There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

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I believe this is the heart of our division: There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. I personally don’t see much faith and confidence in most Roman Catholics in regards to this one simple truth. This needs to be received to grow in affections for our amazing Triune God. I particpate on this forum so all of us will grow together in our love for God through the truth of His Holy Word. Our religious affections is the key in our Christian battle within ourselves. We remove religous idols of our hearts through the sanctifying truths of God’s Holy Word (John 17:17). Embrace the truth of no condmenation for those who are in Christ Jesus. The real soul searching question should be “have you really been united to Christ”? That is a question all professing Christians should ask themselves, regardless of your church affiliations. To examine yourself to see if you are truly in the faith is taught in the Bible.

Here is the verse in context:

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
  • Rom 8
 
ralphinal said:
Can you sin if you accept Christ?
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Of course. Romans 8 makes that clear, but it also makes it clear that we should remember we aren’t slaves to it; that we are free from it. If we couldn’t sin again there would be no need for Paul to remind the Roman believers to stay away from it. He makes it clear we are free from it, and that we are justified in Christ. That being the case, wallowing in sin is like spitting in Christ’s sacrifice.
 
ralphinal said:
Can you sin if you accept Christ?
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Sure, all Christians have not been perfected and struggle with sin after being united to Christ. However, we are no longer in bondage to sin, but become slaves to righteousness (Rom 6 and 7). We have a changed nature, from the old fallen nature to the new nature, being God’s new creation in Christ. Prior to being united to Christ, we loved our sin. After being united to Christ, we hate the sin that we commit as Christians. We go from loving sin to loving God in degrees. As Catholics believe, Christianity is a process.
 
Reformed said:
Sure, all Christians have not been perfected and struggle with sin after being united to Christ. However, we are no longer in bondage to sin, but become slaves to righteousness (Rom 6 and 7). We have a changed nature, from the old fallen nature to the new nature, being God’s new creation in Christ. Prior to being united to Christ, we loved our sin. After being united to Christ, we hate the sin that we commit as Christians. We go from loving sin to loving God in degrees. As Catholics believe, Christianity is a process.
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So, then, is it possible for someone who beleives in Christ to go to hell?
 
ralphinal said:
So, then, is it possible for someone who beleives in Christ to go to hell?
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If you believe like the Demons, or posses a dead faith…yes you will end up in Hell (James 2). But did that KIND of faith orginate from the flesh or from God? The faith that produces good works is a working faith that is received from God and is not self-generating. It is a gift of God and the fruit of the person and work of Jesus Christ.
 
MarcoPolo said:
Fortunately for us, it only matters if God sees it.
http://www.forumsextreme.com/imgs1/sHa_runaround.gif
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I rejoice with you in unity in Christ if you have received the truth that “there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”. :harp: :harp: :harp:

We are rejoicing and praising God together in what God has done for us in Christ!!! See those harp guys above. 🙂 I think they all belong to different visible churches, but one invisble church of God.
 
Reformed said:
If you believe like the Demons, or posses a dead faith…yes you will end up in Hell (James 2). But did that KIND of faith orginate from the flesh or from God? The faith that produces good works is a working faith that is received from God and is not self-generating. It is a gift of God and the fruit of the person and work of Jesus Christ.
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OK.

I am totally confused as to the point of this thread. So far, I see nothing different between what you say and what I beleive as a Catholic.
 
Maybe I’m looking at it wrong, but St. Paul talks about working out his salvation with fear and trembling. Doesn’t sound like a man who was sure of his salvation but someone who has hope that one day he will have salvation. I know for me its that hope that keeps me one with Christ.
 
Reformed said:
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
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I agree!!

I’m not sure that it’s a one time, you’re in, thing.
To me, we spend our entire lives working toward this … working out our salvation in fear and trembling.
Not that we ‘earn’ anything, because, as we agree, all comes from the grace of God.

So the question is … once you are ‘in’ Christ … is it possible to afterward not be ‘in’ Christ?

michel
 
ralphinal said:
OK.

I am totally confused as to the point of this thread. So far, I see nothing different between what you say and what I beleive as a Catholic.
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That’s good, isn’t it? Please see post 8. I will add another harp guy (Another Christian rejoicing in what God has done in Christ on your behalf).

Here’s ralphinal: :harp:

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus!!!

Sing your praises to God!
 
Reformed said:
That’s good, isn’t it?
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Yes. The biggest issues, in my opinion, between non-Catholic and Catholic understandings of salvation often arise not so much from theology as conceptual terminology. What does it mean to be Born Again? Or to Be a new creation? Or to be Baptised into Christ? Once we see how close we are, we can discuss the theology of different things.

A good example is the need for works. We cannot say that if you have no works you have good faith. So works must be present. We cannot say that you work your way into heaven, either. It is not enough to just do. Faith must have works to show that it is living faith. But, there is an old Protestant addage: idle hands are the devil’s workshop. When we are busy doing the Father’s business, we have no time to be about the devils. Hence, works in and of themselves have a sanctifying aspect.
 
