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Syele
Guest
Ahh but then we get into the actual definition of denomination… So far many have agreed Barretts definition is wrong. but none have settled on what definition is right.
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Syele
Guest
You did make me laugh. I didn’t count the times they said “Did you even read the thread?” but I’m sure it’s at least 30,000 maybe even millions!
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onenow1
Guest
Hi,
As I remember, someone correct me if I’m wrong, in some of Pope John Pauls dissertations, he talked of christian unity and how, some not in complete union with the Catholic Church, were nevertheless, a vital part of preaching the gospel of Jesus; as such puting all christians under the umbrella of the Catholic Church, although not in full communion. A remarkable charity if I may say so. So there we have it denominations were never the issue; coming together under one roof was. The fact of the matter is, all this statistical data is meaningless in understanding God’s plan for us all. However the fact remains that, as in my previous post, Martin Luther started something he really did’nt want to, his church has failed and the results are obvious. Not exactly an assist to christian unity. This my final 2cents worth.
Peace,OneNow1
As I remember, someone correct me if I’m wrong, in some of Pope John Pauls dissertations, he talked of christian unity and how, some not in complete union with the Catholic Church, were nevertheless, a vital part of preaching the gospel of Jesus; as such puting all christians under the umbrella of the Catholic Church, although not in full communion. A remarkable charity if I may say so. So there we have it denominations were never the issue; coming together under one roof was. The fact of the matter is, all this statistical data is meaningless in understanding God’s plan for us all. However the fact remains that, as in my previous post, Martin Luther started something he really did’nt want to, his church has failed and the results are obvious. Not exactly an assist to christian unity. This my final 2cents worth.
Peace,OneNow1
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ricko
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In my yellow pages there are listed 25 non-denominational churches. These are local churches that just spring up and they are unique, as they don’t exist elsewhere. This list does not include The Adventists, Apostolic, Assemblies of God, Baptist, Baptist-Independent, Southern Baptist, Bible, CME, Disciples of Christ, Christian Independent, Church of Christ, Church of God, Church of God in Christ, Church of the Nazarene, Congregational Christian, Eckankar, Full Gospel, Holiness, Interdenominational, Episcopal, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Latter Day Saints, Lutheran, Methodist, Methodist CME, Methodist-United, Orthodox, Pentecostal Presbyterian, Presbyterian (USA), Reorganized Latter Day Saints, Sanctified, Seventh-Day Adventist, United Methodist, Vineyard, Word of Faith.
Now if you take our population (80,000) and divide it by 25, we get 3,200. This indicates that for every 3,200 group of people we will get at least one unique non-denominational church. Lets round that off to every 5,000 to be conservative. The population of the U.S is now over 300 million. Let’s be conservative again and use only 200 million. To find the total number of unique churches we must divide the total population (200 million) by the figure of 5,000. Remember, to be very conservative, I decreased the population by 100 million and increase the 1 church for every 3,200 people to 1 for every 5,000. After dividing the population by 5,000 that gives us 40,000 unique non-denominational churches in the U.S. Makes the figure of 30,000 seem very conservative now doesn’t it?
Now if you take our population (80,000) and divide it by 25, we get 3,200. This indicates that for every 3,200 group of people we will get at least one unique non-denominational church. Lets round that off to every 5,000 to be conservative. The population of the U.S is now over 300 million. Let’s be conservative again and use only 200 million. To find the total number of unique churches we must divide the total population (200 million) by the figure of 5,000. Remember, to be very conservative, I decreased the population by 100 million and increase the 1 church for every 3,200 people to 1 for every 5,000. After dividing the population by 5,000 that gives us 40,000 unique non-denominational churches in the U.S. Makes the figure of 30,000 seem very conservative now doesn’t it?
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Ani_Ibi
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Not only can you not substantiate this bald generalism, it is just plain not courteous.You’re point is very well made and accurate.
You’re also beating your head against the wall. There simply HAS to be 30,000+ Protestant denominations. It’s a Catholic thing, Peter has spoken on the matter.
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Ani_Ibi
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I always say: do the math. Well done ricko. :newidea:
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Curious
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I’ve only lurked on this thread but I have to say it’s one of the most enjoyable I’ve read in awhile.
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MrS
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Curious
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Feel free to pm me for the Lurker’s Articles of Faith…also schedules for Youth Groups, Potlucks, Women’s Group, Men’s Group, Single’s Group, Children’s Group, Engaged Couple’s Group, Senior Citizen’s Group, Infant’s Group, Toddler’s Group, Pet-Owner’s Group, Bible Study Group, Choir Practice, Christian Drama Group, Transparency Screen Practice, Church Website Maintence Society, Deacon’s Breakfast Group, Elders Business Meeting Times, and many MANY more!!!
I’ll also soon have an address to send the donations.
Okay sorry. No more hijacking. Back to lurking.
