There's no OSAS

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guanophore said:
Yes. this promise applies to the sheep that know His voice, and follow Him. No one can pluck them, but they can jump out. God is able, ready, and willing to preserve all that choose to abide in Him. However, sheep can run off, and refuse to follow the voice of the shepherd. Most such sheep are eaten by wolves.
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A Good Shepherd does not let His sheep get lost or eaten by wolves.
Do you really believe Jesus would allow a stupid sheep (they are stupid from what I’ve read about them) to run off and stay lost or get eaten? You do not give Jesus much credit for His shepherding abilities.
I could see Jesus allowing His sheep to stray as long as they were within sight and within “rescue-range”, but no Good Shepherd would just let one of His stupid sheep get lost.
It would be like saying Jesus did not care about the sheep that His Father gave Him…“There goes another one…Oh well!”.
Jesus will honor His Father by making sure none of the sheep given Him from the Father ever gets lost for good. He will bring them all home to the Father.
Jesus will use His rod and staff to make sure all the sheep get home. That will put an end to the “run off” and get lost part of “free will” that many assume comes with the package of being in God’s flock. Good Shepherds do not lose any sheep, especially when they are God. He is a Great Deliverer and Protector of His own sheep.
 
Is not Christ the greatest example for all of us. Did He come down on earth and sit on a throne and preach about faith and not have works to back it up. When a person excepts Christ in their life isn’t there something different about that person? Or is it enough to just proclaim your love for Christ? Hey, I said it? No problem I can do what ever I want because Christ is going to remember me. First, through our faith, secondly our works are the bonding compound of our faith. It is like a brick layer who doesn’t use cement to seal bricks. Any sort of wind can knock them over, but the mason that uses cement his bricks are strong and will preservere through trying times. Have an open mind the Catholic Church is open to anybody.👍
 
brkn1 said:
I saved some of your post to ask a question:
  1. How can “…an inheritance which is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.” be any of those things if the “inheritance” can be possibly lost for any reason?
    It can not be described as “imperishable” or “kept in heaven for you”, if we can lose it by our own mistake of rejecting it.
    Even an earthly understanding of a future inheritance would not be qualified to be called imperishable, since death or rejection or ignorance of that inheritance would make it effectively “perishable” possibly to a person that was supposed to inherit it.
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The Catholic Church does not teach that we become separated from our inheritance through a “mistake”. The prodigal son willfully left his father’s home. Looking back through the lens of his experience, he saw that it was a mistake, and corrected it. This grace is given to all of us. It is only those who willfully reject the grace of God that separate themselves from their inheritance. The Church also does not teach that ignorance can separate us from our inheritance. It may benefit you to study what the Church teaches about mortal sin. Mortal sin is not characterized by “mistakes” or “ignorance”. What is in heaven is immutable. The treasures that we store up there are imperishable. Human beings are not. We only come to those treasures by persisting until the end.
brkn1 said:
The words of the Bible are precise and must be completely true. This precision is not possible with your interpretation, but it is with OSAS.
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You are welcome to you interpetation of the Holy Writings, as are all. I am just pointing out that this is not what the Apostles taught.

2 Tim 2:10-13
10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also **may **obtain salvation in Christ Jesus with its eternal glory. 11 The saying is sure:

If we have died with him, we shall also live with him;
12 if we endure, we shall also reign with him;
**if we deny him, he also will deny us; **13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful -

for he cannot deny himself.

We agree that the words of the Bible are precise, and must be true. Why do you suppose there are so many passages that are phrased with “if” and “may” and “endure” when they are irrelevant?
 
