There is too much Law on these boards

[Nominefili]

Why is it that every other thread throughout the Catholic forums is titled something like,

“Is XYZ a sin?” or “Is ABC a mortal or venial sin?” or “Would it be sinful if I XYZ?”

The responses then attempt to parse out what various church fathers think about it, what different councils think, what Scripture teaches, etc, to determine the extent of an action’s sinfulness and the eternal implications thereof.

But I ask: Where is the Gospel? Where is the forgiveness of sins? Where is the comfort that our Lord Jesus provides to the conscience of the repentant sinner who believes in Him?

Please, when responding to these threads, remember that WHATEVER sin the poster is discussing, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, died for it. And please remind the poster of that. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be terrified on account of our sins, but as we learn in Homiletics class, the Gospel MUST predominate. Chances are, if a sinner is asking about their sin at all, they’re probably penitent. If they weren’t, and they didn’t care, they wouldn’t bother asking. Such threads can provide an excellent opportunity to remind (or inform) the poster of the forgiveness of sins granted to us by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

As Martin Luther (I know how much Catholics love him! ) said:

“This one and firm rock, which we call the doctrine of justification…is the chief article of the whole Christian doctrine, which comprehends the understanding of all godliness…this doctrine is the articulus stantis et cadentis ecclesiae …if this article stands, the Church stands; if it falls, the Church falls.”

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Why is it that every other thread throughout the Catholic forums is titled something like,

“Is XYZ a sin?” or “Is ABC a mortal or venial sin?” or “Would it be sinful if I XYZ?”

The responses then attempt to parse out what various church fathers think about it, what different councils think, what Scripture teaches, etc, to determine the extent of an action’s sinfulness and the eternal implications thereof.

But I ask: Where is the Gospel? Where is the forgiveness of sins? Where is the comfort that our Lord Jesus provides to the conscience of the repentant sinner who believes in Him?

Please, when responding to these threads, remember that WHATEVER sin the poster is discussing, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, died for it. And please remind the poster of that. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be terrified on account of our sins, but as we learn in Homiletics class, the Gospel MUST predominate. Chances are, if a sinner is asking about their sin at all, they’re probably penitent. If they weren’t, and they didn’t care, they wouldn’t bother asking. Such threads can provide an excellent opportunity to remind (or inform) the poster of the forgiveness of sins granted to us by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

As Martin Luther (I know how much Catholics love him! ) said:

“This one and firm rock, which we call the doctrine of justification…is the chief article of the whole Christian doctrine, which comprehends the understanding of all godliness…this doctrine is the articulus stantis et cadentis ecclesiae …if this article stands, the Church stands; if it falls, the Church falls.”

John 15
10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

Will you remain in Jesus’s love if you disobey his commandments?

 

[PaulDupre]

Read Matthew 25. According to the bible, obeying Jesus’ commands and doing right is what we will be judged on, not our beliefs.

 

[Nominefili]

John 15
10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

Will you remain in Jesus’s love if you disobey his commandments?

Are you arguing that Jesus doesn’t love sinners?

I’m sorry but I don’t see the relevance of your scripture reference. And I never argued that we shouldn’t obey Christ’s commands. I argued that we should reassure the penitent of the forgiveness of sins.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Are you arguing that Jesus doesn’t love sinners?

I’m sorry but I don’t see the relevance of your scripture reference. And I never argued that we shouldn’t obey Christ’s commands. I argued that we should reassure the penitent of the forgiveness of sins.

My point is that in order to obey, we must strive to learn what Jesus wants from us.

This is the point of the posts you are criticizing.

 

[Nominefili]

Read Matthew 25. According to the bible, obeying Jesus’ commands and doing right is what we will be judged on, not our beliefs.

Mark 16:16 - “Whoever believes and me and is baptized will be saved. But whoever does not believe in me will be condemned.”

John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

2 Cor. 5:21 - “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”"

Galatians 3:22-25 - “But the scripture has imprisoned all things under the power of sin, so that what was promised through faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed. Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian.”

