Theology of Desire

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Michael_David said:
Yes… but that comes later. How much later if time is not relevant, I do not know… will have to wait and see.
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It would see, though, to me, that that this bodily resurrected state would be the end toward which everything was directed. So I don’t think it makes sense to reject bodily desires because they will not be there in some intermediate state. (Some speculate that we will not even be conscious of the time we are minus our bodies.)
 
Michael_David said:
But… is the conscience already there, forming the desires? Even a 2 year old knows they did wrong when they bite their playmate, or take another’s toy. This seen by their actions after they have done it. It comes down to the very basic ‘desire’ to love and be loved. First by one’s parents, then one’s peer’s, and friend’s, then spouse, and family, then the boss and work-mate’s, and on it goes… hopefully finding God’s love in all this.
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I think its probably fair to say that these are inborn traits in some form. (Even dogs show guilty feelings.) But life experience is what fills the conscience with particulars.

But you also raise another key point: children have no concept of God but they do understand the love of their parents (or the lack thereof). The progression you describe is a very logical one that involves not only having and pursuing desires but satisfying the desires of others. After all, all our ideas about God’s love are expressed in earthly metaphors (e.g. God the loving, caring Father).
 
walshy said:
Desire is God given.It is when we want more than what we need that we come into conflict.Without food, sex, money and lifes other esenstials the human rase cannot servive.But when our selfish hearts demand more, and more we become sick bodily and spirtualy.This is when we run to Our Lady are spirtual mother to guide us back to Jesus.
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I’m not so sure that quantity is the right measure, though. It’s not simply a measure of what we need but also what others around us need and how such needs, and abilities, interact. So, yes, there are essentials that we need to survive but is mere survival really that great? Should I discourage my children from desiring more than they need to subsist?
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
I’m not so sure that quantity is the right measure, though. It’s not simply a measure of what we need but also what others around us need and how such needs, and abilities, interact. So, yes, there are essentials that we need to survive but is mere survival really that great? Should I discourage my children from desiring more than they need to subsist?
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Probably we should, but the capitalistic society that we live in discourges us from discouraging our children from desiring more. Jesus really did tell his followers to sell everything, give it to the poor and only take one set of clothing.

Having too many material things really does make one lose communion with God. I guess we should try to simplify our lives, really pratice almsgiving, and keep our minds and hearts directed toward God.

However, we are human. We err, we sin. We are forgiven. Praise God!
 
If you can aford steak eat it.
Its when we want steak morning noon and night
Its when need turns to want then to greed that I have to be careful.
To live simply does not mean to go without.
 
walshy said:
If you can aford steak eat it.
Its when we want steak morning noon and night
Its when need turns to want then to greed that I have to be careful.
To live simply does not mean to go without.
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You’ve got a point. Actually if you ate steak every night, you wouldn’t even appreciate it. Same with other types of over consuming, buying things you don’t need. I do think there should be an element of self-denial in life though. Going without things is good for people.
 
When I talk I talk about me.To deny self, to go without is easy said harder to do.
Jesus asks me to deny my wants and at times i find this easy at others I eat ten bags of crisps in a row.But by not giving up, by continualy going back to Jesus and asking for help
I can keep my desires in some sort of order.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
It would see, though, to me, that that this bodily resurrected state would be the end toward which everything was directed. So I don’t think it makes sense to reject bodily desires because they will not be there in some intermediate state. (Some speculate that we will not even be conscious of the time we are minus our bodies.)
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Yes, one can look at it that my spirit was made for my body… and, if I end up on the right side of the abyss, it will be that way again.

But in the here-and-now: the body is terminal while the spirit is immortal. And in that spirit, I’m trying everything I know to extend the body’s life-span… even so far as trying to lead a type of life God wants me to, so as the body and spirit will be re-united in the future.

This looking far-sightedly, while living near-sightedly.
 
Here is another angle on the subject:

Is it Catholic or un-Catholic to love life?
 
And another angle: is the body submissive to the spirit? Or is the spirit submissive to the body? And with the mind in the middle to ‘translate’ one to the other…

Think survival instinct, say on the battlefield or as a police officer; even what is called maternal/paternal instinct toward one’s child.

Are these of the spirit toward preserving the body and offspring? If the mind is simply a ‘processor’ of information… where does that ‘impulse’ come from?
 
Michael_David said:
And another angle: is the body submissive to the spirit? Or is the spirit submissive to the body? And with the mind in the middle to ‘translate’ one to the other…
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This is, I think, a very good question. My answer is that they are both essential which is why I am skeptical of disembodied spiritual heaven and favor the concept of a bodily resurrection.

Clearly if the spirit is submissive to the body then you have a human animal, nothing more. But the body and it’s functions seem to be essential to the human spirit in some way
Michael_David said:
Think survival instinct, say on the battlefield or as a police officer; even what is called maternal/paternal instinct toward one’s child. Are these of the spirit toward preserving the body and offspring? If the mind is simply a ‘processor’ of information… where does that ‘impulse’ come from?
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The body (as a product of evolution) seems to provide a platform for the soul. And it is one that seems designed to steer us toward God. But it is not sufficent, hence revelation.
 
A desire rises within me to be financaly secure, nothing wrong with that.
I gain employment work hard earn good money.
Its not enough, I want more to buy nise things, nothing wrong with that.
I work over time at the exspence of spending time with my family.
I neglect prayer time, I seek more financal gain.I move from needy to greedy.
I hoard money for fear of losing what I have.I have left my self open to spritual attack.
Greed opens the door for a thousand ways for the Devil to enter in.
Everything has a oriegn in my heart.I cannot blame outside enfluences when need turns to want, turns to greed.Only a strong faith that the Lord won’t turn from me if I fall.But show mercy and forgive me.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
It’s good to love life, but not to hang onto it at the expense of everything.
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Jesus example is perhaps appropriate here: “Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.” (John 15:13)

I always find it interesting, though, that Jesus said “for his friends.”
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
Jesus example is perhaps appropriate here: “Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.” (John 15:13)

I always find it interesting, though, that Jesus said “for his friends.”
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yes but he also said to love your enemies!
 
walshy said:
A desire rises within me to be financaly secure, nothing wrong with that.
I gain employment work hard earn good money.
Its not enough, I want more to buy nise things, nothing wrong with that.
I work over time at the exspence of spending time with my family.
I neglect prayer time, I seek more financal gain.I move from needy to greedy.
I hoard money for fear of losing what I have.I have left my self open to spritual attack.
Greed opens the door for a thousand ways for the Devil to enter in.
Everything has a oriegn in my heart.I cannot blame outside enfluences when need turns to want, turns to greed.Only a strong faith that the Lord won’t turn from me if I fall.But show mercy and forgive me.
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Great post. Very true!👍
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
I always find it interesting, though, that Jesus said “for his friends.”
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So do I!

But I look at the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve… before the fall. What was the relationship between God and Adam?

Then, looking at Revelations and the New Earth and the New Heaven… when we will again have our bodies… what will be our relationship with God?

Friendship is nice…
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
yes but he also said to love your enemies!
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Yes, but we cannot equate the two (loving enemies does not make friends), otherwise we would end up laying our lives down for evil, which is the ultimate pacifism.
 
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