brkn1 said:
A Good Shepherd does not let His sheep get lost or eaten by wolves.
Do you really believe Jesus would allow a stupid sheep (they are stupid from what I’ve read about them) to run off and stay lost or get eaten? You do not give Jesus much credit for His shepherding abilities.
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As a person who has had experience with sheep, I can certainly confirm that they are stupid. No, I do not believe that Jesus will lose any of His sheep by virtue of their stupidity. On the contrary, it would require persistent, willful, and oppositional spurning of His care to get away from Him. What people have that sheep do not is enlightenment. We are made partakers of His grace, so we have insight that a sheep does not. If, having been made partakers of His grace, we spurn His shepherding, He will allow us to walk away, just as He let many disciples walk away after the bread of life discourse in John 6.
brkn1 said:
Code: 
 I could see Jesus allowing His sheep to stray as long as they were within sight and within "rescue-range", but no Good Shepherd would just let one of His stupid sheep get lost.
It would be like saying Jesus did not care about the sheep that His Father gave Him…“There goes another one…Oh well!”.
Jesus will honor His Father by making sure none of the sheep given Him from the Father ever gets lost for good. He will bring them all home to the Father.
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I agree, on the stupid point. But a sheep that is willful, and refuses to respond the the shepherd’s voice (obey Him) is at great risk of being eaten by wolves.
brkn1 said:
Jesus will use His rod and staff to make sure all the sheep get home. That will put an end to the “run off” and get lost part of “free will” that many assume comes with the package of being in God’s flock. Good Shepherds do not lose any sheep, especially when they are God. He is a Great Deliverer and Protector of His own sheep.
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Some of the sheep make decisions that they don’t want to be part of His flock. God allows this, just as He allowed Adam and Eve the freedom in the Garden to choose to obey His commandments, or not. Those who refuse the commandments,
separate themselves from God through sin. The Good Shepherd will preserve all who remain in Him.
 
Again I will provide all the scripture that disprove the doctrine of OSAS:

Paul writes about his own struggles with sin:
Romans 7:15
“For I do not do what I want, but I do the very things I hate.”

And 1 Cor 9:[27] but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

Now you can say that Paul was one saved individual. Yet in all his letters, which mind you were written to those who were believers-those who according to SF & OSAS were saved-yet he wrote constantly about sin:

Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Romans 15:15 But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, **because of the grace given me by God **

Hebrews 10:26-29[26]
For **if we sin deliberately **after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
[27] but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.
[28] A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses.
[29] **How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? **

1 Corinthians 6:18 Shun immorality. Every other sin which a man commits is outside the body; but the immoral man sins against his own body.

1 Corinthians 11:17-22 [17]
But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse.
[18] For, in the first place, when you assemble as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you; and I partly believe it,
[19] for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.
[20] When you meet together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat.
[21] For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal, and one is hungry and another is drunk.
[22] What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? **Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not. **

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ is preached as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Ephesians 4:25-32
[25] Therefore, putting away falsehood, let every one speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another.
[26] Be angry but do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger,
[27] and give no opportunity to the devil.
[28] Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his hands, so that he may be able to give to those in need.
[29] Let no evil talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for edifying, as fits the occasion, that it may impart grace to those who hear.
[30] And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
[31] Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice,
[32] and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Ephesians 5:5 Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Colossians 3:24-25 [24]
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,
[25] of which I became a minister according to the divine office which was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known,

See also:
James 2:1 My brethren, show no partiality as you hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory.

So these are people who are “saved” according to the doctrine of Sola Fide and OSAS. Yet James goes on to write:

4:1-4 [1]
What causes wars, and what causes fightings among you? **Is it not your passions that are at war in your members? **[2] You desire and do not have; so you kill. And you covet and cannot obtain; so you fight and wage war. You do not have, because you do not ask.
[3] You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.

[4] Unfaithful creatures! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Matthew 5:31-48
[31] "It was also said, Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' [32] But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. [33] "Again you have heard that it was said to the men of old, You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’
[34] But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
[35] or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
[36] And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
[37] Let what you say be simply Yes' or No’; anything more than this comes from evil.
[38]
"You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' [39] But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; [40] and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; [41] and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. [42] Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you. [43] "You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
[44] But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
[45] so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
[46] For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
[47] And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
[48] You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

1 Peter 1:1-2 1] Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappado’cia, Asia, and Bithyn’ia, [2] chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

These are also people, according to the doctrines of S/F & OSAS who are “saved”.

& 2:1 "So put away all malice and all guile and insincerity and envy and all slander. "

2 Peter 1:1 [1] Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.

OSAS? I don’t think so.

Other problems with OSAS:
What about enduring to the end?
~ Matthew 10:22
~ Hebrews 10:35-36
~ Hebrews 12:1

Hope? If you have 100% assurance of salvation why do you need hope?
~ Romans 8:24-25
~ Romans 15:13
~ Romans 5:2

It seems obvious that Paul didn’t have absolute assurance:
~ Philippians 3:10-13
~ 1 Corinthians 9:26-27

Other verses that wouldn’t make sense if Protestant view is true:
~ 2 Corinthians 13:5-6
~ 1 Thessalonians 5:23
~ Philippians 2:12
~ Hebrews 4:1,11
~ Colossians 1:21-23

The “Book of Life”
~ Revelation 20:15
~ Psalms 69:28
~ Revelation 3:1-5

If once one is saved that salvation cannot be removed why would king David ask God to do something that he knew couldn’t be done? Why would David ask God to blot out someone’s name from the book of life if he knew it couldn’t be done?