Of course there are plenty more references. But PLEASE KNOW I’m not arguing an antinomian position. Determining ones’s sin is important. I’m just saying that the forgiveness of sins is what ultimately saves us from damnation, and thus should predominate any discussion of sin.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Mark 16:16 - “Whoever believes and me and is baptized will be saved. But whoever does not believe in me will be condemned.”

John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

2 Cor. 5:21 - “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”"

Galatians 3:22-25 - “But the scripture has imprisoned all things under the power of sin, so that what was promised through faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed. Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian.”

Of course there are plenty more references. But PLEASE KNOW I’m not arguing an antinomian position. Determining ones’s sin is important. I’m just saying that the forgiveness of sins is what ultimately saves us from damnation, and thus should predominate any discussion of sin.

Do you believe that we can be forgiven for sins without repentence?

Will we repent of sins that we deny are sins?

 

[Nominefili]

Do you believe that we can be forgiven for sins without repentence?

Not to put limits on God’s grace and mercy, but no I don’t.

Will we repent of sins that we deny are sins?

Nope.

Like I said, all I was asking for was that when we discuss sin, we discuss the forgiveness of sins as well. Law and Gospel.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Not to put limits on God’s grace and mercy, but no I don’t.

Nope.

Like I said, all I was asking for was that when we discuss sin, we discuss the forgiveness of sins as well. Law and Gospel.

For a Catholic, forgiveness of sins is tied to repentence.

We don’t want to offend God by our actions. We want to know which actions offend God.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Why is it that every other thread throughout the Catholic forums is titled something like,

“Is XYZ a sin?” or “Is ABC a mortal or venial sin?” or “Would it be sinful if I XYZ?”

The responses then attempt to parse out what various church fathers think about it, what different councils think, what Scripture teaches, etc, to determine the extent of an action’s sinfulness and the eternal implications thereof.

But I ask: Where is the Gospel? Where is the forgiveness of sins? Where is the comfort that our Lord Jesus provides to the conscience of the repentant sinner who believes in Him?

Please, when responding to these threads, remember that WHATEVER sin the poster is discussing, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, died for it. And please remind the poster of that. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be terrified on account of our sins, but as we learn in Homiletics class, the Gospel MUST predominate. Chances are, if a sinner is asking about their sin at all, they’re probably penitent. If they weren’t, and they didn’t care, they wouldn’t bother asking. Such threads can provide an excellent opportunity to remind (or inform) the poster of the forgiveness of sins granted to us by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

As Martin Luther (I know how much Catholics love him! ) said:

“This one and firm rock, which we call the doctrine of justification…is the chief article of the whole Christian doctrine, which comprehends the understanding of all godliness…this doctrine is the articulus stantis et cadentis ecclesiae …if this article stands, the Church stands; if it falls, the Church falls.”

But - how is there forgiveness of sins, when people are told in Matt.5, “Be perfect as your father in Heaven is perfect” ? Since man is born corrupt and at enmity with God, and does not cease to be a sinner after justification, how are those words not unspeakably cruel ? We might as well be told to fetch the moon from heaven as to be perfect. Where is the Gospel in that ? The trouble is simple - the words of Christ are as deadly to us as the Law was to Paul: for they too reveal our sinfulness, also without providing a remedy.​

There is no Good News - the requirements of Christ bring knowledge of sin, and condemnation, and Hell-fire at the end. What we need is a Gospel to mend the present one, and a new Church, to mend the 2,000 years of Christian evil that have passed. For what is the history of those years, if not the proof of the triumph of Satan and the spread of his empire ? Christians are worse than wolves - they have filled the rearth with blood and slaughter. It is Christianity that is the Great Whore drunk on the blood of men.

• How is Christianity not Satanic ?
• Its fruits are evil; it is a deadly plague. Can you deny any of this ?
• Are slavery and war the will of God ? Which Church has not engaged in these or other evils ?
• The record of Christianity shows it is from Hell. If any other body had comitted the horrors of which Christians have been guilty, that body would be called evil, and rightly so: how then is Christianity not evil ?
• And how can such abominations be forgiven ? How is it not immoral to forgive such wickedness ?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Read Matthew 25. According to the bible, obeying Jesus’ commands and doing right is what we will be judged on, not our beliefs.