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MrS
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…looks like a lot of lurking groupies to me…
Feel free to pm me for the Lurker’s Articles of Faith…also schedules for Youth Groups, Potlucks, Women’s Group, Men’s Group, Single’s Group, Children’s Group, Engaged Couple’s Group, Senior Citizen’s Group, Infant’s Group, Toddler’s Group, Pet-Owner’s Group, Bible Study Group, Choir Practice, Christian Drama Group, Transparency Screen Practice, Church Website Maintence Society, Deacon’s Breakfast Group, Elders Business Meeting Times, and many MANY more!!!
I’ll also soon have an address to send the donations.
Okay sorry. No more hijacking. Back to lurking.
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Eileen_T
Guest
If there were only a few dozen, there would still be too many. Every time someone breaks away and starts a new church, they are ignoring Jesus’ prayer that we be ONE.
Surely that is the most important issue here. Instead of counting up how many denominations there are, we should be working towards unity, not more division.
Unfortunately, it all seems to come down to a matter of obedience. Disobedience was the original sin and is what is hurting Christ’s Church today.
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JoeyWarren
Guest
hmmmmmm and if we did not go conservative? We get 937,500 which is a lot closer to my 1 million estimate I gave in an earlier post in this thread. Let’s thrown in the rest of the world? Except lets get more conservative.
For every 10,000 people we have 1 non-denomational with a population of 6 Biilion. That’s a whopping 600,000 denominations.
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MrS
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I was under the impression that there were as many denominations as there are Bible Christians…
with the further understanding that in this context Catholics must be excluded even though they are actually the original and only Bible Christians (does that make sense… does to me)
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Syele
Guest
If your definition of “Denomination” is truly “a group of people with the exact same beliefs in every area” then Catholicism really does have tons of denominations… I mean… you have varying worship styles, liberal priests here and there, Thomists, Molinists, Cafeteria Catholics, Augustinians, Orthodox, there are liberal Catholics and Conservative ones, differing beliefs about whether Genesis is literal or figurative or both, celibacy, mantilla wearing, limbo… this list could go on for miles and miles. And no "but those are “optional” dosen’t count, you set the definition here, not me. I’d have had the definition a bit narrower…
The refusal to define Denomination in a more precise way forces you to not have only one Catholic Church. If you have have no Unity, your whole argument fails.
The refusal to define Denomination in a more precise way forces you to not have only one Catholic Church. If you have have no Unity, your whole argument fails.
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lak611
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The point is, Barrett’s definition and numbers are wrong all around. It is not reliable in terms of Catholics, Protestants or Orthodox. Some people just do not seem to get that it is a flawed study and persist in using it, although it is erroneous.:banghead:
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rr1213
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Again, the vast majority of non-Catholics in the USA are grouped in less than 30 denominations. If you want to count every grouping of 5 people who call themselves a church to be a Protestant denomination, then fine. Every Cafeteria Catholic who picks and choose which teachings of the Magisterium he will follow counts as a Catholic Denomination.
This is really getting ridiculous. Let’s agree on some basics: (1) there are numerous, probably thousands, of non-Catholic denominations, (2) nonetheless, most non-Catholics are grouped within 20 to 30 denominations or faith groups, and (3) nothing is gained by calling every Tom, Dick and Harry who sets up a 5 person Church a separate denomination because such “denomination” has no effect on what the vast majority of non-Catholics believe or do.
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rr1213
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It was a pretty accurate statement for these forums. Count all the threads over the years on this topic. Maybe we need a sticky?
I also was trying to make a point using humor. It was also no less courteous than any of the other posts in this thread. If you want to say I’ve dropped to the level of the surrounding discussion, then I’m guilty.
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Ani_Ibi
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Evidence please.
There is no need. This is make-work and a red herring. The rules discourage us from dragging other threads into a discussion. If you have a point, then please make it on this thread.
Why? :ehh:
Please don’t put words in my mouth.
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Ani_Ibi
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I am not aware that Catholics set up their own churches as many breakaway Protestant denominations do. I think Lefebvre did, but he didn’t stay Catholic for very long.
I am not really big on namecalling – ‘Cafeteria Catholics’ is namecalling – and I am not really big on tagging qualifying adjectives on the noun ‘Catholics’ such as ‘Cafeteria.’
Those in the Catholic Church are all simply Catholics. Those who rebel against Magisterial teaching have, for all practical purposes, already left the Church and therefore may well qualify as a new Protestant denomination.
I will concede that there are rebels within both the Catholic Church and the Protestant churches.
The difference is that the Catholic Church has the Magisterium and the Protestant churches do not. Therefore there is a sense in the Protestant churches that things are up for grabs, can be negotiated, can be re-interpreted, can be changed.
There is no such sense in the Catholic Church. Oh admittedly there are folks in the Catholic Church who have persuaded themselves that things are up for grabs. But they are mistaken.
As long as there is ONE MAGISTERIUM, there will be ONE CATHOLIC CHURCH and ZERO CATHOLIC DENOMINATIONS.
There will always be one Magisterium.
Therefore there will always be one Catholic Church and zero Catholic denominations.
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