They hate us, they really hate us

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It did not come from on high, humans made Latin, just like English or any other language.
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And humans made the bread as it is recited in the OF Offertory. What’s your point? We’re speaking Christianized Latin here, not some barbaric language. And it can be used in the OF.
 
This thread is barely 2 hours old and already it’s gotten nasty. My my, but that has to be some sort of record. 😦

Whatever … it seems to me that the OP was asking a legitimate question, which appears to have been ignored. I won’t ignore it, but the topic has been dealt with before. One interesting thread was [thread=301562]Are Some People Afraid Of The Latin Mass ?[/thread] from a little over 2 years ago, and there are others as well. Perhaps a look there first might provide a better foundation for this thread than do the “digs” that have so far proliferated here.
 
@lizaanne

I agree with you completely.

Stylites comment about worshiping worship is just one of the many insults directed at Catholics who recognize the efficacy of traditional forms of Catholic devotions.

Here’s another insult I just read on Fr. Zuhlsdorf website:

catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2011/06/03/a-major-centre-for-eucharistic-adoration-and-the-old-mass-it%E2%80%99s-the-latest-episcopal-surge-forward/

Scroll down to the part of the article that is italisized and highlighted in blue for the apparent comments of an unnamed bishop in regards to inviting a traditional priestly society to serve in his diocese.

These are typical of the insults we’ve been hearing for years.
 
ProVobis said:
And humans made the bread as it is recited in the OF Offertory. What’s your point? We’re speaking Christianized Latin here, not some barbaric language.
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And, might I add, that this is a language set apart and used only for the worship of God (ecclesiastical Latin, not the Latin used by lawyers or doctors, you know, those dead professions :rolleyes: ). The beauty of using a language that does not change, is that you never risk an incorrect interpretation based on current language changes. Take the word “gay” for example - it certainly does not mean today what it meant decades ago!

~Liza
 
ProVobis said:
And humans made the bread as it is recited in the OF Offertory. What’s your point? We’re speaking Christianized Latin here, not some barbaric language. And it can be used in the OF.
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Wow! What’s a barbaric language? Swahili? Arabic? Armenian? Christians speak in all of those languages, and the Mass is said in all of those languages (and was said in Arabic and Armenian, even before the 1960s.) Today is the feast of a group of martyrs who died for Chritianity in Uganda. Is Ugandan or the dialect they spoke on your list of barbaric languages?
 
manualman said:
One of the toughest lessons of the christian life is to realize the PEOPLE are not our enemies, regardless of how badly they treat us. Charitably speaking, she most likely doesn’t hate you or “us.” She hates something she experienced in the past. She might even mistake you as being the ‘same’ sort of person that created that experience in the past. Maybe it was abuse by a priest back in the TLM days and she conflates the two somehow. Maybe she assumes that the old liturgy created some mean old crusty pastor who refused to fix the the boiler in the convent properly or safely remove the asbestos. Who knows?

The best way to discredit her hostility is to be the light of Christ, turn the other cheek and don’t respond in kind. Who knows, she might even see her mistake and realize that neither you nor other catholics who yearn for clear teaching on sin and Grace and undiluted liturgy are evil after all. If not, it matters less all the time. Her generation is nearly all retired now and because of her attitude and those like her, the next generation is so ignorant of catholic liturgical and devotional traditions that they generally have no innate hostility towards it.

The times are about to get interesting. Don’t get mad, just lift your lamp.
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👍 Great post!! I needed to hear that…
 
Really this is post isn’t not about hate or even hate towards another person as I read it from above. It is about the fear of change.

For many the Catholic Church is comfort and brings a joyful spark to their life. This is much like your being on your sofa at home staying warm and safe under your favorite blanket and pillow on a rainy day. It is a place to feel at peace at.

Change is stressful for most, and is like going to your sofa and finding your blanket is now missing. It isn’t that there really is any difference in the serenity that you find in church, but many may fear that it won’t be the same.
 
malphono said:
This thread is barely 2 hours old and already it’s gotten nasty. My my, but that has to be some sort of record. 😦
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The nastiness really started with the thread’s title before it even moved into the body. Ten to twelve years ago there was no licit Mass said in Latin, so the nun, who so far has not been afforded the right to speak in her own defense, was correct. “Gimmicks” and “looks could kill” and “strongly suspected reactions” sound strongly subjective.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
What bothers me, saddens me, angers me and frustrates me is threads like this that put an “us vs. them” mentality to our Church. If you find the TLM to fit your spirituality better, I have no problem with that, and I hope that you have access to one. However, to say that I 'hate" you because of it is quite the stretch. Just another one of my issues with many of the more “traditionallly minded” people I have met- the mentality that if you are not with them 100%, you are against them and the Church.

So sad…😦
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Look at it this way - I think it’s human nature rank the actions of others as having a “higher” or “lower” status than ours. You see the same, us. vs. them mentality when discussing stay-at-home vs. working mothers, organic vs. non-organic gardening, parents who vaccinate vs. parents who don’t, just a whole host of issues. I think the cause for this goes way, way back to our days in the caves, when getting in with the right clique was a matter of life of death for an individual. Affiliate yourself with the wrong group of hunters and you might starve.

