Things women do that disappoint their boyfriend

[DarkLight]

I take it you’ve never been with a woman who unleashed her temper on you in public and it got so bad you had someone coming up to you and telling you “to get her under control”. It is dang near impossible for the target to shake it off. I know I couldn’t. Ok, that is exceptional, not an everyday occurrence, but I have seen it happen, such women do exist and I pray that I don’t marry one of them.

My parents practiced public and private faces. I thought it was hypocritical growing up, but later I came to understand it, embrace it and model it in my own relationships. I want my disagreements and arguments in private, not in public. I’ve come to understand over the years that civility in public is a good thing while at the same time I understand it means that things are not necessarily going well for people we know casually. That unless one knows a couple very well, it’s best not to assume anything.

I think there’s a lot of variation around this subject that doesn’t always get expressed very well in text.

• Unleashing your temper one someone else just shouldn’t happen. Public, private, whatever. Being in private isn’t an excuse to be unkind.
• Private matters should be kept private. If you need to correct someone on a serious matter, do it in private so as to avoid embarrassment or involving others where they don’t belong.
• At the same time, minor disagreements shouldn’t be an issue. A guy isn’t going to die if his wife remembers the name of a movie character better than he does or something. This even goes for being better than him at a traditionally masculine skill (I’m a lot better at math than a lot of guys I know).

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Why don’t you enlighten us further on what it means for a husband to live his wife as “Christ loved the Church”?

Well, St. John Chrysotom had this to say in 20th Homily on Ephesians. He specifically points out that the husband - wife relationship is NOT a master - slave relationship:

newadvent.org/fathers/230120.htm

“Husbands,” says he, “love your wives, even as Christ also loved the Church.”

You have seen the measure of obedience, hear also the measure of love. Would you have your wife obedient unto you, as the Church is to Christ? Take then yourself the same provident care for her, as Christ takes for the Church. Yea, even if it shall be needful for you to give your life for her, yea, and to be cut into pieces ten thousand times, yea, and to endure and undergo any suffering whatever—refuse it not.

Though you should undergo all this, yet will you not, no, not even then, have done anything like Christ. For thou indeed art doing it for one to whom you are already knit; but He for one who turned her back on Him and hated Him. In the same way then as He laid at His feet her who turned her back on Him, who hated, and spurned, and disdained Him, not by menaces, nor by violence, nor by terror, nor by anything else of the kind, but by his unwearied affection; so also do thou behave yourself toward your wife.

Yea, though thou see her looking down upon you, and disdaining, and scorning you, yet by your great thoughtfulness for her, by affection, by kindness, you will be able to lay her at your feet. For there is nothing more powerful to sway than these bonds, and especially for husband and wife. A servant, indeed, one will be able, perhaps, to bind down by fear; nay not even him, for he will soon start away and be gone. But the partner of one’s life, the mother of one’s children, the foundation of one’s every joy, one ought never to chain down by fear and menaces, but with love and good temper.

For what sort of union is that, where the wife trembles at her husband? And what sort of pleasure will the husband himself enjoy, if he dwells with his wife as with a slave, and not as with a free-woman? Yea, though you should suffer anything on her account, do not upbraid her; for neither did Christ do this.

He also seems to actually believe the whole “mutual submission” idea. For after discussing how a husband should “fulfill your own duty” even if the wife doesn’t, he calls this an example of “submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of Christ.” Not only the wife submitting to the husband.

“But what,” one may say, “if a wife reverence me not?” Never mind, you are to love, fulfill your own duty. For though that which is due from others may not follow, we ought of course to do our duty. This is an example of what I mean. He says, “submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of Christ.” And what then if another submit not himself? Still obey thou the law of God. Just so, I say, is it also here.

Let the wife at least, though she be not loved, still reverence notwithstanding, that nothing may lie at her door; and let the husband, though his wife reverence him not, still show her love notwithstanding, that he himself be not wanting in any point. For each has received his own.

 

[Xantippe]

I take it you’ve never been with a woman who unleashed her temper on you in public and it got so bad you had someone coming up to you and telling you “to get her under control”. It is dang near impossible for the target to shake it off. I know I couldn’t. Ok, that is exceptional, not an everyday occurrence, but I have seen it happen, such women do exist and I pray that I don’t marry one of them.

My parents practiced public and private faces. I thought it was hypocritical growing up, but later I came to understand it, embrace it and model it in my own relationships. I want my disagreements and arguments in private, not in public. I’ve come to understand over the years that civility in public is a good thing while at the same time I understand it means that things are not necessarily going well for people we know casually. That unless one knows a couple very well, it’s best not to assume anything.

But, on the other hand, any argument that kids are around to hear is public.

In fact, I’d argue that kids are the most important audience to consider.