Which is why orthodoxy in doctrine is so pointless. ​

 

[Luke65]

Which is why orthodoxy in doctrine is so pointless. ​

Orthodoxy in doctrine is first and foremost about humility and obedience. It’s all about surrendering ourselves to God - having complete faith in His Word, including His promises that His Church will be “the pillar and foundation of the truth”, against which “the gates of Hell will not prevail”. And so we must give our full assent to all She teaches and submit ourselves to Her authority. This is the will of God. And when we do His will, He rewards us with His graces so that we may know the truth with certainty, and so that we may obey all His commandments, including confessing our sins when we fall short. God’s plan is perfect. If only more people tried it.

 

[I_Am_Blessed]

Not to put limits on God’s grace and mercy, but no I don’t.

Nope.

Like I said, all I was asking for was that when we discuss sin, we discuss the forgiveness of sins as well. Law and Gospel.

This site has some very devoted people who make thousands of posts over time, and some do know the rules and laws of the Church and instruct as to those and are not the ones in the confessional or priests to ask about forgiveness and if they think God can forgive or what he thinks. Most are lay people who can type what they believe, some we take with a grain of salt, not that they are incorrrect but they have their thoughts and well meaning. Many are saying by what they type, I have no divine power to guide you or should. Only God can judge, however, we must recognize when we’ve done wrong in the eyes of this religion or ask here about what is wrong. Many of the people posting here know Church law and rules. They can advise you as to it or invite further questions. I too wish there were more positive than negative as to sin, but that the burden of being Catholic to feel guilt and confession is handy. I’m told Jewish women feel this guilt too, but that’s part of being of that faith for them. (I’m kidding around a bit on that)

 

[Reuben_J]

Why is it that every other thread throughout the Catholic forums is titled something like,

“Is XYZ a sin?” or “Is ABC a mortal or venial sin?” or “Would it be sinful if I XYZ?”

The responses then attempt to parse out what various church fathers think about it, what different councils think, what Scripture teaches, etc, to determine the extent of an action’s sinfulness and the eternal implications thereof.

But I ask: Where is the Gospel? Where is the forgiveness of sins? Where is the comfort that our Lord Jesus provides to the conscience of the repentant sinner who believes in Him?

Praise God for sin is forgiven of sinners who repent. Pefectly in congruent with Catholic belief.

Please, when responding to these threads, remember that WHATEVER sin the poster is discussing, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, died for it. And please remind the poster of that. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be terrified on account of our sins, but as we learn in Homiletics class, the Gospel MUST predominate. Chances are, if a sinner is asking about their sin at all, they’re probably penitent. If they weren’t, and they didn’t care, they wouldn’t bother asking. Such threads can provide an excellent opportunity to remind (or inform) the poster of the forgiveness of sins granted to us by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

No problem with this at all. What is your problem?

However, sin is only forgiven is the poster repent. Knowing what sin is for the sake of knowing it is insufficient. If you are not regretting for having committing or living it or not making a decision to sin no more or to change your life so that you will sin no more, it means nothing, after knowing what your sin is, it makes no different to you and you live the old life as if nothing has happened.

It helps to know what sin is. A person who is ignorant of what constitutes sin may find himself not guilty to a degree compared to a person who knowingly commits the sin. Knowing what sin is so that we will not do it.

As Martin Luther (I know how much Catholics love him! ) said:

“This one and firm rock, which we call the doctrine of justification…is the chief article of the whole Christian doctrine, which comprehends the understanding of all godliness…this doctrine is the articulus stantis et cadentis ecclesiae …if this article stands, the Church stands; if it falls, the Church falls.”

Rather not talk about Luther. He had done bad thing; the consequence of his action had caused a church divided. I would not quote him to further the cause of Christianity.

 

[Newbie2]

Why is it that every other thread throughout the Catholic forums is titled something like,

Didn’t your mother tell you a million times not to exaggerate?

