There are 2,942 Catholic Denominations, Maybe more

[rockyankeeswon]

I agree there could be 30,000 Protestant denominations.

If a church, e.g the one that is around the corner from me here in Melbourne, is simply called the Melbourne Christian Church, but has the exact same beliefs as the Anglican church around the other corner, then they are quite clearly 2 seperate denominations of Protestantism.

They do not share the same magisterium, leader, or other title for the head of a church.

Whereas the Catholic Church in Melbourne, led by Archbishop Denis Hart, isn’t another denomination of the Catholic Church as we under the Rite of Rome, with the Pope as leader.

When two Christian churches are not under the same teaching authority,but are on their own as separate Christian communities free to teach whatever they feel the spirit is leading them at that time or any time.They can only be considered as a separate denomination

 

[distracted]

I am* not* Anti-Catholic.

My Church is *not *Anti-catholic.

Christan churches are more than “social clubs”. Even the Catholic Church recognizes Protestants as Christians.

You seem to have no sense of Christian Charity and therefore I’m done talking to you.

i agree that the Poster was somewhat uncharitable. But to throw him/her away is even more so, don’t u think??
I hate to say this, but it seems a lot of Posters here & on other forums @ catholic.com r resorting to childish ways of expressing themselves…
I get angry and upset a lot myself and sometimes its hard to resist saying certain “hostile” or impatient kinds of things, but we shouldn’t put Jesus and his words aside - which is waht it amounts to - just to give vent to our agitated feelings…

 

[distracted]

I don’t think we should squabble to the exact number of protestant denomination because there is no way to know exactly and for sure the number is in the thousands and for sure that is scandelous to the lord as he demanded one faith, one lord and one baptism and founded one church.

The Catholic Church is a monolyth and has certain rules that all her churchs must abide by albeit some churchs do have different traditions but most of the central beleifs whcih the councils and popes have deemed necessary must be agreed upon and all to a certain degree defer to the pope on matters of faith and morals.
Now one can dissent and we do admittedly have that as the early church had dissenters in Corinth and Galatia etc but as the Church in the Bible had one set of rules and disputes were settled by Church Councils see Acts 15. We don’t see the level of authority that Peter has spoken and that settles the issues as in the Council of Chalcedon and Acts 15 in protestantism and thus dispute after dispute is settled by church splite after church split we are witnesssing another church split before our eyes in Anglicanism with its american counterpart Episcopalian rejecting the non binding advice of Archbishop Rowan WIlliams of Canteberry. And that is the problem with protestantism they have no one speaking for God de facto and thus settlting the issues. They have a guy making a suggestion and nother rejeecting the suggestion as no one had any authority other than I have my opinion and interpretation and you have your opinon and your interpratation. This is the weakness of protestantism and you don’t have to buy a book telling you how many protestant denominations to know its a scandal if you live in a big city like LA, NY or Chicago just go under the section of churchs and see how many Protestant denominations there are and it screams scandal. One cannot reconcile the plurality of churchs, doctrines, head of churchs and the worst recent invention the non-denom which every pastor is pope and answerable to no one except himself. Jesus prayed that the Church be One that we would be an example for the confustion in the world. Surely he did not have the thousands of protestant denominations in the world as part of his plan. It is a great barrier in evangelism for the unchurched as they ask me which is the right church among many? Why are there so many differnt opinions on one books that is supposedly infalliable? How many differnt truths are possible when all are claiming ot have the truth? The problem of protestantism among many others is why the WEstern World has gone from Christendom to ChristenDummy. Protetsantism has created religious relativism in Christiantiy as know one is quite sure what is true and everyone has their interpretation and the world can rightly point out Christian that is just your interpreation among many!

I used 2 think (still do sometimes) that Protestantism isn’t all that bad - I mean, a lot of people find Jesus there & then end up finding the Catholic Church… Yet i cannot help but believe, after many years on this earth, observing this, studying that, etc… that Protestantism is more a curse than a blessing (just my opinion… only God knows the whole scope of the problem…). This divisiveness defintely goes against Jesus’ prayer for unity that u mentioned (John 17:20)…which makes the disunity terrible 4 that reason alone… Confusion in spirituality is never a good thing (though God does bring good from evil…). The worst thing is that Protestantism causes so much confusion that a lot of people just give up on Christianity entirely… Anyone with 1/2 a brain can see that all those denoms teaching differing things is just not, well, its not Godly… God is not hte author of confusion… We all know who is… :bigyikes:

 

[Syele]

Dear Syele,

Thanks for your post starting this lively discussion.

