These are hard times, when the secular laws protect and promote same sex marriage and support abortion

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This still has nothing to do with the terms used in the US murder.
There are prayerful, honest, sincere, dedicated Catholic and Protestant God fearing protestors who carry signs saying that abortion is murder. Why should we not trust these wonderful Christian and God fearing people.
I know many honest politicians.
For example? How about Andrew Cuomo who says he never sexually harassed his accuser. Or how about Bill Clinton who says he never had sex with that woman. You trust them and their definitions over the prayerful people in favor of protecting the lives of the unborn?
Oh, and BTW, do you still claim that there were a total 600,000 abortions in the whole USA in a given year?
 
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I am not sure that murder should be a private matter. For example, if a woman murders her children and then murders her husband, why should that be a private matter? Let’s suppose the mother of the woman is sick and elderly. Should it then be a private matter if the woman murders her mother
Abortion isn’t murder. It is legal. Let’s not try to emotionally charge the issue by using false terms.
 
There are prayerful, honest, sincere, dedicated Catholic and Protestant God fearing protestors who carry signs saying that abortion is murder. Why should we not trust these wonderful Christian and God fearing people.
In the USA, they are free to use inaccurate language if they choose.

I, in honest discussion, prefer precise terms. I prefer to use the terms used by Holy Mother Church, and when she does not define a term, I will go to the legal, clinical, words.
For example? How about Andrew Cuomo who says he never sexually harassed his accuser. Or how about Bill Clinton who says he never had sex with that woman.
I do not know Mr Cuomo nor Mr Clinton, you asked me
How many honest and uncorrupt politicians do you know?
Then I responded with information about the honest politicians I do know.

Perhaps again we have a language breakdown? Did you perhaps mean “are you aware of ,< insert name of political figure > and the claims or evidence against them?”

We are going far off topic for the tread. I will once again suggest you open a new thread.
 
Sigh. A Diocesan paper is not an official source of teaching, you have posted an op-ed piece. Please see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, then, follow the footnotes to read far more indepth articles.

Have a blessed Advent.
 
A Diocesan paper is not an official source of teaching
But it does not contradict Catholic teaching.
The Catholic Review is the official publication of the Archdiocese of Baltimore. The Archdiocese of Baltimore is an official arm or part of the Roman Catholic Church.
The Church does NOT define abortion as murder
Show us where the Catholic church says that abortion is not murder. Official publications of Catholic offices say it is murder.
BTW, do you still claim that there were a total of about 619,591 abortions in the whole USA in 2018? Or do you admit that this claim is false and that my statistic of about 800,000 is closer to the real number?
 
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Show us where the Catholic church says that abortion is not murder. Official publications of Catholic offices say it is murder.
I will say again, this is NOT a thread about statistics and methodologies. Start a new thread.

Again, by official, I mean doctrinal documents. The op-eds of a Diocese are only that, opinions. They do not claim to be more than that.

As it is impossible to prove a negative, I cannot do the impossible.

Here are the four places the word “abortion” is used in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, you can look up the footnotes to find the full documents:

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae ,” “by the very commission of the offense,” and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice ( GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.

2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, “if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual. . . . It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence.”
 
The op-eds of a Diocese are only that, opinions.
It is an official publication of the Archdiocese of Baltimore. Can you name one Catholic bishop who said that the Archdiocese of Baltimore was wrong in declaring that abortion is murder or who ever said that abortion is not murder.
From EWTN:
“There is hope that the dormant majority of Christians will one day awaken to the terrible reality of abortion as murder. In the meantime, Christians continue to share the blame with the pro-abortionists for making possible one of the most abominable tragedies of humankind.”

I know many honest politicians.
Like for example Kamala Harris who while prosecuting those who used or sold marijuana, was smoking it herself and was laughing about smoking it?
As it is impossible to prove a negative, I cannot do the impossible.
It is not a negative. It is simply an observation that i do not know of any Catholic bishop who has ever said that abortion is not murder. Do you know of such?



https://www.pinterest.com/scottswife12410/abortion-is-murder/
 
I happen to believe that the abortion of a normal healthy fetus is unthinkable.
to many it doesn’t matter, the male has no rights in this issue, nor does the baby!!!
But that doesn’t give me the right to tell anyone else what to do.
sure it does, this is the killing of a child.

no matter what you call the living thing it will grow into their child and they are killing it.
I believe that supporting Trump is despicable and unamerican.
what doe this have to do with a parent killing her child?
 
The archdiocese of baltimore doesn’t get to define legal terms.
Right. It is people like Kamala Harris, former Attorney General of California, who got to interpret these legal terms. It is true that people will believe and admire Kamala Harris, who prosecuted people for marijuana, while laughing about it while smoking it herself, but will not believe the Catholic Archdiocese of Baltimore, or EWTN. And of course, they will believe the pro-abortionists like Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton, but will not believe the faithful Catholics who are praying and marching in an effort to save the lives of the innocent unborn. 800,000 murders of the unborn per year and people refuse to admit that it is murder. They will often say it is just a procedure.
 
Words matter.
would you agree direct abortion is the direct killing of a baby?
You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.
the ccc defines the person involved in the direct killing as a murderer

therefore a murder was committed, therefore abortion is murder per the CCC
2268 The fifth commandment forbids direct and intentional killing as gravely sinful. The murderer and those who cooperate voluntarily in murder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.
 
Correct. So let’s not call it something it isn’t.
what is considered legal doesn’t change the deeper conviction that murder is wrong.
  1. Is it possible to be concerned for truth, to seek the truth that responds to life’s deepest meaning? What is law without the conviction, born of age-old reflection and great wisdom, that each human being is sacred and inviolable? If society is to have a future, it must respect the truth of our human dignity and submit to that truth. Murder is not wrong simply because it is socially unacceptable and punished by law, but because of a deeper conviction . This is a non-negotiable truth attained by the use of reason and accepted in conscience. A society is noble and decent not least for its support of the pursuit of truth and its adherence to the most basic of truths. (enciclica-fratelli-tutti)
 
These are hard times, when the secular laws protect and promote same sex marriage and support abortion.

What makes it hard today, is when your religion teaches to obstain from such sin, we become a target for abuse for not supporting such sinful acts in the eyes of God.
At least regarding gay marriage, it’s a secular legal agreement which isn’t under the church’s purview, (the sacrament certainly is). Unfortunately since the government is offering benefits for married folks, it’s only fair for anyone who wants to get married be allowed to attain those same benefits, regardless of their gender or sexual orientation.

When it comes to abortion, it’s a horrible procedure, and a blight upon the Earth. Unfortunately, though, until we can truly address and rectify the reasons for why people want them, I’d rather have them performed safely and sanctioned by the government, than opposed to the black market or something.
 
Secular law provides the mechanism for state sponsored killings via the ‘death penalty.’
 
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