“Is XYZ a sin?” or “Is ABC a mortal or venial sin?” or “Would it be sinful if I XYZ?”

The responses then attempt to parse out what various church fathers think about it, what different councils think, what Scripture teaches, etc, to determine the extent of an action’s sinfulness and the eternal implications thereof.

Some people are looking for that sort of response.

But I ask: Where is the Gospel? Where is the forgiveness of sins? Where is the comfort that our Lord Jesus provides to the conscience of the repentant sinner who believes in Him?

Please, when responding to these threads, remember that WHATEVER sin the poster is discussing, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, died for it. And please remind the poster of that. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be terrified on account of our sins, but as we learn in Homiletics class, the Gospel MUST predominate. Chances are, if a sinner is asking about their sin at all, they’re probably penitent. If they weren’t, and they didn’t care, they wouldn’t bother asking. Such threads can provide an excellent opportunity to remind (or inform) the poster of the forgiveness of sins granted to us by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

I’d guess most of the posters already know about this, and are looking, as has been suggested, for guidance in attempting to be holy as we are instructed to be so.

As Martin Luther (I know how much Catholics love him! ) said:

“This one and firm rock, which we call the doctrine of justification…is the chief article of the whole Christian doctrine, which comprehends the understanding of all godliness…this doctrine is the articulus stantis et cadentis ecclesiae …if this article stands, the Church stands; if it falls, the Church falls.”

Epic fail.

It always interests me, as a former LCMS member, as to how some Lutherans and other protestants will critisize (and I’m not saying that Nominefili is doing this) the RCC as “man-made”, then go on to follow a man’s, in this case Luther’s teachings. A different topic for another thread, perhaps.

 

[LilyM]

‘Love is the fulfilling of the law’ as scripture says. ‘If you love me you will keep my commands’ as Our Lord says. “Go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them … AND teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you”. How is informing someone who asks (therefore clearly wanting answers and not resenting them) of what God’s commandments are, doing anything other than what Our Lord has told us is a crucial part of our faith?>

Put it another way - are you married? Or in a serious relationship? How would you feel if that one special person who professed immeasurable and undying love for you didn’t bother trying to find out which things they did pleased you and which things didn’t? Or, having asked, resented you for actually telling them the answer? Isn’t wanting to please the beloved, trying to find out what pleases and what upsets them, an essential part of love?

 

[nsper7]

Why is it that every other thread throughout the Catholic forums is titled something like,

“Is XYZ a sin?” or “Is ABC a mortal or venial sin?” or “Would it be sinful if I XYZ?”

The responses then attempt to parse out what various church fathers think about it, what different councils think, what Scripture teaches, etc, to determine the extent of an action’s sinfulness and the eternal implications thereof.

But I ask: Where is the Gospel? Where is the forgiveness of sins? Where is the comfort that our Lord Jesus provides to the conscience of the repentant sinner who believes in Him?

Please, when responding to these threads, remember that WHATEVER sin the poster is discussing, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, died for it. And please remind the poster of that. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be terrified on account of our sins, but as we learn in Homiletics class, the Gospel MUST predominate. Chances are, if a sinner is asking about their sin at all, they’re probably penitent. If they weren’t, and they didn’t care, they wouldn’t bother asking. Such threads can provide an excellent opportunity to remind (or inform) the poster of the forgiveness of sins granted to us by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

As Martin Luther (I know how much Catholics love him! ) said:

“This one and firm rock, which we call the doctrine of justification…is the chief article of the whole Christian doctrine, which comprehends the understanding of all godliness…this doctrine is the articulus stantis et cadentis ecclesiae …if this article stands, the Church stands; if it falls, the Church falls.”

Remember, antinomianism is just as bad as legalism.

And I hate to break it to you, but you are on a CATHOLIC forum, thus you are going to have CATHOLICS asking questions of other CATHOLICS about issues of CATHOLIC moral teaching. I know that must boggle your mind, but that’s how it works.

Then you have people such as myself who deal with Scrupulosity and have trouble discerning what is sinful versus not sinful, as well as what is mortal and venial (now I know Protestants won’t catch that distinction, but what do you know: this is a CATHOLIC forum).

