Theoretical Question - Married American Priest

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The Ukrainians are sending students to St. Josephat’s in Washington,DC but all studies are done in Ukrainian.

This is not true.

The Ukrainian Seminary in DC is really just a house that the students live in and have some classes/conferences that are not for credit. They attend Catholic University of America for their degrees. I know someone who is there now and he does not know any Ukrainian.

 

[Patchunky]

This is not true.

The Ukrainian Seminary in DC is really just a house that the students live in and have some classes/conferences that are not for credit. They attend Catholic University of America for their degrees. I know someone who is there now and he does not know any Ukrainian.

Hi Brother David…

When I was at Holy Family in March for the Pysanky Symposium, they told me that the seminarians that were at St. Josaphat’s (which is connected to Holy Family across the parking lot) were all from Ukraine. There were a few at the Symposium and they all spoke Ukrainian and they were from the L’viv area.

 

[Pro_Domina]

Well, if we analyze the reason why there are married priests in the Eastern rites, we should come to the conclusion that it is not the best thing to do.

What is this reason?

Well since the Church is a divine institution, the Holy Spirit guides Her apostoles in many ways. One of these is inspiring the longest and best diplomatic center of the world.

Rome.

See when the enforcement of celibacy started to come out, not all of the East liked it too much.

So the Church obviously rather ceade in some things rather than have a huge schism. So therefore the Popes allowed married priests in the East, even if it is not the perfect celebacy that is more perfect.

So… we should not be looking into this as an option but rather as something that we pray will one day be abolished when the time is right and not promote it. Esspecially if you are Latin Rite Catholic. Being an Eastern Rite Catholic is a grace and something inspired by the Holy Spirit for the East. God takes into account the mentalities and the modus essere of every culture, something He loves and created, and uses it to help us contemplate Him in a way that others can’t.
The same with different religious orders. They all can’t be the same and they shouldn’t. God loves variety because it is a reflection of His infinite munificence.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hi Brother David…

When I was at Holy Family in March for the Pysanky Symposium, they told me that the seminarians that were at St. Josaphat’s (which is connected to Holy Family across the parking lot) were all from Ukraine. There were a few at the Symposium and they all spoke Ukrainian and they were from the L’viv area.

The guy I know is from England and I met with him in January at St Josaphat’s. He attended a summer course in philosophy at CUA. He is away on a ministerial assignment but will be back when school starts in the fall. I am sorry but it seems you got some misinformation but I do not doubt that this is what you were told from what I have heard about the goings on there.

All the men there are for the USA and there seems to be a strong nationalistic bent there but then I believe that there always has been such within the Ukrainian Church.

It could be that he was finishing up his undergraduate degree so they might not have “technically” counted him when they spoke with you.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Well, if we analyze the reason why there are married priests in the Eastern rites, we should come to the conclusion that it is not the best thing to do.

What is this reason?

Well since the Church is a divine institution, the Holy Spirit guides Her apostoles in many ways. One of these is inspiring the longest and best diplomatic center of the world.

Rome.

See when the enforcement of celibacy started to come out, not all of the East liked it too much.

So the Church obviously rather ceade in some things rather than have a huge schism. So therefore the Popes allowed married priests in the East, even if it is not the perfect celebacy that is more perfect.

So… we should not be looking into this as an option but rather as something that we pray will one day be abolished when the time is right and not promote it. Esspecially if you are Latin Rite Catholic. Being an Eastern Rite Catholic is a grace and something inspired by the Holy Spirit for the East. God takes into account the mentalities and the modus essere of every culture, something He loves and created, and uses it to help us contemplate Him in a way that others can’t.
The same with different religious orders. They all can’t be the same and they shouldn’t. God loves variety because it is a reflection of His infinite munificence.

This would work if the idea of a celibate secular clergy was a dogma but it is not, it is a matter of discipline.

What you do here is attempt to raise the issue to that of a dogma, which many who do not like the married priesthood try to do.

I do not feel called to it myself, but that does not mean that it is not a valid expression. Especially since it has always been a part of our tradition.

I totally disagree with this statement;

Well since the Church is a divine institution, the Holy Spirit guides Her apostoles in many ways. One of these is inspiring the longest and best diplomatic center of the world.

Rome.

Because that is not even true. Peter was Bishop in Antioch before he went to Rome. Rome is not the oldest of the Patriarchal Sees.

And even if it was that does not make it superior. No Church/Tradition/Rite is superior to any other one.

 

[Pro_Domina]

This would work if the idea of a celibate secular clergy was a dogma but it is not, it is a matter of discipline.

What you do here is attempt to raise the issue to that of a dogma, which many who do not like the married priesthood try to do.

I do not feel called to it myself, but that does not mean that it is not a valid expression. Especially since it has always been a part of our tradition.

I totally disagree with this statement;

So Antioch is has been for 2008 years the most

Because that is not even true. Peter was Bishop in Antioch before he went to Rome. Rome is not the oldest of the Patriarchal Sees.

And even if it was that does not make it superior. No Church/Tradition/Rite is superior to any other one.

So Antioch has been for 2008 years the most tactiful diplomatic corp and not Rome?

No doubt Antioch was the first. But the Church is the Roman Catholic Church not the Antiochian Catholic Church.

Anyhow that is silly little argument.
But what I really would like to address is the fact that I do not wish to categorize this as a dogma. I am no fool thanks to God, I know what it is and what it isn’t.

Now I do sustain that it is more perfect to remain celebate therefore the course that should be taken.
Yet as this was a monumental act of diplomacy that is still neccesary I would slowly hinder it but not cut it dry.

It might even make “Bart” not want to come to Rome anymore.
(I hope he never does.)