But, yeah, I’d agree about not necessarily knowing if people are doing well. In fact, some of the people with the most perfect facade are the most troubled.

 

[Xantippe]

I think there’s a lot of variation around this subject that doesn’t always get expressed very well in text.

• Unleashing your temper one someone else just shouldn’t happen. Public, private, whatever. Being in private isn’t an excuse to be unkind.
• Private matters should be kept private. If you need to correct someone on a serious matter, do it in private so as to avoid embarrassment or involving others where they don’t belong.
• At the same time, minor disagreements shouldn’t be an issue. A guy isn’t going to die if his wife remembers the name of a movie character better than he does or something. This even goes for being better than him at a traditionally masculine skill (I’m a lot better at math than a lot of guys I know).

That’s a nice summary.

My husband is a former mathematician–seriously, he’s published nearly two dozen original math papers. However, I know the times tables better than he does and am better at calculating timetables. Also, he can space out and not notice traffic lights or remember which lane he needs to be in. Thankfully, I am able to help him with this stuff without crushing his masculinity. He’s a smart guy, I know he’s a smart guy, he knows he’s a smart guy, and he knows I know he’s a smart guy–it’s not a big deal.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

But, on the other hand, any argument that kids are around to hear is public.

In fact, I’d argue that kids are the most important audience to consider.

But, yeah, I’d agree about not necessarily knowing if people are doing well. In fact, some of the people with the most perfect facade are the most troubled.

I can tell you that my parents’ worst fights did not take place in front of us, but we knew they happened. On the other hand, it was good in the long run for them to have disagreements and arguments in front of us because that told us not to expect everything to be sweetness and light in a marriage. I can’t imagine what that would have been like if my parents hid every last argument away from us and then I found myself in an argument with a girlfriend. I wouldn’t have any model from my parents on how to handle that. Or how not to handle it, as the case may be. You got a primer on how not to do it. Which if taken the right way can be just as valuable.

 

[Xantippe]

I can tell you that my parents’ worst fights did not take place in front of us, but we knew they happened. On the other hand, it was good in the long run for them to have disagreements and arguments in front of us because that told us not to expect everything to be sweetness and light in a marriage. I can’t imagine what that would have been like if my parents hid every last argument away from us and then I found myself in an argument with a girlfriend. I wouldn’t have any model from my parents on how to handle that. Or how not to handle it, as the case may be. You got a primer on how not to do it. Which if taken the right way can be just as valuable.

My parents were very loud at home when arguing (often after kid bedtime, but very audibly)–there was a lot of screaming.

It was always money, I believe–as there never was enough of it when we were little. (Having 2-3 kids, spotty income and no health insurance will do that.)

I grew up believing that my dad was always right and my mom was always wrong. I had absolutely no idea until relatively recently that it was possible to have a disagreement or argument without there being screaming–I grew up believing that when you’re in the right, you get to yell, and my dad was always right.

So, that was an extremely negative example for me that I am only just now recovering from. It was unfortunately very formative. It’s taken me a long time to work out that it’s actually more effective to very briefly, clearly and factually explain a disagreement.

(By the way, I really have to recommend the book How Not to Hate Your Husband After Kids to anybody of either sex who is a yeller, suspects they might be a yeller, or who grew up around yellers.)

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

My parents were very loud at home when arguing (often after kid bedtime, but very audibly)–there was a lot of screaming.

It was always money, I believe–as there never was enough of it when we were little. (Having 2-3 kids, spotty income and no health insurance will do that.)

I grew up believing that my dad was always right and my mom was always wrong. I had absolutely no idea until relatively recently that it was possible to have a disagreement or argument without there being screaming–I grew up believing that when you’re in the right, you get to yell, and my dad was always right.

So, that was an extremely negative example for me that I am only just now recovering from. It was unfortunately very formative. It’s taken me a long time to work out that it’s actually more effective to very briefly, clearly and factually explain a disagreement.

(By the way, I really have to recommend the book How Not to Hate Your Husband After Kids to anybody of either sex who is a yeller, suspects they might be a yeller, or who grew up around yellers.)

One of my lessons in dating and having some relationships so far is how to suss out the yellers and filter them out. I’m not a yeller and while I don’t expect perfection, I would strongly prefer not to be married to one.

 

[AdamP88]

And in what context did I say that and what caveat in parenthesis did I add after for even further clarification?

Classic deflection, whenever a person brings up wifely submission the immediate reactions are usually to bring up abuse in an attempt to poison the well and regain ground without having to actually argue the point. No reasonable reading of my comment could possibly place me in the position of defending physical or “emotional” abuse. But since I didn’t add seventeen thousand caveats and beg apologies I left myself open to the straw-man.

