There is no such thing as evil and pain, because God cares not

[Zundrah]

I don’t think that too many people will go to hell. I don’t think that God often if not at all actually punishes truly wicked people. I think that he passes on stopping evil goings on. I think he just doesn’t even watch the suffering. I think he doesn’t even look to check on us when we are being attacked in various ways. I think that it is probably because God has never felt pain, or depression. I think he classes it as an earthly thing and therefor just leaves us to it. He doesn’t punish the wicked, he doesn’t physically even stop them.

 

[Andrew_Lorimer]

I think that one may have many thoughts about how the world is. Scientific method and reflection upon faith can help. We need the intellectual work done by others, and we need to do intellectual work ourselves. Also, a touchstone is the shared beliefs of humanity; throughout history and the world.

 

[Zundrah]

I think that one may have many thoughts about how the world is. Scientific method and reflection upon faith can help. We need the intellectual work done by others, and we need to do intellectual work ourselves. Also, a touchstone is the shared beliefs of humanity; throughout history and the world.

What!? I’m actually asking, is God bothered? And if he is apparently bothered then why does he do nothing?

Even you, an athiest can answer that, right?

 

[gr1]

I wouldnt be so liberal in my thinking if you want to make it through the eye of the needle.My opinion is there will probly be more in hell than in heaven.i also believe that despite the pain their souls will bear, this is the way they would have it.What God wanted and designed them for is not, nor will be on their agenda

 

[Zundrah]

I wouldnt be so liberal in my thinking if you want to make it through the eye of the needle.My opinion is there will probly be more in hell than in heaven.i also believe that despite the pain their souls will bear, this is the way they would have it.What God wanted and designed them for is not, nor will be on their agenda

Sinners don’t want to be with God, now and even after death? Yes, I believe that too. They know exactly what they are doing. But why does he let the good suffer as a result of sinners evil acts?

 

[catholic1seeks]

I think that it is probably because God has never felt pain, or depression. I think he classes it as an earthly thing and therefor just leaves us to it. He doesn’t punish the wicked, he doesn’t physically even stop them.

Never felt pain? Then what to you is the Incarnation?

I’m confused on what your saying.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Sinners don’t want to be with God, now and even after death? Yes, I believe that too. They know exactly what they are doing. But why does he let the good suffer as a result of sinners evil acts?

Why does he let the good suffer? Why does he allow anyone to suffer? Why does God allow evil?

Evil originates in man, not God. He respects our free will so much, that he allowed us to choose the dark path. He doesn’t want us to, that’s why he gives us his grace to cooperate with. That’s why he took on human nature and died for our sins.

 

[Zundrah]

Never felt pain? Then what to you is the Incarnation?

I’m confused on what your saying.

I mean, as He is now; still, without time, worries or even emotion. I don’t mean to say that he is cold, I mean that even the Church teaches that God has no emotions.

 

[gr1]

If this is what are church teaches than far be it for me to disagree.But i think since God designed us in his own image there is a good chance that He also has emotions

 

[Zundrah]

If this is what are church teaches than far be it for me to disagree.But i think since God designed us in his own image there is a good chance that He also has emotions

The Church does teach that because God is perfect, he does not have emotions.

 

[Zundrah]

Why does he let the good suffer? Why does he allow anyone to suffer? Why does God allow evil?

Evil originates in man, not God. He respects our free will so much, that he allowed us to choose the dark path. He doesn’t want us to, that’s why he gives us his grace to cooperate with. That’s why he took on human nature and died for our sins.

But the point is that He obviously doesn’t care about the pain or abuse other wise he would do something.

 

[gr1]

God is just. He will deal with all matters in his own good time.And he dosnt even have time,figure that one out. Just remember we hardly know God at all,so how can we judge how He is affected or how he acts. Regaurdless with the dismally little i do know,I trust in Him and His goodness and His love

 

[catholic1seeks]

But the point is that He obviously doesn’t care about the pain or abuse other wise he would do something.

The whole existence of evil is a mystery, and it takes the Christian faith as a whole to answer it. There is not one short response anyone can give.

