d let you in on the whole secret up front. But then that wouldn’t require faith, would it?

CARose

Thank you, and G-d bless you too! If anything good comes out of this, I hope I end up being stronger and more faithful.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

Brad:

A word of caution. I wrote such a letter with significant documentation and reference to Church documents. The Bishop’s office sent a copy to the pastor who wrote me an incredibly nasty and condemning letter. There are wolves out there. Be prayed up and lots of Adoration.

This is exactly what I’m concerned about, and why I’m still in prayer over this.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

LSK:

I was told that one of Blessed Theresa of Calcutta’s favorite sayings was (and I am paraphrasing) something like: I know Jesus will never give me more than I can handle, but sometimes I wish He didn’t think so highly of me.

Hang in there, my brother. And if you and your roommate are ever in Modesto, California those of us at St. Joseph’s Parish welcome you with open arms!:dancing:

In love Mother Teresa! I have a rosary with her image and a relic of hers on it! I take it with me wherever I go. Thanks for the welcome too!

 

[Jew_Man_73]

Hi everyone,

 I just want to let everyone know about some interesting new developments that have taken place today.  I'm still surprised at it all.  I found out today that the RCIA director of the parish is going to be leaving.  Apparently she and her husband are going to be moving out of state.  In addition to being the RCIA director, she's also the parish secretary.  She contacted my roommate and asked him if he would be interested in taking her job as the parish secretary.  She said that if he's interested, she'd train him.  (Only for the secretary position, of course.  Not the RCIA position.)  

 Also, the DRE is leaving too.  She also is moving, and the search has already begun for a new one.

 Please pray that the new DRE and RCIA director are orthodox, and will undo the damage that has been done here.  I for one am optimistic.  I see this as a great opportunity to possibly get some orthodox people in these positions.  

 Also, my choir director called me today and shared some things with me.  She began by telling me that she believes G-d brought me into her life for a reason.  She said that she realizes her spirituality has been lacking for a while, and that I inspire her to want to be more devoted to G-d.  And here's what really shocked me:  she said that she was wrong to allow these two gay men to be on the choir.  She said she should have refused, since she knew about their relationship from the start.  This is a total turnaround from a few days ago!

 I'm supposed to go to a parish fundraiser dinner/play tomorrow evening and sit at the same table as my choir director.  I was planning to stay home after all these things started happening, but now I'm planning to go because of her phone call.  Please pray.  Pray for me and my choir director, and pray that some good will come out of tomorrow evening.  Thanks!  :)