You have repeatedly stated that we are missing the point of your post. Your point being that the same source cited as stating that there are 33,000 Protestant denominations also states that there are 2,942 Catholic denominations therefore rendering the source unreliable. Fair enough.

However, I believe it is you, not us, that is missing the point when this figure is cited. It wouldn’t matter if the number were 20, or 5 billion. The point of the citation is that it is not 1.

By dwelling on the accuracy of the cited source, you have overlooked the main point and allowed a small irritant to come between you and a very important realization. The church is meant to be one, but the very nature of Protestant, Evangelical, and Non-Denominational Christianity leads to numerous divisions. This splintering harms the Body and injures its witness to the world.

At your request, I looked around on the Internet for sources on the number of Christian Denominations. The numbers were everywhere from about 3,000 up to 38,000. I won’t bother with specific websites, because my point is not the accuracy or inaccuracy of the number. My point is this: Nowhere was it 1.

Maybe, in my children’s lifetime, Christs prayer will be answered and we will be 1. Then we can witness to the world.

Here’s the deal, eliasaph99 (and several others here). The thing is I AGREE with you about the church should be one and unified and that there are way too many people out there misinterpreting the Holy Scriptures.

Where I strongly disagree with you is that you seem to be telling me that the end (Convincing us Protestants of your very good point) justifies the means (citing incorrect and downright false sources).

At what point did Jesus pray that His people would lie to get more people to follow him? Do you understand what this can do your your Christian witness?

I actually posted this thread to HELP those of you making this argument not blow it with all the protestants you are trying to reach by making yourselves look like bad. But so many just don’t want to listen, you want to be right more than you want people to be in unity with the Catholic Church.

 

[rr1213]

It is the old dilemna about whether you want to “win” an on-line debate or effectively witness for Christ. Unfortunately, many of us on both sides of the Catholic/Protestant split have found ourselves trying to win the debate. I know that I’ve done it myself at times.

 

[onenow1]

Hi,
Statistics, statistics, statistics wow ! here’s some real statistics.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ and tell the Baptists it’s a symbol ?
2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and tell the Baptists its unbiblical ?

3.How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship and tell the Presbyterians the day of worship, is Sunday not Saturday ?

4.How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains a virgin, and then tells the Baptists she had other children ?

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists ‘once saved always saved’, and tell the Church of Christ that Sola fide is unscriptural ?
2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Episcopalians to baptize infants and tell the Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid ?
3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Mormans that the Holy Trinity is three seperate persons, and then tell the Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one God ?

It does not take a lot of common sense to realize the Holy Spirit is not speaking to each one of these denominations. There’s fourteen differences in the above alone and there are many, many more, these are the fruits of, [Holy scripture alone].

Sermon on the gospel of John by Martin luther, Chapters 14-16, in vol. 24 of Luther’s works. " we concede as we must that so much of what they [the Catholic Church] say is true: that the Papacy has God’s word and the office of the Apostles, and that we have received the Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the sacrement, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them ?

Peace
OneNow1

 

[JoeyWarren]

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 

[MrS]

Hi,
Statistics, statistics, statistics wow ! here’s some real statistics.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ and tell the Baptists it’s a symbol ?
2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and tell the Baptists its unbiblical ?

3.How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship and tell the Presbyterians the day of worship, is Sunday not Saturday ?

4.How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains a virgin, and then tells the Baptists she had other children ?

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists ‘once saved always saved’, and tell the Church of Christ that Sola fide is unscriptural ?
2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Episcopalians to baptize infants and tell the Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid ?
3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Mormans that the Holy Trinity is three seperate persons, and then tell the Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one God ?

It does not take a lot of common sense to realize the Holy Spirit is not speaking to each one of these denominations. There’s fourteen differences in the above alone and there are many, many more, these are the fruits of, [Holy scripture alone].

Sermon on the gospel of John by Martin luther, Chapters 14-16, in vol. 24 of Luther’s works. " we concede as we must that so much of what they [the Catholic Church] say is true: that the Papacy has God’s word and the office of the Apostles, and that we have received the Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the sacrement, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them ?

Peace
OneNow1

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_2.gifsmileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_75.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_2.gif

 

[Syele]

Hi,
Statistics, statistics, statistics wow ! here’s some real statistics.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ and tell the Baptists it’s a symbol ?
2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and tell the Baptists its unbiblical ?

3.How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship and tell the Presbyterians the day of worship, is Sunday not Saturday ?