See these links:

peterkreeft.com/topics/evil.htm

Here’s an excerpt from it:

A third part of the solution to the problem of evil is the most important part: how to resolve the problem in practice, not just in theory; in life, not just in thought. Although evil is a serious problem for thought (for it seems to disprove the existence of God), it is even more of a problem in life (for it is the real exclusion of God). But even if you think the solution in thought is obscure and uncertain, the solution in practice is as strong and clear as the sun: it is the Son. God’s solution to the problem of evil is his Son Jesus Christ. The Father’s love sent his Son to die for us to defeat the power of evil in human nature: that’s the heart of the Christian story. We do not worship a deistic God, an absentee landlord who ignores his slum; we worship a garbageman God who came right down into our worst garbage to clean it up. How do we get God off the hook for allowing evil? God is not off the hook; God is the hook. That’s the point of a crucifix.

The Cross is God’s part of the practical solution to evil. Our part, according to the same Gospel, is to repent, to believe, and to work with God in fighting evil by the power of love. The King has invaded; we are finishing the mop-up operation.

Finally, what about the philosophical problem? It is not logically contradictory to say an all-powerful and all-loving God tolerates so much evil when he could eradicate it? Why do bad things happen to good people? The question makes three questionable assumptions.

First, who’s to say we are good people? The question should be not “Why do bad things happen to good people?” but “Why do good things happen to bad people?” If the fairy godmother tells Cinderella that she can wear her magic gown until midnight, the question should be not “Why not after midnight?” but “Why did I get to wear it at all?” The question is not why the glass of water is half empty but why it is half full, for all goodness is gift. The best people are the ones who are most reluctant to call themselves good people. Sinners think they are saints, but saints know they are sinners. The best man who ever lived once said, “No one is good but God alone.”

Second, who’s to say suffering is all bad? Life without it would produce spoiled brats and tyrants, not joyful saints. Rabbi Abraham Heschel says simply, “The man who has not suffered, what can he possibly know, anyway?” Suffering can work for the greater good of wisdom. It is not true that all things are good, but it is true that “all things work together for good to those who love God.”

Third, who’s to say we have to know all God’s reasons? Who ever promised us all the answers? Animals can’t understand much about us; why should we be able to understand everything about God? The obvious point of the Book of Job, the world’s greatest exploration of the problem of evil, is that we just don’t know what God is up to. What a hard lesson to learn: Lesson One, that we are ignorant, that we are infants! No wonder Socrates was declared by the Delphic Oracle to be the wisest man in the world. He interpreted that declaration to mean that he alone knew that he did not have wisdom, and that was true wisdom for man.

Also see peterkreeft.com/topics/suffering.htm

Let’s step back a bit. We began with the mystery, not just of suffering but of suffering in a world supposedly created by a loving God. How to get God off the hook? God’s answer is Jesus. Jesus is not God off the hook but God on the hook. That’s why the doctrine of the divinity of Christ is crucial: If that is not God there on the cross but only a good man, then God is not on the hook, on the cross, in our suffering. And if God is not on the hook, then God is not off the hook. How could he sit there in heaven and ignore our tears?

There is, as we saw, one good reason for not believing in God: evil. And God himself has answered this objection not in words but in deeds and in tears. Jesus is the tears of God.

 

[nuntym]

I don’t think that too many people will go to hell. I don’t think that God often if not at all actually punishes truly wicked people. I think that he passes on stopping evil goings on. I think he just doesn’t even watch the suffering. I think he doesn’t even look to check on us when we are being attacked in various ways. I think that it is probably because God has never felt pain, or depression. I think he classes it as an earthly thing and therefor just leaves us to it. He doesn’t punish the wicked, he doesn’t physically even stop them.

Zundrah, is there anything wrong? Why so being pessimistic about God all of a sudden?

Of course God cares about evil and suffering in the world!

That’s why He came down to us, “so that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish, but shall have eternal life.”

That’s why He created us, the Church, to spread this Good News to the world and save this hurting, crazy world!

That’s why He gave us His Mother to be our Mother, to pray for us sinners, to be our perpetual help, and to lead us to His Son.

That’s why He assigned to each and everyone of us an angel, our guardian dear, who everyday is at our side, to light and guard, to rule and guide our way.

That’s why there are countless Saints in Heaven, witnessing our fights and struggles everyday as a cloud of witnesses, their prayers for us always before the throne of God.

That’s why he made you, Zundrah, so that you can receive the unfathomable Love and Mercy given to you by our Lord and Savior each and every moment of your life, and give to those who need you.