 

[Nominefili]

Remember, antinomianism is just as bad as legalism.

I refer you to my earlier post on this thread:

But PLEASE KNOW I’m not arguing an antinomian position. Determining ones’s sin is important. I’m just saying that the forgiveness of sins is what ultimately saves us from damnation, and thus should predominate any discussion of sin.

And I hate to break it to you, but you are on a CATHOLIC forum, thus you are going to have CATHOLICS asking questions of other CATHOLICS about issues of CATHOLIC moral teaching. I know that must boggle your mind, but that’s how it works.

I don’t see any reason to be rude here. I don’t understand why the forgiveness of sins is so offensive to everyone. What is the point of Christianity if all we ever talk about is the Law? What did Jesus fundamentally change? Did He just trade the Law of Moses for His Law instead? Paul doesn’t think so.

Then you have people such as myself who deal with Scrupulosity and have trouble discerning what is sinful versus not sinful, as well as what is mortal and venial (now I know Protestants won’t catch that distinction, but what do you know: this is a CATHOLIC forum).

Once again, I refer you to my earlier post. I do think it’s important to hash out what’s sin and what isn’t. ALL I’m saying is that the penitent sinner needs to be reminded of the grace and forgiveness our Father offers us for the sake of His Son, Jesus Christ. I don’t care if you’re Catholic, Methodist, Anglican, or Lutheran, Jesus died on the cross for your sins, and to ignore that and just discuss our differing degrees of sin is to become a Pharisee. We all know how much Jesus liked their legalism.

 

[AwGusTeen]

But - how is there forgiveness of sins, when people are told in Matt.5, “Be perfect as your father in Heaven is perfect” ? Since man is born corrupt and at enmity with God, and does not cease to be a sinner after justification, how are those words not unspeakably cruel ? We might as well be told to fetch the moon from heaven as to be perfect. Where is the Gospel in that ? The trouble is simple - the words of Christ are as deadly to us as the Law was to Paul: for they too reveal our sinfulness, also without providing a remedy.​

There is no Good News - the requirements of Christ bring knowledge of sin, and condemnation, and Hell-fire at the end. What we need is a Gospel to mend the present one, and a new Church, to mend the 2,000 years of Christian evil that have passed. For what is the history of those years, if not the proof of the triumph of Satan and the spread of his empire ? Christians are worse than wolves - they have filled the rearth with blood and slaughter. It is Christianity that is the Great Whore drunk on the blood of men.

• How is Christianity not Satanic ?
• Its fruits are evil; it is a deadly plague. Can you deny any of this ?
• Are slavery and war the will of God ? Which Church has not engaged in these or other evils ?
• The record of Christianity shows it is from Hell. If any other body had comitted the horrors of which Christians have been guilty, that body would be called evil, and rightly so: how then is Christianity not evil ?
• And how can such abominations be forgiven ? How is it not immoral to forgive such wickedness ?

Gottle of Geer: I just lost all respect for you.

 

[spoiltvictorian]

I don’t think a discussion forum has to follow the format of a Law => Gospel sermon. The admonitions and obligations of Christians after they are converted aren’t the Law, they are simply answers to the question, “how should we live our new life?” Should we continue to support abortion? Should we have a beer? Think of John the Baptist’s counsel to the people to whom he had just preached the Gospel in Luke 3:

And the crowds asked John the Baptist, “What then should we do?”
He said to them in reply, “Whoever has two cloaks should share with the person who has none. And whoever has food should do likewise.”
Even tax collectors came to be baptized and they said to him, “Teacher, what should we do?”
He answered them, “Stop collecting more than what is prescribed.”
Soldiers also asked him, “And what is it that we should do?”
He told them, “Do not practice extortion, do not falsely accuse anyone, and be satisfied with your wages.”

That’s law in the sense that Christ saves those people from their inability to perfectly do those things, but it’s not the point. The point is that in our new life in Christ, we are different people now. We need practical advice on how to be different.

So, that’s a Lutheran rebuttal to the Lutheran question in this thread.