They just can't be right! (After all, they're Catholics aren't they?)

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teresas1979:
It’s precisely these comments that are driving people away from the Catholic Church. I have had many personal issues with Catholicism and whenever I highlight them to a Catholic in person, online or whatever (including Bishops, Priests, Deacons) this is the kind of attitude I face. I am STILL a Catholic, merely questioning Catholicism and the more badly I am treated (and the above is a weak example) the more I will find there is “no home in Rome”
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Dear teresas1979,
Please don’t take our sense of humor wrong. We go out of our way to answer honest questions from Catholics or anyone else that want to know the reason for the hope that is in us. If someone has hurt your feelings previously when you asked an honest question, then allow me to apologize on behalf of all of us who love to talk about the Faith and would love to assist you in any way that we can.
Please PM me with anything that you would like help with and I’ll do my best to help you find the answers that you need.

The response you see above is an attempt to make humorous light of the neverending attacks we get from non-Catholics who can’t (or don’t want to) understand about the Eucharist. It’s sad, frustrating, and to be honest, sometimes I and others make jokes to laugh to keep from cryin’ . It’s not that the Church doesn’t have good answers…it’s that people sometimes just plain don’t want us to be right. That’s one reason I opened this thread to begin with. My initial post is a statement of just exactly what we get treated like very often. “If Catholics believe it then it just plain can’t be right.” Which is patently untrue.

Let me try to be your friend and maybe we can find these answers that you want together.
C’mon…lemme walk with you for a while. 🙂
 
Forgive me for joining the discussion this late (I hope to be relevant). I found that those who attack the faith would attack it solely on the basis of what they think the doctrines are. (Intercession of the saints, Papal infallibility,etc.) As a former Prot. minister I had discussions with other ministers who attacked the Catholic faith, but yet have never stepped foot in a Catholic church, let alone pick up a Catechism (I was also a Catholic prior to ‘protestant conversion’). The greatest problem is discussing something with one who is arguing from a point of ignorance; therefore, it is left to the Protestants to say that if the Catholics believe something it must be wrong. Which leaves a question (probably not relevant to the thread) to the Protestants: Are there any that have inherited eternal life who lived between 300-1500AD (prior to the reformation)?

Have a good day everyone.
 
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mj330:
Forgive me for joining the discussion this late (I hope to be relevant). I found that those who attack the faith would attack it solely on the basis of what they think the doctrines are. (Intercession of the saints, Papal infallibility,etc.) As a former Prot. minister I had discussions with other ministers who attacked the Catholic faith, but yet have never stepped foot in a Catholic church, let alone pick up a Catechism (I was also a Catholic prior to ‘protestant conversion’). The greatest problem is discussing something with one who is arguing from a point of ignorance; therefore, it is left to the Protestants to say that if the Catholics believe something it must be wrong. Which leaves a question (probably not relevant to the thread) to the Protestants: Are there any that have inherited eternal life who lived between 300-1500AD (prior to the reformation)?

Have a good day everyone.
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Hi mj330 and Welcome!
You sound like you’re on your way home. Are you?
It was just such attacks that inspired me to examine what real Catholicism teaches and to return to it.

Perhaps your final question is relevent to this thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=36068
which is sort of along that very issue. 🙂
Pax vobiscum,
 
Hello, Church Militant:

I was(?) catholic and now still contemplating being reconciled to the church. I had second thoughts awhile ago. I read an outstanding book in my search for truth entitled “The Catholic Controversy,” which is a compilation by St. Francis de Sales that rebutted much of the Calvinist theories. My protestant stance is Armenianism-ironically, the fact that there are such divergent theories on the salvation of man should lead one to believe that some of the reformers were misled; some protestants would argue that the assurance of the believer is not a core issue. Nonetheless, the inconsitency across the board in the beliefs handed down from the reformers led me to reconsider if I have missed the true blessings of being part of the true church.

Perhaps still searching for an answer- I believe that I know the answer.
 
Hello Church Militant,

I have read an excellent book by St. Francis de Sales entitled “The Catholic Controversy” that rebutted the arguments of the Calvinists. It is ironic that the Protestants would attack the Catholic faith, yet as a movement, they have groups that are polar opposites concerning the assurance of the believer ( I hold closer to the armenian theory)among other doctrines and write it off as not being necessary for salvation… I was considering reconciliation to the church awhile ago, but never did. I am still in the process of studying, although I believe I know what the truth is. I hope that I did not miss the blessings of being part of the true church (almost 18 years).
Mike
 