And uh about some rites being better than others.

Listen it is a question I don’t think is good to ask.
Just like which saint is saintlier than the other.
The Church forbids it.

But you can compare the grandiousity of their vocations.

 

[Diak]

Technically Bishop +John has ordained one married man who was actually a subject of the Eparchy of Parma; as I recall the other was one who was technically still a subject of his Eastern European Exarchate but will eventually be incardinated in the US. But you have to start somewhere.

In my own UGCC (Ukrainian Catholic) Eparchy of St. Nicholas, we are at probably 50-60% married parochial clergy.
FDRLB

 

[Diak]

There are actually two major seminaries for the Ukrainian Catholics in North America, one in Ottawa, Ontario and the other at St. Josaphat’s in D.C.

It is true that not all of the seminarians are native Ukrainians. It is also true that not all of the seminarians in formation are residing at St. Josaphat’s, as some are studying at other institutions.
FDRLB

 

[Diak]

He abused the intent, but not the letter, of his permission.

It happens.

It turned out to be a positive effect on the Church, in the end.

Patriarch Josyp abused nothing, but took to heart the sui iuris identity of his particular Church. Pray for us, Blazhenishy.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

So Antioch has been for 2008 years the most tactiful diplomatic corp and not Rome?

No doubt Antioch was the first. But the Church is the Roman Catholic Church not the Antiochian Catholic Church.

Actually the Patriarch of Antioch and all the East is the head of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church.

You are aware that the Latin Catholic Church is just one of 22 (or is it 23?) separate Churches that make up the Catholic Church, are you not?

Anyhow that is silly little argument.
But what I really would like to address is the fact that I do not wish to categorize this as a dogma. I am no fool thanks to God, I know what it is and what it isn’t.

Now I do sustain that it is more perfect to remain celebate therefore the course that should be taken.
Yet as this was a monumental act of diplomacy that is still neccesary I would slowly hinder it but not cut it dry.

Actually within the Eastern Catholic Churches the married secular priesthood is allowed by Canon Law. It is only forbidden (by discipline) in the Latin Church.

While being celibate is good, it is not a calling for everyone which is recognized by the East.

 

[Hesychios]

So… we should not be looking into this as an option but rather as something that we pray will one day be abolished when the time is right and not promote it…

Well said Pro Domina!

Better to wait until after the Orthodox are securely under the Pope, and we can change them all at the same time!

:clapping:

 

[Diak]

It is only forbidden (by discipline) in the Latin Church.

And even in the Latin Church there are exceptions and economia; the cases of former Lutheran and Episcopal pastors are recent cases in point.
FDRLB

 

[Ghosty]

But the Church is the Roman Catholic Church not the Antiochian Catholic Church.

Speak for yourself. My Catholic Church is the “Antiochian Catholic Church”.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Aramis]

And even in the Latin Church there are exceptions and economia; the cases of former Lutheran and Episcopal pastors are recent cases in point.
FDRLB

Methodists, as well: Rev. Fr. Scott Medlock of the Archdiocese of Anchorage.

 

[Pro_Domina]

Speak for yourself. My Catholic Church is the “Antiochian Catholic Church”.

Peace and God bless!

However you may want to look at it it is stil ROMAN whether it is antiochian, urkranian or lunararian.

And whoever wants to undermine that fact that the Holy Catholic Church is Roman above all other names is going down a dangerous path.

Obedience that is not enthusiasctic put rather half-hearted ends up in treachery.

 

[bpbasilphx]

And whoever wants to undermine that fact that the Holy Catholic Church is Roman above all other names is going down a dangerous path.

I believe that it was Pius X who said, "The Church of Christ is not Latin, or Greek, or Slav, but Catholic."

 

[bpbasilphx]

** Being an Eastern Rite Catholic is a grace and something inspired by the Holy Spirit for the East.**

**Do you mean to imply that the Eastern Churches are merely TOLERATED by the Catholic Church?

Fie!

It’s EXACTLY that attitude among Latin triumphalists that discourages reconciliation.**

 

[Pro_Domina]

** Being an Eastern Rite Catholic is a grace and something inspired by the Holy Spirit for the East.**

**Do you mean to imply that the Eastern Churches are merely TOLERATED by the Catholic Church?

Fie!

It’s EXACTLY that attitude among Latin triumphalists that discourages reconciliation.**

All the contrary my friend.

How could anyone be opposed to something truly inspired by the Holy Spirit? In fact it shows the richness of the Church. It is truly Catholic.

But anyhow like I said before, if anyone, any church, any bishop, any order or any country undermine their Roman Catholic character regardless of whatever rite they are from, are in a dangerous path.

Lets be clear, the Maronites are the only Eastern Rite to have always been in communion with the Pope.
And I can bet you the breaks did not happen due to married priests or any of that stuff. But rather that "Pope of Rome"mentality.

Enthusiasm or treachery!

 

[Ungcsertez]

All the contrary my friend.

How could anyone be opposed to something truly inspired by the Holy Spirit? In fact it shows the richness of the Church. It is truly Catholic.

But anyhow like I said before, if anyone, any church, any bishop, any order or any country undermine their Roman Catholic character regardless of whatever rite they are from, are in a dangerous path.

Lets be clear, the Maronites are the only Eastern Rite to have always been in communion with the Pope.
And I can bet you the breaks did not happen due to married priests or any of that stuff. But rather that "Pope of Rome"mentality.

Enthusiasm or treachery!

That is not exactly true. I defer to our “Maronite PARTICULAR CHURCH” brethren to explain their church history.

U-C

 

[Pro_Domina]

in quo modo?