There are 2,942 Catholic Denominations, Maybe more

[Syele]

ok, despite it being pointed out many times before, 30,000 protestant denominations is misleading, unfair, and downright false. The figure in my thread title is from EXACTLY the same source as the 30,000 denominations number people here keep referring to. If your point is to show protestants are divided, just say so and avoid making yourself look dumb.

• The figure comes from a study by David A Barrett

•          the first figure was 20,780             denominations with some figure about how many there would be in the future coming *from a different source*.

• All the denominations listed are not protestant.
• 8,196 were protestant
• 2,942** of this number were Catholics, 194 Latin-rite,**** 580 are Orthodox and other Catholic (non-Roman) 504**

•          According to Barrett, a "distinct denomination" is ANY division, including style of music, location of church, and other things that really are NOT divisions associated with the standard "denomination".

•          Barrett uses the standard definition of denomination but calls it "traditions."

• **He says there are 21 Protestant “traditions”, 6 marginal Protestant, 4 Catholic (non-Roman), 6 Anglican, 20 mixed pagan and Christian (two of which he deems Catholic), 19 Orthodox, 16 (Roman) Catholic
  **
• Barrett also lists Roman Catholicism and Protestantism on the same level each considered a SINGLE ecclesial tradition.
  I’m not denying that there are divisions among protestants. I’m simply asking you to be honest in your discussions here. If you want to say Protestantism is bad cause it’s divided, fine But stop throwing around meaningless numbers.

 

[Eileen_T]

Rites that accept the authority of the Pope and the Magisterium, and adhere to the Dogmas of the faith, are not separate denominations.

The various Rites within the Church are all a part of its rich heritage.

So, let’s say that the determining of what constitutes a NEW denomination is the total acceptance of Teaching and Authority.

 

[kellie]

Is this saying that the Catholic Church in Australia would be considered a “denomination” of the Catholic Church?

Do you have a web link for this?

 

[Valke2]

Rites that accept the authority of the Pope and the Magisterium, and adhere to the Dogmas of the faith, are not separate denominations.

The various Rites within the Church are all a part of its rich heritage.

So, let’s say that the determining of what constitutes a NEW denomination is the total acceptance of Teaching and Authority.

I think the point being made was, that if you apply the same criteria that is applied to come up with 30,000 protestant denomnations, to Catholicism, you come up with over 2,000 Catholic denominations.

Personally, I don’t see how the number of denominations affects the validity of any specific one.

 

[Syele]

Is this saying that the Catholic Church in Australia would be considered a “denomination” of the Catholic Church?

Do you have a web link for this?

Yes Kellie, Barrett would say that. And Likewise two Protestant Churches with the EXACT same beliefs but who had different pastors and two locations would also count as two.

I don’t agree with this study at all, so I want to be clear I don’t really believe there are that many denominations for either Catholics or Protestants. It’s just silly.

Some links:
socrates58.blogspot.com/2004/09/33000-protestant-denominations.html
ntrmin.org/30000denominations.htm
ntrmin.org/30000denominationsrevisited.htm
helives.blogspot.com/2003/11/200000-protestant-denominations.html

also:
David Barrett et al, “World Christian Encyclopedia: A comparative survey of churches and religions - AD 30 to 2200,” Oxford University Press, (2001).

 

[Eileen_T]

I would ask to see more evidence.

Any Catholic Church that accepts the authority of the Pope and the Teachings of the Church are ONE. If they do not, they are not part of the Catholic Church, and hence, Protestants, no matter how loudly they deny it.

 

[Syele]

I would ask to see more evidence.

Any Catholic Church that accepts the authority of the Pope and the Teachings of the Church are ONE. If they do not, they are not part of the Catholic Church, and hence, Protestants, no matter how loudly they deny it.

Eileen This IS the point. The 30,000 protestant figure is inaccurate unless you like the 2,942 Catholic figure as well. I posted this up because I saw at least 3 Catholics cite the 30,000 figure this week on this forum. The point is that both are inaccurate so don’t use them if you want to look credible.

 

[Eileen_T]

I DON’T use that figure.

There is only ONE Church, just, not all Christians are in accord with that Church. Everyone is called to that Unity, some dissent. They are just not in full communion. Jesus only founded ONE Church, so all are called to His One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church.