The way I look at it is this - if people want to judge me as a “lesser” Catholic simply by dint of the fact that I attend the ordinary form of the Mass most Sundays, I say let 'em. Lord knows I’ve been judged and found wanting in more areas than just my religiosity. If in their minds they’re more better, more true, more faithful Catholics because they attend TLMs, I can live with that, too.

And as far as feeling persecuted for your beliefs, please keep in mind that nothing solidifies the idea you’re on the right path quite like knowing other people despise and mock you for what you’re doing. 🙂
 
Stylites said:
The nastiness really started with the thread’s title before it even moved into the body.
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I totally disagree.
Stylites said:
Ten to twelve years ago there was no licit Mass said in Latin, so the nun, who so far has not been afforded the right to speak in her own defense, was correct.
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That’s not quite accurate, and no, the sister was NOT correct.
Stylites said:
“Gimmicks” and “looks could kill” and “strongly suspected reactions” sound strongly subjective.
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The OP recounted an incident that she experienced, so of course it’s subjective. I didn’t see anything in the OP’s post to claim otherwise.
 
Stylites said:
The nastiness really started with the thread’s title before it even moved into the body. Ten to twelve years ago there was no licit Mass said in Latin, so the nun, who so far has not been afforded the right to speak in her own defense, was correct. “Gimmicks” and “looks could kill” and “strongly suspected reactions” sound strongly subjective.
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I try not to read nothing entitled with HATE, but curiosity got the best of me.

I agree with your posts.
 
Stylites said:
The nastiness really started with the thread’s title before it even moved into the body. Ten to twelve years ago there was no licit Mass said in Latin, so the nun, who so far has not been afforded the right to speak in her own defense, was correct. “Gimmicks” and “looks could kill” and “strongly suspected reactions” sound strongly subjective.
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I’m not sure you’re correct here. Since the TLM was never ‘abrogated’ and since there are other places in the world beside the U.S., there most certainly WERE ‘licit Masses said in Latin’ --and yes, I’ll wager in the U.S. too, 10-12 years ago. Weren’t the FSSP active then and before?
 
Oneofthewomen said:
Speaking for myself, as someone who, at least on this board is considered “ultra-liberal”(which I find extremely amusing since most in my Diocese consider me too conservative!! :hmmm:)
I do not “hate” traditions, nor does anyone that I know.

Actually, I do not “hate” anything, (except maybe liver, but that’s a different story!;))

What bothers me, saddens me, angers me and frustrates me is threads like this that put an “us vs. them” mentality to our Church. If you find the TLM to fit your spirituality better, I have no problem with that, and I hope that you have access to one. However, to say that I 'hate" you because of it is quite the stretch. Just another one of my issues with many of the more “traditionallly minded” people I have met- the mentality that if you are not with them 100%, you are against them and the Church.

So sad…😦
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I agree. It saddens me too. Sometimes people just don’t understand especially converts who did not grow up with the Latin Mass. We need not respond in an uncharitable way to their posts. It is an opportunity for us to enlighten them why we do what we do. I’ve seen some otherwise good posts if it were not for the demeaning remarks that accompany them.

Also, what someone said more than ten years ago about the Latin Mass does not mean that they think the same today about it. Today, there is a growing love for the return of the Latin Mass that wasn’t here a decade ago, at least not in our diocese. I grew up with the Latin Mass and loved it even as a child. But I was also appreciative when we had the Mass celebrated in the vernacular. Over the years I have enjoyed occassionally singing hymns in Latin particularly at Benediction as well as singing parts of the Mass in Latin. I have attended the TLM only on a few occassions. I have to say that I now prefer the OF. But that does not mean that I hate the TLM.
 
Who are THEY in the title?

fellow Catholics? Ones who share your faith?

This is so sad…
 
I got angry and I wanted to scream when I read ‘NO Mass’.

I cannot imagine that anyone use it without association to no Mass.

Every valid Mass is the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and there is just one Christ and one Mass, only several forms and several rites, representing the the same Christ.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
I’m not sure you’re correct here. Since the TLM was never ‘abrogated’ and since there are other places in the world beside the U.S., there most certainly WERE ‘licit Masses said in Latin’ --and yes, I’ll wager in the U.S. too, 10-12 years ago. Weren’t the FSSP active then and before?
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The TLM may never have been “abrogated” but the average catholic did not know that ten years ago.
 
zab said:
The TLM may never have been “abrogated” but the average catholic did not know that ten years ago.
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Even if no Catholic in the world ‘knew’ the TLM had not been abrogated, that wouldn’t have made it abrogated.

And as I said, there were places in the U.S. where it was licitly celebrated, so the idea as was originally stated by one poster that the nun was ‘right’ in her criticism because 'there was no LICIT TLM at the time" is what I’m objecting to.

First, the TLM was always licit.
Second, it was being celebrated (at least by some) even if ‘many’ were not aware.
Third, even if the sister truly thought (however erroneously) that it was ‘abrogated’, her response would still be wrong because the TLM was still licit.
 
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