They burned Bibles....we didn't riot

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jeffrey
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jeffrey

Guest
Maybe we should’ve. Before they raped the women. Islam is a terrible ‘religion’.

jcpa.org/jl/vp490.htm
Even in the Roman Catholic areas of the complex there was evidence of disregard for religious norms. Catholic priests said that some Bibles were torn up for toilet paper, and many valuable sacramental objects were removed. “Palestinians took candelabra, icons and anything that looked like gold,” said a Franciscan, the Rev. Nicholas Marquez from Mexico
Click to expand...
 
The Bible in the Christian religion is not equivalent to the Qur’an in Islam. Muslims believe the Qur’an is the Word, so a better analogue to desecration of the Qur’an would be desecration of the Eucharist, which in earlier centuries could have provoked a religious war or two, and still would make quite a few Catholics supremely displeased, to put it mildly. As bad as tearing up Bibles is, it doesn’t compare to profaning the Eucharist for Catholics/Orthodox, or to desecrating the Qur’an for Muslims.
 
Jeffery,
What couldwe have done? Changed their minds to think maybe that wasnt the right thing to do? People will always be dumb and therefore will always do dumb things. It’s rather unfortunate.
 
40.png
ybeayf:
The Bible in the Christian religion is not equivalent to the Qur’an in Islam.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ. The Bible is very important to me.

The only thing I can say is, no matter what they do to the Bible…they cannot change God’s Word.

They will have to answer for that IMO.
 
Actually, there is a daily desecration of the Bible - just look at all those people who hate religion. They do it all the time.

Maybe they don’t flush the Bible, but they try to flush the Bible’s teachings.

Maybe they don’t burn the Bible, but they’re burning something else.
 
Did we riot when the Eucharist is on Ebay? No. We rallied and got it taken off.

Jeffery, I totally agree with you on the Bible.
 
40.png
mommy:
Did we riot when the Eucharist is on Ebay? No. We rallied and got it taken off.
Click to expand...
Yet one more example of how Islam is not the true religion of Peace.
 
Did we riot when the Eucharist is on Ebay? No. We rallied and got it taken off.
Click to expand...
Like I said, that’s what we do today, but a few hundred years ago a thing like that could have provoked a war.
 
I beg to differ. The Bible is very important to me.
Click to expand...
I don’t doubt that; however, for Catholics and Orthodox, the Bible is not the pre-existent Logos on Earth, the Eucharist is. For the Muslims, the Qur’an is the Logos that existed before time, and the closest analogue they have to Christ.
 
40.png
ybeayf:
The Bible in the Christian religion is not equivalent to the Qur’an in Islam. Muslims believe the Qur’an is the Word, so a better analogue to desecration of the Qur’an would be desecration of the Eucharist, which in earlier centuries could have provoked a religious war or two, and still would make quite a few Catholics supremely displeased, to put it mildly. As bad as tearing up Bibles is, it doesn’t compare to profaning the Eucharist for Catholics/Orthodox, or to desecrating the Qur’an for Muslims.
Click to expand...
This is the correct analogy…to Muslims, the Qur’an is the Word which came directly from God, and to Christians, Jesus is the Living Word which came directly from God.

So, I guess my Islamic studies class came in handy. Had to have 3 hours in non-Western civilizations.
 
40.png
ybeayf:
The Bible in the Christian religion is not equivalent to the Qur’an in Islam. Muslims believe the Qur’an is the Word, so a better analogue to desecration of the Qur’an would be desecration of the Eucharist, which in earlier centuries could have provoked a religious war or two, and still would make quite a few Catholics supremely displeased, to put it mildly. As bad as tearing up Bibles is, it doesn’t compare to profaning the Eucharist for Catholics/Orthodox, or to desecrating the Qur’an for Muslims.
Click to expand...
It most certainly DOES compare. The fact that many Christians do not understand the sacredness of the Bible does not make it less so. In the Mass, we have the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

The Bible is part of the Word. The Word is Jesus Himself. The Bible is sacred and it is sacramental in that it has the effect of making one holy through grace when read with proper disposition.

