There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

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Reformed said:
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Put all of your hope and security in the person and work of Jesus Christ on your behalf, and you will be saved. If you doubt that the work of Christ is sufficient for you, then it won’t be. The Apostle Paul never mentions the Roman Catholic church or even baptism in his answer to the question of "what must I do to be saved?.

And the jailer called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas. Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family. Then he brought them up into his house and set food before them. And he rejoiced along with his entire household that he had believed in God.

Acts 16
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First, how can I know that I have put my trust in Jesus Christ? I am fallible person and can decieve myself. You may think you are trusting Christ, but when push comes to shove, find out that you have done no such thing. Second, If I am following a man made religion (such as protestantism) am I really trusting in Christ or an idol made by men (Luther and Calvin). Third, although Paul doesn’t mention baptism as part of the salvation process in this particular passage, guess who clearly makesl baptism a requisite of salvation? The answer is Christ.
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.” - Gospel of Mark

GAME-SET-MATCH
 
mikeledes said:
Can a false professor receive baptism?

God Bless,
Michael
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Yes.

So your next question will be; how then does that differentiate a false professor from a true one, right?

What is a false professor? Why is their profession false?
 
East_and_West said:
First, how can I know that I have put my trust in Jesus Christ? I am fallible person and can decieve myself. You may think you are trusting Christ, but when push comes to shove, find out that you have done no such thing. Second, If I am following a man made religion (such as protestantism) am I really trusting in Christ or an idol made by men (Luther and Calvin). Third, although Paul doesn’t mention baptism as part of the salvation process in this particular passage, guess who clearly makesl baptism a requisite of salvation? The answer is Christ.
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.” - Gospel of Mark

GAME-SET-MATCH
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LOL…read the Scriptures with greater depth and insight. Matthew 3:11

“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

http://www.wrightlibraryfoundation.org/funny_dog_face.jpg

Check out Romans chapter 6. 👍
 
TriuneUnity said:
Anyway, Michael…the original context of why this was brought up has since been lost.

Do you not see how being told that Jesus didn’t die for everyone can destroy someone from looking outward and instead looking inward to determine that one is elect?
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Okay. I agree that Christ died for all. However, I don’t fully understand the connection you’re making. Is it that if Christ only died for a select few, how do I know He died for me?

God Bless,
Michael
 
mikeledes said:
Okay. I agree that Christ died for all. However, I don’t fully understand the connection you’re making. Is it that if Christ only died for a select few, how do I know He died for me?

God Bless,
Michael
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Yes.
 
Reformed said:
LOL…read the Scriptures with greater depth and insight. Matthew 3:11

“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

http://www.wrightlibraryfoundation.org/funny_dog_face.jpg

Check out Romans chapter 6. 👍
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The Bible makes a clear distinction between John’s baptism (water) and Christian baptism (water and Spirit).

God Bless,
Michael
 
ralphinal said:
So all the Apostles who used water baptism did not do what Jesus commanded?
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The Words of Eternal Life

60 When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” John 6

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You Must Be Born Again

3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus [1] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again [2] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [3] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You [4] must be born again.’ 8 The wind [5] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” - John 3
 
TriuneUnity said:
Yes.
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So you mean I finally got your argument! :extrahappy: 😃 But even if a person believes that Christ dies for all, how does that person know that Christ’s work on the Cross has been applied to them? Perhaps I should ask this question, what is the level of certainty a Christian can possess? Is it absolute certainty?

God bless,
Michael
 
Reformed said:
The Words of Eternal Life

60 When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” John 6

You Must Be Born Again
3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus [1] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again [2] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [3] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You [4] must be born again.’ 8 The wind [5] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” - John 3
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Nice dodge. You did not answer. Why did Peter and Paul tell converts to be baptised? Why did Phillip baptise the Etheopean Eunich? Why did Jesus tell them to baptise all men? Why did Paul say that baptism united us in the crucifixion? Why did peter teach that we are saved through baptism? I can go on…
 
TriuneUnity said:
Yes.

So your next question will be; how then does that differentiate a false professor from a true one, right?