4.How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains a virgin, and then tells the Baptists she had other children ?

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists ‘once saved always saved’, and tell the Church of Christ that Sola fide is unscriptural ?
2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Episcopalians to baptize infants and tell the Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid ?
3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Mormans that the Holy Trinity is three seperate persons, and then tell the Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one God ?

It does not take a lot of common sense to realize the Holy Spirit is not speaking to each one of these denominations. There’s fourteen differences in the above alone and there are many, many more, these are the fruits of, [Holy scripture alone].

Sermon on the gospel of John by Martin luther, Chapters 14-16, in vol. 24 of Luther’s works. " we concede as we must that so much of what they [the Catholic Church] say is true: that the Papacy has God’s word and the office of the Apostles, and that we have received the Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the sacrement, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them ?

Peace
OneNow1

great post, too bad it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.
Try this thread : forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=142103

 

[MrS]

great post, too bad it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.
Try this thread : forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=142103

I think it can be tied in to the OP.

There are so many denominations… whatever the number… because the Holy Spirit IS NOT at work in those denominations’ declarations of belief, or their statements of faith.

Conflicting denominations are divisive.

The Holy Spirit is not divisive.

ergo…

.

 

[Syele]

I think it can be tied in to the OP.

There are so many denominations… whatever the number… because the Holy Spirit IS NOT at work in those denominations’ declarations of belief, or their statements of faith.

Conflicting denominations are divisive.

The Holy Spirit is not divisive.

ergo…

.

Except the part where I specifically mentioned that I was not posting this to discuss that subject. As far as I can tell it’s just another excuse as to why the end justifies the means.

 

[MrS]

Except the part where I specifically mentioned that I was not posting this to discuss that subject. As far as I can tell it’s just another excuse as to why the end justifies the means.

the end justifies the means

that should be endS… and there are perhaps 10s of thousands of the them

 

[onenow1]

Except the part where I specifically mentioned that I was not posting this to discuss that subject. As far as I can tell it’s just another excuse as to why the end justifies the means.

The Catholic Church has different rites not denominations,and anyway, whatever the number of True Catholic Churches there are, they are under the leadership of the successor of St.Peter the Rock. To be a true Catholic we submit to what the Church teaches, that makes one head one Church.

I was going to add this to my previos post.

Martin Luther started something he could not stop he let the cat out of the bag and was helpless to put it back." Once you open the door to error you cannot close it." he set the prime example.
By this time, Zwingli, had run in one direction, Munzer in that direction, Calvin in yet another, all of them scattering the sheep,in different directions.

 

[Syele]

The Catholic Church has different rites not denominations,and anyway, whatever the number of True Catholic Churches there are, they are under the leadership of the successor of St.Peter the Rock. To be a true Catholic we submit to what the Church teaches, that makes one head one Church.

I was going to add this to my previos post.

Martin Luther started something he could not stop he let the cat out of the bag and was helpless to put it back." Once you open the door to error you cannot close it." he set the prime example.
By this time, Zwingli, had run in one direction, Munzer in that direction, Calvin in yet another, all of them scattering the sheep,in different directions.

Did you actually read this thread? Do you know what any of it says? Or did you just read the title and start typing?

 

[onenow1]

No, the point of the thread was that both figures are rhubarb of the highest order and to agree with one means agreeing with both!

Amen Jack!!

I’ll put this simply, the truly Catholic boat is headed in one direction, the other has no Captain steering the boat !

St. Cyprian [250AD] " God is one and Christ is one, and one is his Church, and the faith is one, and his people welded together by the glue of concord into a solid unity of body.Unity cannot be rent assunder,nor can the body of the Church, through the division of its structure, be divided into seperate pieces. " On the Unity of the Church 23.

 

[Syele]

the end justifies the means

that should be endS…

And you should start sentences with capital letters.

and there are perhaps 10s of thousands of the them

If you mean denominations, The point of the thread was a simple request by me for people to not quote Barrett. If you want to change the point, I guess I can’t stop you. I’ll just leave the thread now so you can all talk about how many hundreds of thousands of infallible protestant popes there are without my constant nagging to stay on topic.

 

[eliasaph99]

Here’s the deal, eliasaph99 (and several others here). The thing is I AGREE with you about the church should be one and unified and that there are way too many people out there misinterpreting the Holy Scriptures.

Where I strongly disagree with you is that you seem to be telling me that the end (Convincing us Protestants of your very good point) justifies the means (citing incorrect and downright false sources).