It would compare to profaning the Eucharist and/or desecrating the Qur’an.
 
The Bible is part of the Word. The Word is Jesus Himself.
Click to expand...
The Bible is most certainly NOT part of the Word. It is an icon of the Word, and can lead one to an understanding of the Word, but is not the Word Itself. The Word is Christ, the Bible is an icon of Christ.

Put another way, reading the Bible is not a direct experience of Christ, but an indirect one. Receiving the Eucharist is a direct experience. Muslims see reading the Qur’an as a direct experience of God as well – it is how they participate in the divinity.
 
40.png
ybeayf:
The Bible is most certainly NOT part of the Word. It is an icon of the Word, and can lead one to an understanding of the Word, but is not the Word Itself. The Word is Christ, the Bible is an icon of Christ.

Put another way, reading the Bible is not a direct experience of Christ, but an indirect one. Receiving the Eucharist is a direct experience. Muslims see reading the Qur’an as a direct experience of God as well – it is how they participate in the divinity.
Click to expand...
Interesting that for once I agree with somebody on this forum. You are quite right, the Bible is simply a tool for passing on the word of the Lord. It is sometimes dispiriting to watch a congregation in the church when the reading are being made, heads down following the reading in the missal. That is wrong, the word is read by the lector for the people to LISTEN to, not to read along with. It is even worse when the celebrant or deacon is reading the Gospel to see the number of people, heads bent following the text with their finger!!!

One of the obligations of ordination is to say the “Office” on a daily basis (morning and evening prayer if you’re a deacon). This is not the Bible, it is a collection of readings, psalms, canticles and prayers. Would you be as dismayed to see the Office defiled? Prayers from the Bible are often published in newspapers, these in turn may be used for anything, Bibles are often sold, second hand in markets and down market shops, is this a defiling of the Word of God? of course not. The Word of God is in your heart, not on newsprint, pages in the Office or even the Bible.
 
40.png
walstan:
It is sometimes dispiriting to watch a congregation in the church when the reading are being made, heads down following the reading in the missal. That is wrong, the word is read by the lector for the people to LISTEN to, not to read along with
Click to expand...
Unfortunately in my church we have a reader who is vietnamese and can barely pronounce most english words. I have to follow in the missal just to understand what he’s saying.
 
It seems to me that putting an individual copy of the Koran above a human life is idolatry. I don’t see how the Koran can compare to the Eucharist. We believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. In other words, it is Jesus. Do Muslims believe that an individual copy of the Koran is God? If not, than they shouldn’t worship it, or put human lives beneath it.

Catholics and Orthodox have sacramentals, which are to be respected, but not worshiped. When the Church in Bethlehem was desecrated by Muslims, did any of the priests or friars put those sacramental objects ahead of their own lives? I don’t think so, although the media didn’t report this story very well.
 
N.B. I am a former Muslim, so I have somewhat of an inside perspective on this.
Do Muslims believe that an individual copy of the Koran is God? If not, than they shouldn’t worship it, or put human lives beneath it.
Click to expand...
There’s actually some ambiguity about this. Muslims say that the Qur’an is not God, but rather the Word of God. They do say that it is uncreated, and so has always existed. The Hanbali school goes even further, and states that not only is the meaning of the Qur’an pre-existent, but the actual sounds and letters of the Arabic text are uncreated as well. Basically, the Muslims would say that “in the beginning was the Qur’an, and the Qur’an was with God.” They stop at saying “the Qur’an was God”, but that is the logical conclusion of their beliefs, resistant as they may be to it.
Catholics and Orthodox have sacramentals, which are to be respected, but not worshiped. When the Church in Bethlehem was desecrated by Muslims, did any of the priests or friars put those sacramental objects ahead of their own lives?
Click to expand...
Muslims have sacramentals as well – books of commentary, rosaries, amulets, and so on. None of them are in the same class as the Qur’an, which Muslims see as the most precious thing on Earth. There are all sorts of rules about handling the Qur’an, which come close to the reverence shown to the Eucharist. One must be in a state of ritual purity to touch a Qur’an or recite its verses; it must never touch the ground; it is kissed when picked up or put away; it cannot be bought or sold; a non-Muslim may not be allowed to touch it. Reciting one letter of the Qur’an is equivalent to ten good deeds, and there is a hadith that states that the level of heaven one will end up in depends on how long one can continuously recite the Qur’an.
 
