Theosis vs. Beatific Vision

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Anthony_V

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Eastern brothers and sisters,

For those of you who are well educated in its implications, is there any substantial difference between the fundamental concept of Beatific Vision in the western Church and Theosis in the eastern Churches? Obviously, we approach it from very different perspectives, but it is my knowledge that they are both direct participations into the blessed life of the most holy Trinity.

I also understand this to be an concept unique to the Catholic Churches (east and west) and the eastern Orthodox churches, seeing as it has no place in monergism.

I am also currently very absorbed in thinking about it.

2 Pt 1:4, 1 Cor 13:12, Heb 11:1, Rev 22:4, etc.
I’m gathering scripture on this also. If you have any to add, feel free to share (even if you’re a latin 🙂 )
 
You mean the essence-energies distinction and the beatific vision?
 
Eastern brothers and sisters,

For those of you who are well educated in its implications, is there any substantial difference between the fundamental concept of Beatific Vision in the western Church and Theosis in the eastern Churches? Obviously, we approach it from very different perspectives, but it is my knowledge that they are both direct participations into the blessed life of the most holy Trinity.

I also understand this to be an concept unique to the Catholic Churches (east and west) and the eastern Orthodox churches, seeing as it has no place in monergism.

I am also currently very absorbed in thinking about it.

2 Pt 1:4, 1 Cor 13:12, Heb 11:1, Rev 22:4, etc.
I’m gathering scripture on this also. If you have any to add, feel free to share (even if you’re a latin 🙂 )
A closer comparison would be the Eastern(Byzantine) notion of theosis and the Western notion of deification. Essentially these two things are the same, and are usually summed up in Irenaeus’ phrase: “God became man so that man might become god.”

With regards to participation in the life of the Trinity, it seems to me that there are two main differences in Eastern and Western thought. First, the West tends to focus on participation in the life of the Trinity as a future event, occurring sometime after death, and most fully after the Second Coming. The (Byzantine)East, on the other hand, focuses on participation in the life of the Trinity as something that is occurring here and now, but is most fully realized in the age to come. So the two, in my opinion, aren’t really in contradiction to one another, but simply focus on different aspects of the same reality - i.e. participation in the Trinitarian life. These different emphases have enabled the two different traditions to work out more-or-less detailed theologies that are perhaps not quite so prominent in the other - i.e. the West on the age to come element, and (Byzantine)East on the here-and-now. These are gross generalizations, and I do recognize that the East certainly has a more “eschatological” theology, while the West also has a more “here-and-now” type theology. I am speaking merely in terms of overall emphasis.

Secondly, the (Byzantine)East, in part because of its emphasis on the here-and-now participation in the Trinitarian life, has developed a theology of God’s essence vs. His energies. It is through God’s divine energies, his actions, that He reveals Himself to us in this world, works in and through us, and makes it possible for us to know Him and participate in His divine life here and now. This participation is seen to reach its fulfillment in the age to come, but generally the (Byzantine)East does not really speak of the nature of that fulfillment.

The West, on the other hand, because of its emphasis/focus on the age to come, has worked out a very detailed theology of what that age will be like in its theology of the “Beatific Vision.” This does not invalidate what the (Byzantine)East teaches about essence vs. energies, but simply focuses on a different aspect of participation in the Trinitarian life.

One final thing to remember is that in both cases we are not talking so much about dogma, but about theological speculation. How exactly it is possible for God, who is ultimately transcendent, to act in this world and in us, and how exactly it is possible for us to participate in the Trinitarian life, is ultimately a mystery that cannot be fully explained. All we can do is use our weak human language to stutter and stammer out a possible explanation, and then move into awe-filled silence when confronted face to face with the mystery itself.
 
A closer comparison would be the Eastern(Byzantine) notion of theosis and the Western notion of deification. Essentially these two things are the same, and are usually summed up in Irenaeus’ phrase: “God became man so that man might become god.”
Not to be nit-picky, but it was St. Athanasius 🙂

One thing, according to eastern theology we will never, not even in heaven, be able to see and know God in his essence, but only in his energies.
 
Not to be nit-picky, but it was St. Athanasius 🙂

One thing, according to eastern theology we will never, not even in heaven, be able to see and know God in his essence, but only in his energies.
Thank you, Credo. I don’t consider that nit-picky at all. For whatever reason I’ve never been able to get it straight in my head whether that was said by St. Irenaeus or St. Athanasius. 😛

I would like to examine more deeply the Western theology of the Beatific Vision. From what I understand the West does have this same concept that even in the life to come we will continue to grow in our knowledge of God. But if we know God in His very essence, at least in the way that we typically think of it, then we cannot grow in knowledge because we would already know all there is to know of God. This, I believe, would imply that the West is using “essence” with different nuances than we do in the East. But I could be wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time. Just ask my wife. 😃
 
Not to be nit-picky, but it was St. Athanasius 🙂

One thing, according to eastern theology we will never, not even in heaven, be able to see and know God in his essence, but only in his energies.
I’m a little muddy on the Essence-Energy concept. Could you explain how the above statement squares with St. John and St. Paul?

