There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

[TriuneUnity]

So, being Lutheran, you would agree that John 20:23 assumes confession? Otherwise, how can the apostles forgive or retain sins if they don’t know if the person is repentant? The passage is veru clear. The verb (forgive) refers to the subject (you/ apostles). It says nothing about a mere preaching of forgiveness.

God Bless,
Michael

I would…insofar as Absolution goes. I would say that the other means of grace remit sins which do not necessarily require confession (the Lord’s Supper, for example). Of course, it doesn’t have to be private confession.

The *practice *of confession in Luther’s time needed reformed; the doctrine itself didn’t.

 

[East_and_West]

Debating and discussing issues with some Roman Catholic Christians is very similar to discussing and debating issues with LDS Christians.

Funny. We feel the same way about protestants.

 

[mikeledes]

I would…insofar as Absolution goes. I would say that the other means of grace remit sins which do not necessarily require confession (the Lord’s Supper, for example). Of course, it doesn’t have to be private confession.

The *practice *of confession in Luther’s time needed reformed; the doctrine itself didn’t.

How does the Lord’s Supper remit sin, according to Lutheranism? Wow, I learn something new all the time!

God Bless,
Michael

 

[SPH1]

I believe this is the heart of our division: There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. I personally don’t see much faith and confidence in most Roman Catholics in regards to this one simple truth.

And I personally do not see how anyone can truly and fully be in Christ Jesus outside of His Holy Catholic Church.

 

[TriuneUnity]

How does the Lord’s Supper remit sin, according to Lutheranism? Wow, I learn something new all the time!

God Bless,
Michael

Same way as Absolution. Just a different form. It applies to us the merit of Christ, through faith. All of the means of grace work this way (the preaching of the word, Baptism, the Lord’s Supper, Absolution, and what is sometimes called “the consolation of the brethren” that would be confessing our sins to one another). Baptism and the Supper are the two we categorize as sacraments, because they have visible elements.

 

[TriuneUnity]

I try not to go beyond what is written. Sometimes the wise thing to do is to be silent when Scripture is silent. I know that is a foreign concept for Rome. That is what a religion is about, a man -made attempt to appease deity. Debating and discussing issues with some Roman Catholic Christians is very similar to discussing and debating issues with LDS Christians.

The difference being that they are Catholic Christians; there is no such thing as LDS Christians.

That’s a pretty huge difference.

 

[mikeledes]

The difference being that they are Catholic Christians; there is no such thing as LDS Christians.

That’s a pretty huge difference.

Thanks!

:hug1:

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

I would…insofar as Absolution goes. I would say that the other means of grace remit sins which do not necessarily require confession (the Lord’s Supper, for example). Of course, it doesn’t have to be private confession.

The *practice *of confession in Luther’s time needed reformed; the doctrine itself didn’t.

BTW, what are sins that do not necessarily require confession?

God Bless,
Michael

 

[TriuneUnity]

BTW, what are sins that do not necessarily require confession?

God Bless,
Michael

Well, any of them. Confession and absolution is one form of the means of grace…In the case of the Lord’s Supper, we confess our sins to God directly but forgiveness always comes from an external source.

 

[mikeledes]

Well, any of them. Confession and absolution is one form of the means of grace…In the case of the Lord’s Supper, we confess our sins to God directly but forgiveness always comes from an external source.

Thanks! I hope you and your family have a very blessed weekend!

God Bless,
Michael

 

[TriuneUnity]

Thanks! I hope you and your family have a very blessed weekend!

God Bless,
Michael

You too! Have a great time at church this weekend.

 

[headin_home]

Complete that verse that you are quoting and you will get new insight. Protestants see salvation in the past, present and future tense. Actually, much of what Paul writes in regards to salvation is past tense. Please look for it in your reading of the Scriptures.

I submit this in genuine Christian love & respect as I was a ND for 20 yrs RC convert 2 yrs ago @ 57
I’m curious what happens when you complete
the verse you quoted in your OP from Romans 8:1

“1 There is now therefore no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh.”
It goes on:
“2 For the law of the spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, hath delivered me from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh; God sending his own Son, in the likeness of sinful flesh and of sin, hath condemned sin in the flesh; 4 That the justification of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the spirit.”

So maybe I need to change verse 4 to read

“That the justification of the law be fulfilled in
us.(period)”

or

“That the justification of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the spirit, but according to the flesh.”

or

Does one even need to have a conscience to be saved ?

So maybe the real ? should be :

Will a christian lose their free will when they accept JESUS as their LORD & SAVIOUR?

 

[Philthy]

Very interesting. Sacred tradition requires more sacred tradition to deal with the original sacred tradition issue. It must be nice to makeup doctrine when issues arise. , and to declare it infallible. I understand why it is so important to claim apostolic succession and the infalliblity of the chair for Roman Catholicism. However, the Word of God (Holy Scriptures) does not change because God is immutable.