Cheer up! If He is for us, who can go against us?

 

[Julian0404]

Zundrah: You need to change the lable from Hard Core Catholic to something else because the mish-mash of theology you are purporting is a combination of past heresies dealing with Jesus NOT being physically present, just an image so therefore He suffered no pain, and Muslim that teaches that Jesus was raised in heaven before the Crucifixion and therefore did not suffer and die.
You are lost on the true meaning and teaching of the Dogma’s of the Catholic Church, so the “Hard Core” is unsubstantiated by your comments.

 

[prodigalson12]

I don’t even know where to start, except at the total, complete basics here, and I’d strip yourself of that title, Hard Core Catholic, at least while you are in the present state of mind. God is Love, “that is an emotion”, God is a Jealous God, another emotion, God delights in the Righteous, yet another emotion, the list goes on and on. Every time you drag yourself through the hell of this world, you drag him right along with you, do not think for two seconds he can and does look the other way, he does not, you are misinterpretation his patience because you are trying to put him into mans time frame, you misinterpret what becomes of suffering is good, that he allows things to happen for our own good and glory, he lets us suffer in this life so that we do not have to suffer eternal damnation…

 

[piejesu]

Sounds like someone needs a little hope…

An Excerpt from Pope Benedict’s encyclical on hope.

The human being needs unconditional love. He needs the certainty which makes him say: “neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8:38- 39). If this absolute love exists, with its absolute certainty, then—only then—is man “redeemed”, whatever should happen to him in his particular circumstances. This is what it means to say: Jesus Christ has “redeemed” us. Through him we have become certain of God, a God who is not a remote “first cause” of the world, because his only-begotten Son has become man and of him everyone can say: “I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Gal 2:20). Spe Salvi , 26

 

[LilyM]

Remember the Lamb ‘standing as if slain’ in Revelation?

His Passion, and all the suffering attached to it, was not a temporal event that was over and done with in a few hours - although to our human sense of time it appears that way. It was/is an eternal, timeless event, as it must be to redeem all mankind.

Now, TODAY, in Heaven, He is still “standing as if slain” - in other words still suffering and bleeding on our behalf, for our redemption.

If you think our suffering is bad, try eternal, infinite suffering, such as only the God-Man could experience, and such as He has to experience to properly atone for the multitude of our infinite offences against His infinite goodness!

 

[Zundrah]

Zundrah, is there anything wrong? Why so being pessimistic about God all of a sudden?

Of course God cares about evil and suffering in the world!

That’s why He came down to us, “so that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish, but shall have eternal life.”

That’s why He created us, the Church, to spread this Good News to the world and save this hurting, crazy world!

That’s why He gave us His Mother to be our Mother, to pray for us sinners, to be our perpetual help, and to lead us to His Son.

That’s why He assigned to each and everyone of us an angel, our guardian dear, who everyday is at our side, to light and guard, to rule and guide our way.

That’s why there are countless Saints in Heaven, witnessing our fights and struggles everyday as a cloud of witnesses, their prayers for us always before the throne of God.

That’s why he made you, Zundrah, so that you can receive the unfathomable Love and Mercy given to you by our Lord and Savior each and every moment of your life, and give to those who need you.

Cheer up! If He is for us, who can go against us?

Nuntym, you are so caring to post that for me. But I’m not depressed, you don’t need to worry. I love my Lord and I always will even if he has horrific things instore for my future (which I hope he doesn’t)!

It’s just that… well, think of this; pregnancy, birth, death, growing pains and even when a baby has it’s teeth first coming through. It is all pain that is just uncalled for. God put that pain there, even though you may not “deserve” to suffer you get the agony anyway. God obviously cares not for pain, otherwise these problems wouldn’t arise. It’s like a earthly defect.

But thankyou for caring, you made good focus points.

 

[Zundrah]

Zundrah: You need to change the lable from Hard Core Catholic to something else because the mish-mash of theology you are purporting is a combination of past heresies dealing with Jesus NOT being physically present, just an image so therefore He suffered no pain, and Muslim that teaches that Jesus was raised in heaven before the Crucifixion and therefore did not suffer and die.
You are lost on the true meaning and teaching of the Dogma’s of the Catholic Church, so the “Hard Core” is unsubstantiated by your comments.

Julian, what do you do when someone shows you an injury? Do you drop burning coals on them?