At what point did Jesus pray that His people would lie to get more people to follow him? Do you understand what this can do your your Christian witness?

I actually posted this thread to HELP those of you making this argument not blow it with all the protestants you are trying to reach by making yourselves look like bad. But so many just don’t want to listen, you want to be right more than you want people to be in unity with the Catholic Church.

Part of my point, although I didn’t explicitly state it, is that the people quoting that particular number are not lying. Perhaps they are quoting an inaccurate source and not doing their due diligence, but if they believe that what they are saying is true, they’re not lying.

I would never claim that the ends justify the means. I don’t think that what I wrote remotely says anything like that.

What I wrote is that you are allowing yourself to become distracted by their citation of an erroneous source. In a given conversation, if you felt it necessary, you could simply cede the point that there are numerous denominations, but that the particular research they’re quoting from is flawed.

I’ll accept your claim to want to help in your last paragraph, but I hope that you see that it could easily be interpreted as disingenuous. After all, the title of your thread was inciteful and a challenge. You could just have easily titled it “Barret wrong about 33,000 denominations” or something similar. I know that when I read the title and then clicked on the thread my defenses were up already and, I think, rightly so.

Personally, if I cite something that is erroneous, I don’t think it makes me look bad unless it is something widely discredited. I also don’t get that impression of other people when they cite works or research that I know has been refuted or disproven. After all, they’re educating themselves and researching the relevant topics. There’s nothing wrong with that. If it’s pointed out to me that its incorrect, I’ll look into it further. Likewise, if I have additional knowledge I can share with someone, I’ll point them in the right direction.

 

[rr1213]

…the title of your thread was inciteful and a challenge. You could just have easily titled it “Barret wrong about 33,000 denominations” or something similar. I know that when I read the title and then clicked on the thread my defenses were up already and, I think, rightly so.

The fallacies of Barrett’s works has been discussed ad nauseum in these forums and it just doesn’t matter. You turn around and it’s “there you go again” with people citing the same work. The title of this thread got the attention of Catholic posters. I don’t see it as being inciteful or a challenge at all. If the man’s methodology is correct for Protestants, then the exact same methodology is correct for Catholics. If incorrect, then incorrect. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[Syele]

Part of my point, although I didn’t explicitly state it, is that the people quoting that particular number are not lying. Perhaps they are quoting an inaccurate source and not doing their due diligence, but if they believe that what they are saying is true, they’re not lying.

I would never claim that the ends justify the means. I don’t think that what I wrote remotely says anything like that.

What I wrote is that you are allowing yourself to become distracted by their citation of an erroneous source. In a given conversation, if you felt it necessary, you could simply cede the point that there are numerous denominations, but that the particular research they’re quoting from is flawed.

I’ll accept your claim in the your last paragraph, but I hope that you see that it could easily be interpreted as disingenuous. After all, the title of your thread was inciteful and a challenge. You could just have easily titled it “Barret wrong about 33,000 denominations” or something similar. I know that when I read the title and then clicked on the thread my defenses were up already and, I think, rightly so.

Personally, if I cite something that is erroneous, I don’t think it makes me look bad unless it is something widely discredited. I also don’t get that impression of other people when they cite works or research that I know has been refuted or disproven. After all, they’re educating themselves and researching the relevant topics. There’s nothing wrong with that. If it’s pointed out to me that its incorrect, I’ll look into it further. Likewise, if I have additional knowledge I can share with someone, I’ll point them in the right direction.

You are correct, I could have posted a less challenging title to my topic. That is exactly what I did the LAST time I pointed this out in a thread. And others have pointed it out as well. It’s being erroneous is pointed out on CAF on a regular basis, it’s not like this thread is sudden news. Sheesh , the mods even referred to this as a major delima of this section of the forum in a joking way over on the mod section. LOL I’d say it IS widely discredited. People just like to quote it anyhow. You got awfully defensive when the titles said there are 2,942 Catholic Denominations but yet you expect me and other protestants to be happy when you site numbers form the same source?

 

[MrS]

You got awfully defensive when the titles said there are 2,942 Catholic Denominations but yet you expect me and other protestants to be happy when you site numbers form the same source?

So let’s change sources… pick any phone book or yellow pages in any good size city… you choose.

Go to the church section and start counting… truly an unbiased source, yes?

However, I would expect you to list the different Rites (whom all belief the same in their different disciplines/practices) as One Catholic Church.

Can the same be said about any of the others in the listings??

.