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teresas1979:
It’s precisely these comments that are driving people away from the Catholic Church. I have had many personal issues with Catholicism and whenever I highlight them to a Catholic in person, online or whatever (including Bishops, Priests, Deacons) this is the kind of attitude I face. I am STILL a Catholic, merely questioning Catholicism and the more badly I am treated (and the above is a weak example) the more I will find there is “no home in Rome”
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QUOTE by Lost & Found: "
Originally Posted by Lost&Found
Alright, no debating John ch 6 during Lent. Catholics get sinful amusement by watching Protestants trying to build the jigsaw puzzle while leaving half their pieces still in the box:p
“Leaving pieces in the box” - that is correct.
Those who “just can’t stand” the Catholic Church have many little barbs to throw, but I think Matt 16 :18 & 19 and then the Real Presence are the “Biggies”. Once they agree that Jesus built the Church on Peter and that He (Jesus) is present in the Eucharist - THE GAME IS OVER.
 
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mj330:
Forgive me for joining the discussion this late (I hope to be relevant). I found that those who attack the faith would attack it solely on the basis of what they think the doctrines are. (Intercession of the saints, Papal infallibility,etc.) As a former Prot. minister I had discussions with other ministers who attacked the Catholic faith, but yet have never stepped foot in a Catholic church, let alone pick up a Catechism (I was also a Catholic prior to ‘protestant conversion’). The greatest problem is discussing something with one who is arguing from a point of ignorance; therefore, it is left to the Protestants to say that if the Catholics believe something it must be wrong. Which leaves a question (probably not relevant to the thread) to the Protestants: Are there any that have inherited eternal life who lived between 300-1500AD (prior to the reformation)?

Have a good day everyone.
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THANK YOU. Real live experience is valuable. If the tables were turned, do you think 1/2 the Catholics would be speaking from ignorance? I say probably.
 
Exporter. You’re right; the problem exists on both sides of the fence. When I was spoken to by my protestant friends more than 20 years ago, I believe that I was defending the Catholic faith on unsound reasons. After my “conversion” I did not search out what the reformers spoke, but assumed that what I was told was true. In my new found zeal, I tried to convert others by attack tenets of the Catholic church, without fully understanding the basic differences between the two. That being said, now I realize the difference lies in the meaning of the work of Christ on the cross, that is, the Protestants hold a different view than Catholics by stating that the work paid the penalty for all sins future and past (someone can correct me if I’m wrong); whereas the Catholic position states that the penalty is paid through the sacrifice of the mass. All of the other issues are “secondary” to this; and I believe that the reformers held many of the positions that the church professed. AS ALWAYS, TIME AND DISTANCE SEPARATE US FROM THE TRUE INTERPRETATION OF EVENTS AND PEOPLE.
 
My favorite is when other denominations call Catholicism heresy. Basically at the end of the day, they believe the Pope can’t be infallible and that is one of our heretical beliefs, yet every Protestant seems to be their own little pope creating doctrine and deciding on orthodoxy on their own.

Millions of popes versus just one…I know where my vote is!
 
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jaydog77:
My favorite is when other denominations call Catholicism heresy. Basically at the end of the day, they believe the Pope can’t be infallible and that is one of our heretical beliefs, yet every Protestant seems to be their own little pope creating doctrine and deciding on orthodoxy on their own.

Millions of popes versus just one…I know where my vote is!
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You forgot the really good ones that get thrown around at random. Such as how we understand the Eucharist. According to one group the words in John Chapter six refer to Scripture and have nothing to do with the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ.

Then there are those that because we are Catholic we are idol worshippers and doomed to hell because of our pagan practices.

It is amazing that some of them can say such things. To give a recent example, I am on another list and there was a poster who would only write what amounted to a mini sermon telling us that we were all sinful people. This person had a common list of sins. I got the feeling he was a woman hater because he claimed that a woman who accepted alimony was being deceitful and stealing money. He also said that one was not allowed to shop on a Sunday, not even to have a cup of coffee with a friend. Hee Hee, well I was condemned to hell for protesting his statements.

Without going into all of the details of the condemnations and the posts that went back and forth, I can tell you that it ended up as 4 Catholics + 4 Protestants (on the one side) against Mr. Puritan. What I gained out of the confrontation was the fact that the Catholics and Protestants were able to come together and actually understand each other’s point of view about salvation.

What was interesting is that the Puritan claimed that the Catholic Church were doing the same as the Pharisees, yet he was the one who was insisting upon second generation laws.

All of us tried to point him in the direction of God’s love and mercy, but he saw God as a God of wrath.

I found this whole idea to be very strange, yet what occurred was actually a distortion of the theories of Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, John Calvin and various Puritan preachers. His emphasis upon obeying laws indicated that he was clearly out of step with the Church (Catholics and Protestants) but he could not see where he was going wrong.