40.png
StJeanneDArc:
It seems to me that putting an individual copy of the Koran above a human life is idolatry. I don’t see how the Koran can compare to the Eucharist. We believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. In other words, it is Jesus. Do Muslims believe that an individual copy of the Koran is God? If not, than they shouldn’t worship it, or put human lives beneath it.

Catholics and Orthodox have sacramentals, which are to be respected, but not worshiped. When the Church in Bethlehem was desecrated by Muslims, did any of the priests or friars put those sacramental objects ahead of their own lives? I don’t think so, although the media didn’t report this story very well.
Click to expand...
I agree with you 100%. If their religion says that a book, printed yesterday, is the word which came directly from God, they are illogical and ignorant. I have no problem with someone believing that the content is sacred, but a book is merely a vessel. What happens if you are reading it and accidentally rip a page? Death penalty?

Unfortunately, the US government has funded desecration of religion through the NEA (Crucifix in urine, sculptures of genitalia made out of Bibles, etc.). While there is disgust and outrage, we don’t have riots. Nor, have we demanded that the artists be put to death.

Religion of peace? Please.
 
40.png
ybeayf:
N.B. I am a former Muslim, so I have somewhat of an inside perspective on this.

There’s actually some ambiguity about this. Muslims say that the Qur’an is not God, but rather the Word of God. They do say that it is uncreated, and so has always existed. The Hanbali school goes even further, and states that not only is the meaning of the Qur’an pre-existent, but the actual sounds and letters of the Arabic text are uncreated as well. Basically, the Muslims would say that “in the beginning was the Qur’an, and the Qur’an was with God.” They stop at saying “the Qur’an was God”, but that is the logical conclusion of their beliefs, resistant as they may be to it.

Muslims have sacramentals as well – books of commentary, rosaries, amulets, and so on. None of them are in the same class as the Qur’an, which Muslims see as the most precious thing on Earth. There are all sorts of rules about handling the Qur’an, which come close to the reverence shown to the Eucharist. One must be in a state of ritual purity to touch a Qur’an or recite its verses; it must never touch the ground; it is kissed when picked up or put away; it cannot be bought or sold; a non-Muslim may not be allowed to touch it. Reciting one letter of the Qur’an is equivalent to ten good deeds, and there is a hadith that states that the level of heaven one will end up in depends on how long one can continuously recite the Qur’an.
Click to expand...
This is very interesting. Do Muslims make any distinction between the abstract word of God and the actual individual copy of the Koran? Obviously, someone is producing the Koran and has to obtain the raw materials to produce the Koran, so those can be bought and sold. If it cannot be bought or sold, how is it distributed? Is there some point at which the Koran is officially consecrated as such, at which point it becomes sacred and the norms apply? What happens to those Korans that deteriorate and must be disposed of? What happens to an individual who inadvertantly damages or destroys a Koran?
 
40.png
ybeayf:
The Bible is most certainly NOT part of the Word. It is an icon of the Word, and can lead one to an understanding of the Word, but is not the Word Itself. The Word is Christ, the Bible is an icon of Christ.

Put another way, reading the Bible is not a direct experience of Christ, but an indirect one. Receiving the Eucharist is a direct experience. Muslims see reading the Qur’an as a direct experience of God as well – it is how they participate in the divinity.
Click to expand...
Reading the Bible is a direct experience with God if properly disposed.

Desecrating an icon of the faith, especially one as important as the Bible, is a serious offense against that faith and is gravely offensive.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top