Very interesting. Your tradition requires more tradition to deal with all issues. It must be nice not to have any fixed, historical, verifiable doctrine which states unequivocably and for all time what the faith actually is. What freedom! That way you can always rest assured that what you believe is the Truth simply because no one has the authority to say otherwise. I understand why it is so important to ignore any connection to apostolic succession and infallibility - because you know you have neither. However, what you must hold firm is that your traditions are based upon the immutable Word of God. Unfortunately your concept of what the Word of God is and what it says, is itself one of your traditions.

 

[Reformed]

Funny. We feel the same way about protestants.

Be honest, Mormon Christians have more in common with Catholic Christians. I don’t think TriuneUnity or Catholics have the right to tell Mormons they are not Christians. It is quite insulting. Mormons follow their understanding and view of Christ according to their apostolic succession. Do we all follow the same Christ, of course not. However, it is quite arrogant and rude to say Mormons are not Christians. I guess you guys haven’t spent much time sharng the biblical only Christ with Mormon Christians. Oops, I guess you guys haven’t spent much time sharing the Roman Catholic Christ with Mormons.

What is a Christian? I believe a Christian is someone who is a follower or disiciple of Jesus Christ.

Protestant Christian …follower of Jesus Christ revealed in the Scriptures alone

Roman Catholic Christian…follower of Jesus Chrirst revealed in the Scriptures (+) Roman Catholic extra-biblical teaching (sacred tradition).

LDS Christian…follower of Jesus Christ reaveld in the Scriptures (+) Mormon extra-biblical teaching

 

[Reformed]

I submit this in genuine Christian love & respect as I was a ND for 20 yrs RC convert 2 yrs ago @ 57
I’m curious what happens when you complete
the verse you quoted in your OP from Romans 8:1

“1 There is now therefore no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh.”
It goes on:
“2 For the law of the spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, hath delivered me from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh; God sending his own Son, in the likeness of sinful flesh and of sin, hath condemned sin in the flesh; 4 That the justification of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the spirit.”

So maybe I need to change verse 4 to read

“That the justification of the law be fulfilled in
us.(period)”

or

“That the justification of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the spirit, but according to the flesh.”

or

Does one even need to have a conscience to be saved ?

So maybe the real ? should be :

Will a christian lose their free will when they accept JESUS as their LORD & SAVIOUR?

I believe Adam and Eve had free will. However, after the fall all mankind lost their free will.

 

[Reformed]

Very interesting. Your tradition requires more tradition to deal with all issues. It must be nice not to have any fixed, historical, verifiable doctrine which states unequivocably and for all time what the faith actually is. What freedom! That way you can always rest assured that what you believe is the Truth simply because no one has the authority to say otherwise. I understand why it is so important to ignore any connection to apostolic succession and infallibility - because you know you have neither. However, what you must hold firm is that your traditions are based upon the immutable Word of God. Unfortunately your concept of what the Word of God is and what it says, is itself one of your traditions.

Why do you reject the sufficiency of Scripture and the sufficiency of Jesus Christ? Because if you received the truth of the sufficiency of the Scriptures and the sufficiency of Jesus Christ…then the Roman Catholic Church loses it’s claim as being the One True Church. Rome is just another Christian denomination with an exclusive claim based on her own self appointed authority.

 

[East_and_West]

Why do you reject the sufficiency of Scripture and the sufficiency of Jesus Christ? Because if you received the truth of the sufficiency of the Scriptures and the sufficiency of Jesus Christ…then the Roman Catholic Church loses it’s claim as being the One True Church. Rome is just another Christian denomination with an exclusive claim based on her own self appointed authority.

You are the one’s who reject the sufficiency of Christ because you don’t think the faith he established is good enough. Instead you choose to follow the traditions of men. You religion makes you all out to be your own little popes reading the scriptures as you see fit. You blind yourself to the truth when you do this. Protestantism is based upon the pride of man.

 

[Reformed]

You are the one’s who reject the sufficiency of Christ because you don’t think the faith he established is good enough. Instead you choose to follow the traditions of men. You religion makes you all out to be your own little popes reading the scriptures as you see fit. You blind yourself to the truth when you do this. Protestantism is based upon the pride of man.

http://www.lovesanimals.com/images/animals/monkey/funny_monkey.jpg

Posted with affection.

Spend some time with your family this evening. We can continue to contend for the faith a later date. We both cannot be right. Here’s the solas to chew on in the meantime. We can battle another day.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_solas

 

[East_and_West]

Account Suspended

Posted with affection.

Spend you time with your family this evening. We can continue to contend for the faith a later date. We both cannot be right.

Good thing Christ established the Catholic Church to tell us which one is.

 

[Reformed]

Good thing Christ established the Catholic Church to tell us which one is.

I’m catholic, don’t you remember?