And finally:
~ Hebrews 10:38
~ Ezekiel 33:12-19
~ Ezekiel 18:21-24
~ 1 Timothy 4:1
~ John 2:11 with John 6:16-22, 66 They-his disciples- believed in Him, then they rejected Him.
~ 2 Timothy 3:16- (Just incase one tries to say that the OT no longer applies to the NT)

How much scripture do you need to disprove the doctrine of OSAS?
 
Joey_13 said:
Is not Christ the greatest example for all of us. Did He come down on earth and sit on a throne and preach about faith and not have works to back it up. When a person excepts Christ in their life isn’t there something different about that person? Or is it enough to just proclaim your love for Christ? Hey, I said it? No problem I can do what ever I want because Christ is going to remember me. First, through our faith, secondly our works are the bonding compound of our faith. It is like a brick layer who doesn’t use cement to seal bricks. Any sort of wind can knock them over, but the mason that uses cement his bricks are strong and will preservere through trying times. Have an open mind the Catholic Church is open to anybody.👍
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Your example of the mason and the bricks is a very good one to describe our position once we become a member of Christ’s Church.
Remember that it is the Mason doing all the work to make us part of His building.
The brick can not fall over after the Mason applies the mortar or cement of true faith in Him. The brick can not then decide to move elsewhere after the Mason has set that brick. A Good Mason makes sure the brick will do its job of staying where He places it and He will not place a brick that He knows will fail. A mortal mason might make that mistake, but not if God is the Mason.

The same idea goes for other figures of speech that the Bible uses to describe God’s children in the Beloved.
Sheep being properly shepherded are safe from the world, especially when God is the Shepherd.
A fish that God catches is not laid down where it can just jump back into the water or get stolen by the evil one. God has a safe holding tank to keep His fish. He is not as careless as some suppose in protecting His catch.

The Good Shepherd sold all that He had to obtain His pearl of great price. Do you suppose He would just lay it on a table anywhere to roll away or be stolen. You might say that the pearl represents the whole church, but still you allow that God would let a piece of that pearl to be chipped out by the devil or his workers of evil. He wants the whole pearl that the Father gave Him at such a great price for both of Them; not only part of it.

Once a servant or slave or friend becomes God’s possession, he does not later get lost, even if that servant, slave, or friend foolishly decides to try to release or excuse himself from that commitment to God.
God has bored that servant’ ear to the post and that makes that servant permanently His. That servant might end up being a bad and even wicked servant, but God will make sure that His servant remains a member of His household.
There will be no “reigning” with Him later as a good and faithful servant would be priviledged to do, but that wicked servant will not lose his salvation. He will suffer tremendous loss of eternal priviledges as a result of his unfaithfulness, but not the loss of his permanent gift of salvation.
A wicked servant will suffer tremendously on earth too, as God does some serious chastening to straighten him out.
David was described by Jesus as a faithful servant, but there were times when David sinned terribly and he sure got beat up badly by God for those sins. God uses His rod to maintain and permanently preserve His sheep.
 
brkn1 said:
Your example of the mason and the bricks is a very good one to describe our position once we become a member of Christ’s Church.
Remember that it is the Mason doing all the work to make us part of His building.
The brick can not fall over after the Mason applies the mortar or cement of true faith in Him. The brick can not then decide to move elsewhere after the Mason has set that brick. A Good Mason makes sure the brick will do its job of staying where He places it and He will not place a brick that He knows will fail. A mortal mason might make that mistake, but not if God is the Mason.
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So are you saying that we are dead stones without any free will? Did not Jesus pick Judas, yet Judas fell? How do you explain that?

How do you explain Judas’ being chosen by God and then rejecting Him? How do you explain in John’s gospel those who saw Jesus multiply the loaves, walk on water, even bring Lazarus back from the dead, yet they rejected Him over the doctrine of the Eucharist(John 6:66)

(1 Peter 2:5) We are not dead stones but living stones. We have free will, we can reject the grace of God-like taking the mortar off that Christ has put on- as Satan and the fallen angels did(Luke 10:18; Rev 12:4). The grace of faith is a gift we receive from God, and it CAN be rejected just like any gift can.

