These are hard times, when the secular laws protect and promote same sex marriage and support abortion

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These are hard times, when the secular laws protect and promote same sex marriage and support abortion.

What makes it hard today, is when your religion teaches to obstain from such sin, we become a target for abuse for not supporting such sinful acts in the eyes of God.

I believe this is the crux of these times. If your religion does not support another’s view, your religion comes under attack. What ever happened to freedom of religion? Freedom of speech?
Is it allowed for a gay marriage to abuse my religion of freedom, to force my priest to marry a same sex couple because it is a secular law?

I wonder why President Obama administration promoted anti Christ methods?

And now the Joe Biden anti catholic approach to religion. Gee what did you expect Joe Biden to say?

It’s always donald Trump the problem.
 
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Fati said:
Is it allowed for a gay marriage to abuse my religion of freedom, to force my priest to marry a same sex couple because it is a secular law?
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No one is forcing clerics of whatever religion to perform same sex weddings.
 
Not yet but if Kamala Harris had her way she would probably eliminate non profit status for churches who did not perform same sex marriages.

"When Hobby Lobby approached the Supreme Court asking for an exemption to Obamacare’s contraceptive mandate, Harris was already the attorney general of California. In 2014, she filed an amicus brief, telling the Supreme Court not to give Hobby Lobby a religious exemption. “Rights to the free exercise of religious beliefs, whether created by statute or by the Constitution, likewise protect the development and expression of an ‘inner sanctum’ of personal religious faith,” she wrote. “Free-exercise rights have thus also been understood as personal, relating only to individual believers and to a limited class of associations comprising or representing them.”
 
With Biden’s pro-abortion cabinet, unborn children will be at more risk than ever. As will religious freedom.
 
Monica83 said:
"When Hobby Lobby approached the Supreme Court asking for an exemption to Obamacare’s contraceptive mandate, Harris was already the attorney general of California. In 2014, she filed an amicus brief, telling the Supreme Court not to give Hobby Lobby a religious exemption.
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Hobby Lobby is not a church, there’s a significant difference.
 
Many things are permitted by secular laws that are sinful, fornication, serial marriage, IVF, surrogacy, not observeg days of fasting, disobedience to those in authority in many cases, lying in many instances, I could go on and on and on.

We are to be light on this world, to bring love and kindness keep kindness, to work on growing.in holiness ourselves to getting the planks out of our own eyes. If we do what we are commanded He is faithful and just to take care of us.
 
Some of the things you have listed (mostly not fasting) are not sinful in and of themselves. As far as I am able to understand, there are certain things that are sinful simply because the Church has deemed it to be that way.

Perhaps I am wrong about that though.
 
Fasting is not only a doctrine, it is one of the basic precepts of the Church:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2043.htm

The fourth precept (“You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church”) ensures the times of ascesis and penance which prepare us for the liturgical feasts and help us acquire mastery over our instincts and freedom of heart.
 
Don’t get me wrong: I am not trying to argue against the efficacy of fasting (or abstinence for that matter). Any form of personal sacrifice is pleasant to God, these two have obviously been set above certain others since (its intention) is for the humility of the doer and the lifting up of those in need (fasting is, at least).

My point is that the fasts that are mandated by the church and not mandated (to the point of sinfulness) anywhere within scripture. Look at the specific part of that paragraph that you quoted:
“… which prepare us for the liturgical feasts and help us acquire mastery over our instincts and freedom of heart.”
This is not describing something that is absolutely necessary insofar as the grammar is concerned.

That being said, I would also like to point out that I still think it is a good thing - (EDIT: I have removed a part of the text that I did not intend, it is quoted below me).
 
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TheLittleLady said:
pain of sin
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It is only necessary under the pain of sin because the church has chosen for it to be, not necessarily by the design of God when it comes to grave matters. (EDIT:) If there is something that I am not aware of, please inform me because it would only serve to grow my understanding in faith. I am not trying to be obstinate and I hope you would forgive me if I have sounded that way.
 