Forgive me if I’m not understanding you correctly.Are you saying that if you sin there is no need to "confess"or seek forgiveness from God or those we hurt by our sin?Are you saying being sarrowful or a feeling of guilt about ones sins is wrong?Are you saying you believe once in grace always in grace?Are you saying we should’nt strive to be a better christian and a better example of the love Jesus gave us?
 
ralphinal said:
A good example is the need for works. We cannot say that if you have no works you have good faith. So works must be present. We cannot say that you work your way into heaven, either. It is not enough to just do. Faith must have works to show that it is living faith.
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YES!

I like the equation Paul made.

James 2:26
[26] For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.

The body is to faith as the spirit is to works.
BOTH faith and works are necessary for life, and all four of these are FROM God.

michel
 
ralphinal said:
Yes. The biggest issues, in my opinion, between non-Catholic and Catholic understandings of salvation often arise not so much from theology as conceptual terminology. What does it mean to be Born Again? Or to Be a new creation? Or to be Baptised into Christ? Once we see how close we are, we can discuss the theology of different things.

A good example is the need for works. We cannot say that if you have no works you have good faith. So works must be present. We cannot say that you work your way into heaven, either. It is not enough to just do. Faith must have works to show that it is living faith. But, there is an old Protestant addage: idle hands are the devil’s workshop. When we are busy doing the Father’s business, we have no time to be about the devils. Hence, works in and of themselves have a sanctifying aspect.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts with kindness. We can be too techinical at times. We don’t want to be theologian, but rather we want to grow as worshipers and lovers of God. Good biblical theology should grow us in affection and love for God. If theology stops in the mind and never reaches the heart, then we miss the essential point of truth. I think many contemporary Protestants do not understand what it means to be justified by faith alone. And many Catholics may not understand the Magestrium’s teaching on works and saving faith. I believe easy believism is a major error caused by Arminianism and the 2nd Great awakening in America led by Charles Finney. He too rejected justification by faith alone.
 
wardrandolph said:
Forgive me if I’m not understanding you correctly.Are you saying that if you sin there is no need to "confess"or seek forgiveness from God or those we hurt by our sin?Are you saying being sarrowful or a feeling of guilt about ones sins is wrong?Are you saying you believe once in grace always in grace?Are you saying we should’nt strive to be a better christian and a better example of the love Jesus gave us?
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I think we all know in part and grow together. Here are verses that may help with your question. Of course we should grow in obedience to God out of gratitude and love for God in what He has done for us in Christ. I think that perspective on growing obediene is a sign of being united to Christ, don’t you agree?

1 John 1

The Word of Life
1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And we are writing these things so that our [1] joy may be complete.

Walking in the Light

5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
 
TLara said:
Maybe I’m looking at it wrong, but St. Paul talks about working out his salvation with fear and trembling. Doesn’t sound like a man who was sure of his salvation but someone who has hope that one day he will have salvation. I know for me its that hope that keeps me one with Christ.
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Complete that verse that you are quoting and you will get new insight. Protestants see salvation in the past, present and future tense. Actually, much of what Paul writes in regards to salvation is past tense. Please look for it in your reading of the Scriptures.
 
cazayoux said:
I agree!!

I’m not sure that it’s a one time, you’re in, thing.
To me, we spend our entire lives working toward this … working out our salvation in fear and trembling.
Not that we ‘earn’ anything, because, as we agree, all comes from the grace of God.

So the question is … once you are ‘in’ Christ … is it possible to afterward not be ‘in’ Christ?

michel
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Well, I’m not sure that is only a Catholic question. An Arminian Protestant will have that same issue. Can we be united to Christ, then fall away and be united to Adam, and then later in life re-united to Christ with another rebirth? Please quote the verse about working out your salvation in fear and trembling and see if we all see what’s behind us working out… My confidence in making it to Heaven is never in myself, my absoulte confidence is God in Christ that I will continue to be saved and transformed into the image of Christ to the praise of His glorious grace, for His name sake, and God’s ultimate glory. You see, if Christ looses one whom the Father gave Him, then God becomes a liar. My faith is in the promises of God and the truth of knowing that it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore, my faith is not in myself to sustain the Christian walk, my faith is in God to sustain me because God is faithful to finish what He started for His own glory.

2 Peter 1

1:1 Simeon [1] Peter, a servant [2] and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

2 May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

Make Your Calling and Election Sure

3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to [3] his own glory and excellence, [4] 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, [5] and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these qualities [6] are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. 10 Therefore, brothers, [7] be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. 11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

12 Therefore I intend always to remind you of these qualities, though you know them and are established in the truth that you have. 13 I think it right, as long as I am in this body, [8] to stir you up by way of reminder, 14 since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me. 15 And I will make every effort so that after my departure you may be able at any time to recall these things.
 
Thank you Reformed Protestant for your reply.These scriptures I’m very familar with.What I was realy asking is your understanding and explanation of the questions I asked.Please don’t think I’m attacking you.Sometimes the written word dos’nt convey the right tone in which it is meant.Peace:)
 
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