But the Mason includes not only Christ but the Church which is IN Christ(Rom 12:4-5; 1 Cor 3:9) . The Church participates with Christ in the building of His Body.

This Body is both physical AND spiritual-it has a visible Body.

Scripture testifies to this fact:
John 17:[21] that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[22] The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
[23] I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.

The world cannot believe in what it cannot see, can it?

Matthew 18:[17] If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

In other words if a person will not listen to the Church then that person is to be tossed out.

Matthew 6:[14] For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you;
[15] but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

How can we enter heaven if we are not forgiven by God? So it is obvious that it is by faith and at least one work-forgiving others-that we are saved, is it not?
 
My sheep hear (listen to and pay attention to and learn from) my voice, and I know (recognize) them (because they listen to me) and they follow (imitate, obey) me. Because they do these things, I give them eternal life and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to Me, (because they love me and obey my Word and my commandments) is greater than all; (I do the Will of My Father and those who follow me also do the Will of my Father); and no one is able to snatch them (my true sheep who obey me) out of my Father’s hand. (He only puts those who love me (obey me) into His hand.)

This is the true meaning of the scripture passage. Obedience is necessary in order for us “to follow” Christ.
 
johnnydigit said:
OSAS just sounds so watered down and wishy-washy. as definitive as it sounds, it actually leaves you confused and uncertain. once you’re saved, you’re saved. if you sin, no problem. if you sin big, well then you were never really saved. what is a big sin? there is no definitive answer. …
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thank you so much for that… I had forgotten or lost sight of how crazy-making the whole OSAS thing can be… 🙂
 
ryanoneil said:
I don’t see how anyone could believe in OSAS after honestly reading Revelation chapter 2

How would they explain verses 5, 10, 16, and 23-26?

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
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I was recently told by an OSAS believer that the “books of life” are different. I guess that means there are some books of life you can be blotted out of, and still be saved?

I don’t get it either.
 
guanophore said:
I was recently told by an OSAS believer that the “books of life” are different. I guess that means there are some books of life you can be blotted out of, and still be saved?

I don’t get it either.
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I do! Protestant Mystery!

Those things that they believe but can’t explain because the Scriptures don’t provide any other information.
 
That is very interesting, but it is not what (Rev 20:11-15) says.

Oh well. 🤷
 
johnnydigit said:
OSAS just sounds so watered down and wishy-washy. as definitive as it sounds, it actually leaves you confused and uncertain. once you’re saved, you’re saved. if you sin, no problem. if you sin big, well then you were never really saved. what is a big sin? there is no definitive answer. so you never really know, and are hoping you never sin big. so you just hope and wish you’re saved, and hope you never commit a big sin. weak!

as you’re not ever really sure, you kinda shove it to the back of your mind and just hope for the best, going by “the spirit”, just “having faith”. weak!
this just will not do for me. i want a concrete answer. this is my life, my soul, my salvation. this is serious stuff. i want a church that is as sure about it as they are about God. there can only be one truth. it does not change. it is not unsure.

the gates have been opened, and it is up to you to make the decision every day to convert and do your best, knowing with fear and with trembling that you can fall. this is the incentive to be good. OSAS offers no incentive to be good because it’s a one-time, one-way ticket. this makes no practical sense to anyone, Christian or non-Christian.

there should be no BS. there is no compromise, your eternal soul is real and so there is no disagreement when determining heaven or hell.God wants to make sure you know what God is clearly saying to you = His confidence = His peace.

if there was no definitive explanation of salvation, i’d probably leave the religion and seek a definitive truth elsewhere…
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You seem to be describing the RCC formula for salvation with the “you never really know…so you just hope”.
A classic RCC question I notice here is “How do you know?”.
The answer I have is that God’s Word says so and the Holy Spirit makes that Word real to any true seeker that has been sealed (born from above) by God.
You, on the other hand, prefer to have some other fallible man or group of men do the work of making you “sure” that you are on the correct path to salvation. I do not trust men and their traditions. It was a group of religious leaders with their long history of “traditions” that told their followers to yell “Crucify Him!” When those followers stand before God at Judgement Day, they will not be able to use the weak excuse that their leaders told them to yell those words.

