As I stated I have informed my conscience. But when it comes to voting I can think for myself and don’t need my vote to be controlled. I thank you for the judgment of the state of my conscience though. And God bless you along your faith journey, in your voting discernment, and peace.
In political threads whenever a catholic starts talking about primacy of conscience you know two things.
Sorry, no peace and hugs while the unborn continue to get slaughtered.We live in a democracy of plural faith beliefs and views on all sorts of issues.
And yet, you quote the gospel of Matthew to justify why you vote for Democrats who vote for liberal domestic programs. This is in opposition to your saying that we live in a “plural democracy of many beliefs” and that we shouldn’t impose our morality on others. You are doing exactly that.
As with many issues, on the single issue you refer to, reasonable and thinking people can and do have differing views when weighing the rights of the unborn with the rights of women.
Do you think its reasonable to allow babies’ heads to be crushed by a forceps or sucked out of the womb by a vaccuum? Your party does.
And I just think the Church should return to a greater emphasis on many of the issues Christ actually specifically spoke about and not emphasize a single issue to the degree She does and on a word not even found in Scripture.
So its about what you think the Church should emphasize? The Church clearly states the priority of the sanctity of life as the foremost issue. Yet you disagree with the Church. I appreciate your honesty - it reveals a lot.
Thereby showing that indeed despite perhaps protests they are not single issue voters, that abortion in the end is the single issue on which many Catholics appear to vote.
No CMatt, and I would appreciate it if you did not distort or misrepresent what we are saying. Abortion is not the only issue. However, it is the most important issue. Let me frame it this way: Which is more important, seeing that kids get frozen pizza during the summer school or that we quit crushing the skulls of babies’ skulls? You seem to prefer the former.
And that’s fine.
No, its not fine for the unborn.
It’s everyone’s right in America to vote as they see fit. And it’s my right too as a Catholic (I’ll trust I don’t also again at this time have to explain who the Church counts Catholic), but that it’s my right living in this attempt at democracy in a country we call America, to think for myself, inform my conscience, but weigh many issues, as a religious voter to pray over them, often repeatedly pray over them, and then in the privacy of my voting booth vote my conscience. The Church Herself states in the catechism that to not follow our consciences is to condemn ourselves.
YOur conscience is misinformed. You are wrong.
Ishii, I understand your view and I truly hope this again helps my friend in understanding another view. Though I of course am under no pretences of us being in agreement on this issue. So in the end we may merely have to agree to disagree. God bless and all the best. And of course peace. :hug1:
Well actually no, one does not know about everyone’s degree of being catechized, nor whether they always vote Democratic, and especially one does not know another’s heart and conscience and who gets put into hell. Nevertheless God bless on your journey of faith. Peace.
As you wish Ishii. But at least I can find directly mentioned in Scripture words such as the poor, peacemakers, and the sick whom we are told to care for. Issues many Christians, including some Catholics, and persons of various faiths, all as religious voters, emphasize in our voting. Many believe not only individuals and the Church and various private faith-based institutions but also govt can play a role. And believe govt has a role in picking up the slack. But thank you too for judging my conscience near the end of your post.Of the 2 major political parties in the US, are you and others saying Catholic Democrats who are unrepentent of their secular election voting decisions go to hell and otherwise only Catholic Republican Party voters preside in heaven? Do you believe the Church is home only to the latter voter?
i don’t think so but you should never vote for someone who is very clearly anti life sometimes the GOP is as well and sometimes the dems are more catholic then the GOP counter parts
Deciphering who is very clearly anti life is part of the problem as I see it because as you know I see a magnitude of life issues. I do hope Jesus does not welcome only Republican voters. But in any case God bless you and peace if you don’t mind me offering it to you.
yes it is difficult this is why I think we should make a bigger push to have more candidates who see eye to eye with the church on next to all the issues.
That there are a plurality of views on a given moral issue is irrelevant to the rightness or wrongness of any position in such an issue. Just because there were a plurality of views in Nazi Germany about what to do with the Jews does not mean that those who vocally opposed the treatment of Jews should have been expected to simply tolerate the exterminationist anti-Semitism of the ruling regime. One may even note that the Nazi party had many other successful policies. They greatly reduced unemployment, they improved the standard of living, heightened national solidarity, improved public health; but today most would agree that Nazi policy toward the Jews alone would justify repudiating the totality of the Nazi party platform.
I know nothing whatsoever about the state of your conscience and said nothing about it. No one who truly knows what the Church teaches could possibly vote pro-abortion on the pretext that other issues are as important when the Church has clearly stated otherwise. I’m not in the voting booth with you and know nothing about your voting record nor do I care to know. I’m am only informing you and others, if you need informing (which is appears you do from the things you’ve written) of the truth about these things. If the truth hits home, that’s perfectly fine (again not saying you need to have it hit home, that’s not for me to decide).
I agree the Nazi comparison is hyperbole and probably overused.
True you may know nothing whatsoever about the state of my conscience nor my heart. But nevertheless here’s what you said in reply to me. “If we ignore Church teaching we are setting ourselves above Christ and his Church and that’s not the action of a well-formed conscience but of one formed by the opinions of the world.” Then now you add I apparently need to be informed of truth. So if I mistakenly read your words as saying I am setting myself above Christ, then pardon me. As to the rest, we’re merely going in circles. That is why I pray as a Church and a society that after 40 yrs we can move on. God bless you on your walk of faith. Peace.
Ishii
CMatt, I might not have worded my response in the best way, with regard to your conscience. If I offended you I am sorry. The Diocese of Albany put out a useful guide called “voting with a Catholic conscience”. Here are some excerpts:
I wish Catholics in America would take into account Catholic moral teaching when considering who to vote for. If Catholics in America woke up, then we’d easily overturn Roe V. Wade.
Ishii, I believe it is killing to electrocute, lethally inject, or to kill a living, breathing, born with a soul human being by firing squad too.
However I know plenty of Catholics who hold to what is considered the more politically conservative view on the death penalty and certainly advocate for greater use of the death penalty than the “very rare, if not practically non-existent” cases as taught in CCC 2267.I am not persuaded by your first assertion. The Democrats had what they needed to pass total socialized healthcare, they just didn’t. The Republicans couldn’t have stopped them. It isn’t a matter of a “big Democrat tent”. Lots of them walked the plank knowing they were walking it, and they have been in nearly perfect lockstep on most things, whether the public favored them or not. Some in the Senate, it appears, probably feared voter wrath with the house socialized medicine bill, just as a lot of house members failed to do. So, the Democrats who had to run statewide (Senate) “compromised” with the Democrats who didn’t (house).
That’s because abortion is an intrinsic evil whereas capital punishment isn’t. The CCC statement is totally based on the statement of JPII, but not on traditional Catholic doctrine. I am personally opposed to Capital punishment solely because of JPII’s statement, but nothing else, because there is nothing else to base it on. Capital punishment is a matter of prudential judgment, upon which it is permissible to disagree. Abortion is not a matter of prudential judgment.