Other (non-Catholic) Christians may not accept it, but God expects it.

 

[pedja]

I DON’T use that figure.

There is only ONE Church, just, not all Christians are in accord with that Church. Everyone is called to that Unity, some dissent. They are just not in full communion. Jesus only founded ONE Church, so all are called to His One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church.

Other (non-Catholic) Christians may not accept it, but God expects it.

I dont think Jesus founded a Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church. It`s not really mentioned in the Bible which official name the church has to have.

 

[Eileen_T]

Where in the Bible does it say that the Church has to have, or not have, a particular name?

It is from the Bible that we know the Church that Jesus founded is One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic.

Are you disputing Holy Scripture?

 

[Steadfast]

Syele,

Here’s one Catholic who thanks you for the information and who understands it and agrees with your point entirely.

Peace,

Mike

 

[kellie]

I agree there could be 30,000 Protestant denominations.

If a church, e.g the one that is around the corner from me here in Melbourne, is simply called the Melbourne Christian Church, but has the exact same beliefs as the Anglican church around the other corner, then they are quite clearly 2 seperate denominations of Protestantism.

They do not share the same magisterium, leader, or other title for the head of a church.

Whereas the Catholic Church in Melbourne, led by Archbishop Denis Hart, isn’t another denomination of the Catholic Church as we under the Rite of Rome, with the Pope as leader.

 

[puzzleannie]

okBarrett also lists Roman Catholicism and Protestantism on the same level each considered a SINGLE ecclesial tradition.
.

there is a current thread by a non-Catholic Christian who disputes this idea vigorously.

 

[pedja]

Where in the Bible does it say that the Church has to have, or not have, a particular name?

That was exaclty my point.

It is from the Bible that we know the Church that Jesus founded is One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic.

**Contradiction to your previous statement. **

Are you disputing Holy Scripture?

Not at all.

 

[RobedWithLight]

I agree there could be 30,000 Protestant denominations.

If a church, e.g the one that is around the corner from me here in Melbourne, is simply called the Melbourne Christian Church, but has the exact same beliefs as the Anglican church around the other corner, then they are quite clearly 2 seperate denominations of Protestantism.

They do not share the same magisterium, leader, or other title for the head of a church.

Whereas the Catholic Church in Melbourne, led by Archbishop Denis Hart, isn’t another denomination of the Catholic Church as we under the Rite of Rome, with the Pope as leader.

Yes. Catholics in Australia acknowledge the same Pope as those Catholics in Poland or Canada. Protestants on the other hand honestly cannot claim the same.

 

[O.S.Luke]

A rose, by any other name.

 

[kell0618]

ok, despite it being pointed out many times before, 30,000 protestant denominations is misleading, unfair, and downright false. The figure in my thread title is from EXACTLY the same source as the 30,000 denominations number people here keep referring to. If your point is to show protestants are divided, just say so and avoid making yourself look dumb.

Mr. Barrett’s numbers come from a ‘study’ conducted in the 1980s. Perhaps you should be more careful before calling someone dumb based on this one ‘study’ that is 20 years old.

Look here

 

[jack_hawkins]

people are missing the point here
the fact is that this spurious figure is bandied around without people examining the source of the figure, accepting it as fact because it suits their argument
if you accept one figure as valid, you have to accept the other unless you have a very sound reason

 

[JoeyWarren]

The problem with Barret, is that he created his own definitions of “Denomination” as it pertains to christians.

I would be interested to how Barret classifies a non-denominational.

Also the dictionaries of the world hold to definitions that were rendered prior to the Non-denominational movement.

The Cambridge Dictionary has the most honest definition.

Orignally posted by Cambridge Learners Dictionary: dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=20716&dict=CALD
a religious group which has slightly different beliefs from other groups which share the same religion:

Now calculate the numbers based on that definition.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Mr. Barrett’s numbers come from a ‘study’ conducted in the 1980s. Perhaps you should be more careful before calling someone dumb based on this one ‘study’ that is 20 years old.

Look here

And Barret is non-Catholic so his studies will have a slant toward the non-Catholic position. Also he failed to take into consideration of the budding non-denominationalism that started a few years prior to his book being published.