So I’ll ask you: does the husband have the duty to love his wife as “Christ loves the Church” or is that negotiable too?

Actually even without being overtly abusive there could still be other forms of abuse going on that the wife might have to discern. Cheating, pornography use, subtle manipulation…

Yes the husband has a duty to love the wife. However the wife also has the duty to love the husband. Jesus did say “love one another as I have loved you”. He also said; “let the first among you be last, and the last, first.” And also “Do not let it be among you as it is with the pagans, where the leaders lord it over their subjects.”

I often find it a wonder that so many men on this forum talk about “wifely submission” but don’t think of the other commands that Jesus gave. If, as you say, the husband is the head of the family, then, as per Jesus’ words, he should be the servant of the family. There really is too much of this nonsense about submissive wives. If you want to find a wife who believes that then go crazy, but the essence of Christian Marriage since the beginning was about a man and a woman doing life together. If you’re married you won’t have much time to worry about whether your wife is submissive enough.

 

[DarkLight]

Actually even without being overtly abusive there could still be other forms of abuse going on that the wife might have to discern. Cheating, pornography use, subtle manipulation…

This is, I think, particularly a possibility when the wife stays at home and doesn’t earn an income. There are very many possibilities with financial manipulation at home. I have heard stories of women complaining that they are given an allowance, especially one insufficient for the needs to be met. Or that the husband grills them on every purchase, even necessary ones, and even when the family is in no financial hardship.

 

[Xantippe]

This is, I think, particularly a possibility when the wife stays at home and doesn’t earn an income. There are very many possibilities with financial manipulation at home. I have heard stories of women complaining that they are given an allowance, especially one insufficient for the needs to be met. Or that the husband grills them on every purchase, even necessary ones, and even when the family is in no financial hardship.

I think that happens even when the husband isn’t especially ogre-ish.

After we had been doing Dave Ramsey for some years, for example, my husband needed to learn to back off if something was in the budget numbers that we’d previously agreed on.

When he bugged me about some tiny purchase it made me feel 4 inches tall and gave me memories of all my parents’ huge money fights. That was really terrible since he does make a good income and we had been doing Dave Ramsey for years at that point.

(He very rarely does that now, thank goodness.)

 

[Xantippe]

One of my lessons in dating and having some relationships so far is how to suss out the yellers and filter them out. I’m not a yeller and while I don’t expect perfection, I would strongly prefer not to be married to one.

And you’d also like a spirited, energetic gal with a strong libido.

I have some bad news about that.

 

[punisherthunder]

• Mention men of a past relationship
• Question his ability to repair/build certain home projects
• Nitpick if he doesn’t feel like going out (“nothing good can happen when you go out”)
• Mislead to impress. (Wife told me she was the next Nigella Lawson, but in reality she cannot boil even water).
• Not try to enjoy a similar activity. I was riveted by the Presidential debates (all of them) and my wife refused to watch even one with me. I told her that I give her shows a chance, why not view the candidates and see who she thinks would be a better President? In fact, tell me how you view them? She refused on all levels. I will give her some credit as she
  now enjoys cigars with me, so she has indulged me in that hobby/activity.
• Lose their physique. Prior to marriage she was flawless, then she got out of shape and harped that it was somehow my fault. Currently she has a fitness plan I have put her on and it is reaping dividends. I know I may get some heat for putting her on a diet/fitness plan, but I don’t want to hear any nonsense that “big” is beautiful or healthy. No it is not, any lab result will tell you that.

 

[alphawoman]

A woman can’t make a man feel emasculated; emasculation comes from the man’s own self-evaluation.

That being said, partners (irrespective of gender) can treat each other poorly, disrespectfully, and in ways that are hurtful. Over time, damaging communications and interactions can take a toll.

I don’t think I’m going to come up with anything particularly original. To me, things that would disappoint any partner would include the usual suspects:

• Dishonesty
• Callousness
• Disloyalty
• Lack of affection
• Infidelity
• Selfishness
• Large changes in personality or values contrary to those originally espoused at the time the relationship began
• Abusive behaviour (psychological, financial, emotional, physical, or otherwise)
• Irresponsibility

My view is that intimate relationships, by and large, aren’t particularly distinct from other types of relationships in what constitutes a disappointment. Humans are biologically wired for deep, trusting, fulfilling, mutual relationships. Where those basic values are violated, the relationship is hurt. Intimate relationships just amplify the effect because of the relative importance of those relationships in our lives.

 

[alphawoman]

• Lose their physique. Prior to marriage she was flawless, then she got out of shape and harped that it was somehow my fault. Currently she has a fitness plan I have put her on and it is reaping dividends. I know I may get some heat for putting her on a diet/fitness plan, but I don’t want to hear any nonsense that “big” is beautiful or healthy. No it is not, any lab result will tell you that.