What is a false professor? Why is their profession false?
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😃 Actually, this was my next question: In the case of an adult, does reception of grace in baptism depend upon the disposition of the person?

God Bless,
Michael
 
mikeledes said:
😃 Actually, this was my next question: In the case of an adult, does reception of grace in baptism depend upon the disposition of the person?

God Bless,
Michael
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No, it doesn’t. The grace is offered in Baptism. The person can, however, reject it. Which is exactly what a false professor would do. A false professor by definition does not trust the promises of God.
 
mikeledes said:
So you mean I finally got your argument! :extrahappy: 😃 But even if a person believes that Christ dies for all, how does that person know that Christ’s work on the Cross has been applied to them? Perhaps I should ask this question, what is the level of certainty a Christian can possess? Is it absolute certainty?

God bless,
Michael
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Absolute certainty would be within the providence of God alone. If a person is trusting in the work of Christ for their standing before God, receiving the sacraments, etc… they can be assured within human reason that they will be saved.
 
Reformed said:
LOL…read the Scriptures with greater depth and insight. Matthew 3:11

“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

http://www.wrightlibraryfoundation.org/funny_dog_face.jpg

Check out Romans chapter 6. 👍
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Read the scripturs with greater depth and insight. Its clear from this passage that when we recieve Christian baptism (as opposed to St. John’s baptism) that we recieve the Holy Spirit.
 
ralphinal said:
Nice dodge. You did not answer. Why did Peter and Paul tell converts to be baptised? Why did Phillip baptise the Etheopean Eunich? Why did Jesus tell them to baptise all men? Why did Paul say that baptism united us in the crucifixion? Why did peter teach that we are saved through baptism? I can go on…
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Because God commands us to be baptized as an act of obedience, but not as an act of regeneration. All Christians believe that disciples of Christ are to participate in the sacrament of baptism. The issue is what happens at the sacrament of water baptism. Is it justifying grace or sanctifying grace for the believer. Why does Paul make a clear distinction between the gospel and baptism?

1 Corinthians 1:17

For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Romans 1:16-17

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

http://www.soft3k.com/imgs/My-Basset-Hound-Screen-Saver-w300-5085.jpg

Philippians 4:13

I can do all things through him who strengthens me.
 
Reformed said:
Because God commands us to be baptized as an act of obedience, but not as an act of regeneration. All Christians believe that disciples of Christ are to participate in the sacrament of baptism. The issue is what happens at the sacrament of water baptism. Is it justifying grace or sanctifying grace for the believer. Why does Paul make a clear distinction between the gospel and baptism?

1 Corinthians 1:17

For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
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Because Paul’s role in the Church was that of teacher. He did baptise. Does that make him a lier? No. His primary function was to spread the Good News. Others had the roles of baptising and laying on hands in confirmation.

If baptism is only a sign of obedience, why did Peter say it is through baptism that we are saved?
 
ralphinal said:
Because Paul’s role in the Church was that of teacher. He did baptise. Does that make him a lier? No. His primary function was to spread the Good News. Others had the roles of baptising and laying on hands in confirmation.

If baptism is only a sign of obedience, why did Peter say it is through baptism that we are saved?
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Please don’t take a single verse or two and make it an essential doctrine. Please consider all of Scripture to understand essential truths in regards to salvation. Read the account of the Apostle Paul again.
 
TriuneUnity said:
Absolute certainty would be within the providence of God alone. If a person is trusting in the work of Christ for their standing before God, receiving the sacraments, etc… they can be assured within human reason that they will be saved.
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So if no one has absolute assurance of salvation, and I agree with that, I still don’t fully understand the difference between Lutheran assurance and Calvinist assurance? I really have to think about this. 😃

God Bless,
Michael
 
Reformed said:
Please don’t take a single verse or two and make it an essential doctrine. Please consider all of Scripture to understand essential truths in regards to salvation. Read the account of the Apostle Paul again.
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so you would categorize it as an unessential doctrine?
 
How does one come up with an objective criteria by which to determine what is and what is not an essential doctrine?
 
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