[BIBLEDRB]1 John 3:2[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 13:12[/BIBLEDRB]
 
We can see God in his energies, and the energies are God as well. To know him in his essence is impossible, because God is infinite and our minds are not. Sometimes Scripture says no-one has seen/known God but the Son, then it speaks about His essence. When it talks about how people have seen God, it talks about the energies.
 
Not to be nit-picky, but it was St. Athanasius 🙂

One thing, according to eastern theology we will never, not even in heaven, be able to see and know God in his essence, but only in his energies.
Not to be nit-picky, but it was stated quite a bit (in slightly different words) by various early Fathers. Not only St. Athanasius, but also St. Basil the Great comes to mind. :p:p:p
 
Not to be nit-picky, but it was stated quite a bit (in slightly different words) by various early Fathers. Not only St. Athanasius, but also St. Basil the Great comes to mind. :p:p:p
St. Athanasius lived before St. Basil 😛
 
Eastern brothers and sisters,

For those of you who are well educated in its implications, is there any substantial difference between the fundamental concept of Beatific Vision in the western Church and Theosis in the eastern Churches? Obviously, we approach it from very different perspectives, but it is my knowledge that they are both direct participations into the blessed life of the most holy Trinity.

I also understand this to be an concept unique to the Catholic Churches (east and west) and the eastern Orthodox churches, seeing as it has no place in monergism.

I am also currently very absorbed in thinking about it.

2 Pt 1:4, 1 Cor 13:12, Heb 11:1, Rev 22:4, etc.
I’m gathering scripture on this also. If you have any to add, feel free to share (even if you’re a latin 🙂 )
Theosis and the Beatific Vision are two different (though related) concepts. The former refers to our participation in the life of the Trinity (roughly equated with justification/sanctification), whilst the latter is concerned with the nature of the Age To Come. They are related in that it is said that since God is infinite, our growth into His likeness is infinite; thus, there is unending theosis that shall continue in eternity.

The Beatific Vision follows that the train of thought that we shall see God as He is, face to face. It simply leaves it at that. Within (most) Eastern thought, however, there is the tension between knowing God, and not knowing Him- for as a transcendent, completely Other, one cannot fully know God.

I am not sure how these are reconciled. I am content to know that we shall know God as we ought, while at the same time ever growing into His likeness in unending theosis. This, like so many mysteries, I take on faith.
 
“We say that we know our God from His operations (energeiai), but do not undertake to approach near to His essence (ousia). His operations (energeiai) come down to us, but His essence (ousia) remains beyond our reach.” - St. Basil the Great
 
Theosis and the Beatific Vision are two different (though related) concepts.
This is an interesting assertion, but my own studies do not support this notion.

The beatific vision signifies an intellectual vision of the divine essence through what St. Thomas Aquinas called “the created light of glory”; while theosis concerns the real participation of a human being - body and soul - in the uncreated divine energies.
 
This is an interesting assertion, but my own studies do not support this notion.

The beatific vision signifies an intellectual vision of the divine essence through what St. Thomas Aquinas called “the created light of glory”; while theosis concerns the real participation of a human being - body and soul - in the uncreated divine energies.
Duly noted. I have been told this by various persons (and read it in several places), in an attempt to explain the differences and/or reconcile them. The point being, that in contemplation of God, we ever continue our theosis.

Although, what you mention is the crux of the issue- can we ever truly comprehend the essence of God?

Frankly, I doubt it. God is Other, and we are His creations; we can never truly understand Him. However, Scripture states that we shall know Him as He is, and see Him face to face. I don’t understand all the implications and, however good the various theological speculations and writings are, they are just that. I take God at His promise, and we shall know Him as we ought. Whatever that means. Is it somewhat unsatisfying? Sometimes.

But, it is what it is.
 
I’m a little muddy on the Essence-Energy concept. Could you explain how the above statement squares with St. John and St. Paul?

[BIBLEDRB]1 John 3:2[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 13:12[/BIBLEDRB]
St. Basil the Great argues in his Epistle 235 (or maybe 234, but I’m almost positive that it was 235) that the verse from 1 Corinthians 13 certainly cannot apply to the essence of God. For if we were to know it in part, then the essence of God would be compound and not simple.
 
Although, what you mention is the crux of the issue- can we ever truly comprehend the essence of God?
Actually that is a very Western question. But for Easterners that question itself is wrong, because it presumes the possibility of a non-comprehensive vision of the divine essence, and that notion itself is contrary to the doctrinal tradition of the Eastern Fathers. The divine essence is utterly transcendent and beyond any form of vision or participation by creatures. God - according to the Byzantine tradition - can only be known in His energies.
 
Actually that is a very Western question. But for Easterners that question itself is wrong, because it presumes the possibility of a non-comprehensive vision of the divine essence, and that notion itself is contrary to the doctrinal tradition of the Eastern Fathers. The divine essence is utterly transcendent and beyond any form of vision or participation by creatures. God - according to the Byzantine tradition - can only be known in His energies.
Toche 🙂

Although, given the fact the Essence/Energies distinction came about to explain how we relate to a completely transcendent God, I wouldn’t say it is completely Western presumption; indeed, I think that at some point all Christians (and all religions, really) have to deal with explaining mankind’s dealing with the Transcendent.
 
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