How is this for a definitive concrete answer to the question of your salvation? :

Peter boldly said:
“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)

The name is Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

The RCC says that they are another name that must be included in that formula for salvation, which “definitely” contradicts what Peter said, no matter how anyone tries to play around with God’s Word.
 
brkn1 said:
You seem to be describing the RCC formula for salvation with the “you never really know…so you just hope”.
A classic RCC question I notice here is “How do you know?”.
The answer I have is that God’s Word says so and the Holy Spirit makes that Word real to any true seeker that has been sealed (born from above) by God.
You, on the other hand, prefer to have some other fallible man or group of men do the work of making you “sure” that you are on the correct path to salvation.
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Really? who are they, and how do they do that work? :confused:
brkn1 said:
I do not trust men and their traditions. It was a group of religious leaders with their long history of “traditions” that told their followers to yell “Crucify Him!” When those followers stand before God at Judgement Day, they will not be able to use the weak excuse that their leaders told them to yell those words.
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I understand this. I think a lack of trust is the whole foundation for OSAS.
brkn1 said:
How is this for a definitive concrete answer to the question of your salvation? :

Peter boldly said:
“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)

The name is Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

The RCC says that they are another name that must be included in that formula for salvation, which “definitely” contradicts what Peter said, no matter how anyone tries to play around with God’s Word.
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Whose “name” is that?
 
distracted said:
True… and i believe probably the biggest reason for that is that they are affected by the mostly-Protestant society they live in… Monkey see-Monkey do… This world has become Protestantized… As the Scriptures say, “The devil is coming down hard on the world for he knows he has but a short time…”

(Sorry if that is too paraphrased)
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I think calling our society Protestantized is quite harsh. If I were a faithful member of a Protestant church, I would be highly insulted. The problem with our society today is secularism, not Protestantism. There are many Protestants who believe in following the laws of God to the best of their ability just as Catholics try to do.

Lets face it. Secularism has diluted the beliefs of many, including members of the Catholic Church. So lets not create wider divisions between members of the Catholic church and those who are not Catholic by such harsh judgements.
 
brkn1 said:
Your example of the mason and the bricks is a very good one to describe our position once we become a member of Christ’s Church.
Remember that it is the Mason doing all the work to make us part of His building.
The brick can not fall over after the Mason applies the mortar or cement of true faith in Him. The brick can not then decide to move elsewhere after the Mason has set that brick. A Good Mason makes sure the brick will do its job of staying where He places it and He will not place a brick that He knows will fail. A mortal mason might make that mistake, but not if God is the Mason.

The same idea goes for other figures of speech that the Bible uses to describe God’s children in the Beloved.
Sheep being properly shepherded are safe from the world, especially when God is the Shepherd.
A fish that God catches is not laid down where it can just jump back into the water or get stolen by the evil one. God has a safe holding tank to keep His fish. He is not as careless as some suppose in protecting His catch.

The Good Shepherd sold all that He had to obtain His pearl of great price. Do you suppose He would just lay it on a table anywhere to roll away or be stolen. You might say that the pearl represents the whole church, but still you allow that God would let a piece of that pearl to be chipped out by the devil or his workers of evil. He wants the whole pearl that the Father gave Him at such a great price for both of Them; not only part of it.

Once a servant or slave or friend becomes God’s possession, he does not later get lost, even if that servant, slave, or friend foolishly decides to try to release or excuse himself from that commitment to God.
God has bored that servant’ ear to the post and that makes that servant permanently His. That servant might end up being a bad and even wicked servant, but God will make sure that His servant remains a member of His household.
There will be no “reigning” with Him later as a good and faithful servant would be priviledged to do, but that wicked servant will not lose his salvation. He will suffer tremendous loss of eternal priviledges as a result of his unfaithfulness, but not the loss of his permanent gift of salvation.
A wicked servant will suffer tremendously on earth too, as God does some serious chastening to straighten him out.
David was described by Jesus as a faithful servant, but there were times when David sinned terribly and he sure got beat up badly by God for those sins. God uses His rod to maintain and permanently preserve His sheep.
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Hello. OSAS totally confuses me, no matter which scriptures are quoted. Although one accepts Christ and has a personal relationship with Him, one still sins. This is the human condition. How are those sins expiated? Does one just say, sorry God and go on, trying to do better? Only the most cleansed soul will be joined with God when we die. When one considers oneself saved, is this similar to Baptism where all sins are taken away? Or is it the realization one now belongs to Christ and will serve Him all through life? What if two people declare themselves “saved”, but differ in beliefs? Who is saved? Sorry for all the questions, but as I said, OSAS is strange terrain for me. Thanks.🙂
 
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