Even though he was wrong, and he would not listen when I told him that there are only two commandments (1) Love God and (2) love your neighbour ; and that all of our actions are dependent upon both of these commands, he just would not listen. He also remained silent upon issues such as road rage and selfishly taking a designated car parking spot.

MaggieOH
 
I’m Catholic and my job hired a new guy who is fundamentalist. When we first met, we didn’t really know of each others religious differences. We spoke about God in passing about how good He is, His blessings, going to Church, etc. He “quizzed” me on some Scripture, and I apparently passed his little “test” so he was sure I was saved. Then a couple of weeks later he asked me what Church I went to. When I told him St. Luke the Evangelist, he paused and asked in a very suprised tone, “Is that Catholic?”. Of course I (with a huge smile on my face) replied “Why yes it is”.
To make a long story short he’s been “witnessing” to me ever since. He told some of my coworkers that I passed his test, but he still wasn’t sure of me. This web site has been extremely helpful in allowing me to get alot of points across that to this day he still hasn’t been able to argue.
The funny thing is when he asked me about “graven images” in my Church, I asked him if they had crosses in his church. He replied yes, and I asked him what the difference was between Catholic Churches having statues and his Church having crosses which serve the same purpose he said “Let me ask my pastor about that”. His pastor said that I was right and they needed to go ahead and remove the crosses from their church.
Now that to me is sad!
 
Church Militant:
For God’s sake don’t pay any attention to John 6, 1st Cor 10:16, & 11:23-29 or any of the last supper passages… (like Matt 26:26-28, Mark 14:22-24, Luke 22:17-20 and 24:30-35)

Oh yeah…and read around Matthew 16:13-19, John 20:24 & 25,
Luke 22:31-32, and John 21:15-17 because you might just see the NT basis for the things that the Catholics believe.

Then ignore passages like James 5:13-16 because it fits into the context of John 20:19-23 and 2nd Corinthians 5:17-20.

Please feel free to pick any one set of topical verses and have at it until you feel like you’ve exhausted that topic then pick up another or spin off your own threads.

Remember what was said of the early Christians by those who persecuted them: “See how these christains love one another.”

Pax vobiscum,
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Hey Michael, I think you might enjoy this site 😃
catholicoutlook.com/rpv.php
MT 10:33 is one of my favorites
 
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teresas1979:
It’s precisely these comments that are driving people away from the Catholic Church. I have had many personal issues with Catholicism and whenever I highlight them to a Catholic in person, online or whatever (including Bishops, Priests, Deacons) this is the kind of attitude I face. I am STILL a Catholic, merely questioning Catholicism and the more badly I am treated (and the above is a weak example) the more I will find there is “no home in Rome”
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I can’t help respond with something that my priest showed me.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Philippians 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven; from which also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and has given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
 
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Rachel:
I’m Catholic and my job hired a new guy who is fundamentalist. When we first met, we didn’t really know of each others religious differences. We spoke about God in passing about how good He is, His blessings, going to Church, etc. He “quizzed” me on some Scripture, and I apparently passed his little “test” so he was sure I was saved. Then a couple of weeks later he asked me what Church I went to. When I told him St. Luke the Evangelist, he paused and asked in a very suprised tone, “Is that Catholic?”. Of course I (with a huge smile on my face) replied “Why yes it is”.
To make a long story short he’s been “witnessing” to me ever since. He told some of my coworkers that I passed his test, but he still wasn’t sure of me. This web site has been extremely helpful in allowing me to get alot of points across that to this day he still hasn’t been able to argue.
The funny thing is when he asked me about “graven images” in my Church, I asked him if they had crosses in his church. He replied yes, and I asked him what the difference was between Catholic Churches having statues and his Church having crosses which serve the same purpose he said “Let me ask my pastor about that”. His pastor said that I was right and they needed to go ahead and remove the crosses from their church.
Now that to me is sad!
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You’re right…that IS sad, especially since that iconoclasm bit 'em in the backside. I wonder what would happen if you showed him that Iconoclasm is the result of Islamic influences in the 9th century. (Beginning Apologetics # 1 deals with this very question on page 34) catholicapologetics.com/)
Since it has nothing to do with Christianity and is the result of non-Christian influences, maybe they’ll relent or repent and get it right?
Here’s the article on New Advent from the Catholic Encyclopedia:
newadvent.org/cathen/07620a.htm Maybe if you were to print it and take it to him he’d get the message better. When he sees the association with Islam he will probably freak. LOL:eek:

Pax vobiscum
 
If ALL you get out of JESUS and his Gospels is the propesity to be ,“RIGHT/righteous,” in the face of others and their actions, I feel SO SORRY for you…

A righteous God could just obliterate his opponents without repercussions.