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The church does not simply make capricious doctrines or precepts.

If that is the point of view, then, murder and fornication are also sins just because the church decided for them to be. Does that make sense?

There are teachings of the Church that are “tradition” with a small “t” or that are matters of discipline (for instance, the Eucharist fast length has been changed over the centuries or married men being ordained as priests is a discipline that can be changed because the church decides to change it).
 
We have the free exercise of religion and conscience in the U.S. Conscience is not only found within a church. And I can’t believe you think only clergy are allowed to oppose govt forcing one to do things against their beliefs. Literally, the reason the colonists(not clergy) came to the America in the first place was the British govt forcing people to go against their personal religious beliefs.
 
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RolandThompsonGunner said:
No one is forcing clerics of whatever religion to perform same sex weddings.
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Well, not yet anyway. If a Catholic parish would refuse to rent out space to a same sex couple for a wedding reception, would they be in violation of civil law? Or if a Catholic school does not accept students of a same sex couple or a cohabiting couple? Are Catholics and others allowed to practice their religion in their own buildings on their own property?
 
TheLittleLady said:
The church does not simply make capricious doctrines or precepts.

If that is the point of view, then, murder and fornication are also sins just because the church decided for them to be. Does that make sense?

There are teachings of the Church that are “tradition” with a small “t” or that are matters of discipline (for instance, the Eucharist fast length has been changed over the centuries or married men being ordained as priests is a discipline that can be changed because the church decides to change it).
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(I tailored my responses to each paragraph in the quote, I hope it makes it easier to understand what I’m talking about, this is an important conversation to me and if I am wrong I do hope to learn from it)

(1)Capricious? No. Unnecessary? Potentially.

(2) The issue of Fasting is not something I would personally hold as being equivalent to murder or fornication in their gravity. The church, however, apparently holds fasting on Fridays as being a grave matter such that it requires absolution (or it is insofar as I have been able to find, correct me if I am wrong).

(2) More importantly, there is a scriptural basis against murder and fornication. We can argue that both are present in the 10 commandments (although fornication is inferred through the notion of adultery); we can clearly see it in the writings of Paul; and Jesus conflates lustful eyes with adultery and anger/hatred with murder. (EDIT:) These are clear and scriptural - which means there is no need to hide behind any shield of tradition, dogma or doctrine. Fasting on certain days is a different story.

(3) There is an unusual amount of tradition that becomes sinful when not followed. Perhaps I am wrong and have been misinformed about the gravity of these things - but as far as I am aware there are a number of these “disciplines” that hold the threat of mortal sin behind them.
 
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JimG said:
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RolandThompsonGunner:
No one is forcing clerics of whatever religion to perform same sex weddings.
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Well, not yet anyway. If a Catholic parish would refuse to rent out space to a same sex couple for a wedding reception, would they be in violation of civil law? Or if a Catholic school does not accept students of a same sex couple or a cohabiting couple? Are Catholics and others allowed to practice their religion in their own buildings on their own property?
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It’s only a matter of time and this will be the reality. And it should not be a surprise that in a country that has accepted the slaughter of millions of children, no rights can be sacred. And at some point, those groups who have attained greater protection from racial and sexual discrimination will be persecuted even more harshly. The political winds will turn, unfortunately, and when your group doesn’t muster enough political power, off to the prisons and gallows you go.

Mother Teresa was prophetic: “If a parent can kill his/her child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another”. Very sad.
 
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Secular law does not “promote” gay marriage. It only seeks to guarantee equal protection, and that is exactly as it should be. The intent of secular law is not, nor should it be, the enforcement of catholic teaching. If that were the case that would violate MY freedom from religion. Thank God that you live in a country that doesn’t allow that, instead of one like Iran or Saudi Arabia where religious doctrine is strictly enforced. Women accused of “immoral” behavior are publicly whipped and tortured. Gay men are often killed. The president of Iran once said, when asked how gay males are dealt with, that they are “dropped from a high place”.
 
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