Amen to that! The deal was the package at marriage plus or minus the standard effects of aging. “For better or worse” isn’t a condemnation, or a promise of, “you’ve had better, brace yourself for worse”.

 

[alphawoman]

Actually even without being overtly abusive there could still be other forms of abuse going on that the wife might have to discern. Cheating, pornography use, subtle manipulation…

Yes the husband has a duty to love the wife. However the wife also has the duty to love the husband. Jesus did say “love one another as I have loved you”. He also said; “let the first among you be last, and the last, first.” And also “Do not let it be among you as it is with the pagans, where the leaders lord it over their subjects.”

I often find it a wonder that so many men on this forum talk about “wifely submission” but don’t think of the other commands that Jesus gave. If, as you say, the husband is the head of the family, then, as per Jesus’ words, he should be the servant of the family. There really is too much of this nonsense about submissive wives. If you want to find a wife who believes that then go crazy, but the essence of Christian Marriage since the beginning was about a man and a woman doing life together. If you’re married you won’t have much time to worry about whether your wife is submissive enough.

I had to flag this as a tremendously sensible post. Thanks AdamPeter for posting.

 

[alphawoman]

And you’d also like a spirited, energetic gal with a strong libido.

I have some bad news about that.

We might be a minority, but we exist! It’s just hard to filter out the cretins who only value that one thing, so we have to play our cards subtly and strategically.

And, not to put too fine a point on it, but most women have the potential for much higher libidos than currently expressed when matched with a genuine partner (of the sort AdamPeter describes). Part of genuine partnership is a two-way interest in supporting mutually pleasurable coupled interactions. That means attempting to match each other’s needs in terms of both mechanical preferences and frequency. In the absence of such partnership, where previous performances have been disappointing or one-sided, it’s understandable that one half of the couple would lose interest.

My sense from talking to many married female friends of mine is that a lot of men are really poor performers in bed, and the women withdraw in disgust or disappointment. (And, from talking to married male friends, so are many women, and the guys are sadly stuck taking what they can get after trying to set things right again.) It doesn’t have to be that way!

So add that to my list of possible disappointments under the “not as advertised” theme.

/end soapbox

(Nice to see you, Xantippe!)

 

[alphawoman]

That’s a nice summary.

My husband is a former mathematician–seriously, he’s published nearly two dozen original math papers. However, I know the times tables better than he does and am better at calculating timetables. Also, he can space out and not notice traffic lights or remember which lane he needs to be in. Thankfully, I am able to help him with this stuff without crushing his masculinity. He’s a smart guy, I know he’s a smart guy, he knows he’s a smart guy, and he knows I know he’s a smart guy–it’s not a big deal.

Gotta love interactive reasoning. You two sound like a great pair.

 

[alphawoman]

I’ve never been emasculated by a woman disagreeing with me in public.

Tell me, does it hurt much?

After the emasculation, Is one expected to learn to cook and knit? I’ve never knitted before. I hope it’s not hard to learn how.

My wife didn’t vote for Trump. Am I in a state of mortal sin for not having enough command of her to compel her to vote for him? Whose sin is worse? Mine or hers? Can I ever regain leadership over her or is it lost forever?

Can it be cured by taking one of those red pills?

LOL! Love this!

 

[punisherthunder]

Amen to that! The deal was the package at marriage plus or minus the standard effects of aging. “For better or worse” isn’t a condemnation, or a promise of, “you’ve had better, brace yourself for worse”.

It’s not so much aging I’d say as it is this mantra that being overweight as a female is “healthy and acceptable”. Or that she is embracing her “femininity”. That is an outright lie. There are terrible amounts of this propaganda being shouted at women every day through innumerable social media outlets.

Overweight women today think they are above consequences. It is somehow “my fault” that they feel insecure about their weight to the point that they feel the need to just overindulge in everything as a way to cope.

I won’t divulge much about my wife’s appearance here over the years, but she had indeed let herself go to almost a pre-diabetic level. This is inexcusable, not to mention potentially costly as the cost for insulin is through the roof. I simply placed her on a diet in which she didn’t feel deprived an exercise routine that isn’t mind-numbingly intense.

Just the other day we were in Banana Republic and she didn’t think she could fit into anything. A size 10 women’s pants were loose, and she will now require a size 8. She is determined to be a size 2 so we will see how close we get. She has gotten blonde hair extensions and has a new confidence about herself. She is enjoy more clothes and having more energy for things.

But to say that being overweight is “healthy” or “freeing” in some way…well that’s an outright lie.

 

[Xantippe]

• Question his ability to repair/build certain home projects

It’s a lot easier to take things apart than it is to put them back together.

Also, it’s kind of terrible to have to live long term with an unfinished project at home, especially with little kids around.