There COULD BE SIMPLY NO LOVE or CONCERN for the lost, or alternative points of views…

And JESUS could have taken this course to the Nth variable possibility and said the hell with the SINNING LOST…

JN 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own. I have power to lay it down, and power to take it up again. This command I have received from my Father."
 
Thank you for showing be that article on Iconoclasm , I think I may have to bring that to his attention. What bothers me the most about him is that every article I have given him he has taken and not a word of our debate on every subject that we have spoken about has been brought up again. I grew up Baptist so I am prepared for alot of the questions that he tries to thow at me because I used them myself at one time. But until I became serious and started studying the Catholic faith I never realized the out right misconceptions that these people have. And, of course, I ended up converting to Catholicism. It’s crazy to me that instead of admitting that the Catholic Church is actually justified in having these images in their Churches, they would rather remove the very symbol of the foundation of their faith out of theirs.
It boggles my mind that they are so opposed to Catholic belief that they would go to such an extent just to try to prove us wrong.
 
Reformed Rob:
If a person were to try to work through all the difficulties, it would take the better part of a lifetime just devoted to that. But the Eucharist, the testimony of the Spirit in Scriptures and in the Church, well… It’s powerful!

!
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Sorry, I had to let it be about you a little bit!

Converting to Catholocism is just the beginning, and you will grow in understanding and faith and in your relationship with Christ for the rest of your life . Christ gave the Sacraments to all of His children, so that we can touch, taste and see the goodness of the Lord, what an amazing gift of perfect love that God become man to suffer and die, and would give himself to us under the humble appearance of bread! The thought that my protestant brothers and sisters who love Christ so much, are unable to receive the sacraments which Christ clearly gives to us, is painful. The Sacraments are such an amazingly beautiful gift, that God would touch us in our material world with his Grace in the physical nature of the sacraments. When you get down to it, sure, Christ can be found wherever we are gathered in His name, but why not have the closest relationship possible with Him by doing it* exactly* the way He taught us through the Apostles. It can all be found in Scripture, we just need to know where to look for it, and Apostolic Tradition, unchanged from the time of Christ, guides us.

Thank you, JESUS CHRIST, AMEN!

Love, Peace Be With You
 
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mj330:
Hello Church Militant,

I was considering reconciliation to the church awhile ago, but never did. I am still in the process of studying, although I believe I know what the truth is. I hope that I did not miss the blessings of being part of the true church (almost 18 years).
Mike
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It’s never too late, even the lukewarm Catholic can miss the blessings of being a part of the true church if they are not willing to be open and receive them. Jesus will welcome you right back, you are blessed to be called back. All that time of questioning will lead you home. Even a Catholic who has never left the church but never bothered to answer their own doubts or learn their faith can miss out on blessings and perhaps not realize it. When I was a child I had a bad experience with my first reconciliation and from that point on, felt uncomfortable about going. When I was in college I questioned everything about the Church and my theology/philosophy/religion classes made me question even more. It wasnt’ until I was about 22 that I wanted to answer all those accusations and questions from protestant friends that I studied it for myself which resulted in an adult conversion. I went for nearly 10 years without going to reconciliation, nearly all of my 20s although I continued to go to Mass every week and participated in all the other sacraments, I as afraid to go to confession, and was influenced by protestant concepts that it was unnecessary for a “priest to forgive my sins” When I finally realized how important it was to go, I felt a strong urging from the Holy Spirit. I was so nervous but it was awesome to finally realize what a grace- filled sacrament it is, and how crucial for living the life God wants for us. Please, it’s never too late, just answer the call. Don’t worry about what you have perhaps missed, just don’t miss another minute. As St. Peter said, Lord where else shall we go, you have the words of eternal life. The sacraments are right there for you, receive them.
 
Am I the only one who feels like the non-Catholic churches that we were part of sort of “read around” or don’t touch on passages of the Bible that pretty clearly show that Catholic belief and practice are correct?

It’s like these passages just fall off the pages…
UNLESS the pastor decides that he’s just GOTTA speak out against those (idol worshipping, earn-their-salvation-by-works, no assurance of salvation, the-pope-is-the-antichrist, traditions of men doctrine-following, added books to their Bible, immoral, children of the whore of Babylon) Catholics. THEN they roll 'em out just long enough to quote the references and then present their own take on the passages and say we’re wrong and make that altar call and get all the poor misguided Catholics down here so they can get saved…

Oh…and BTW…we are NEVER supposed to take offense or issue with them about ANY of this because that just shows how terribly decieved we are and just how un-Christian we are because we dare to disagree and then offer valid scriptural, historical, and authoritative answers to any of that. And if we DO…oH LORD! :eek:

http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/AN878.gif
 
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