Things women do that disappoint their boyfriend

[Xantippe]

We might be a minority, but we exist! It’s just hard to filter out the cretins who only value that one thing, so we have to play our cards subtly and strategically.

And, not to put too fine a point on it, but most women have the potential for much higher libidos than currently expressed when matched with a genuine partner (of the sort AdamPeter describes). Part of genuine partnership is a two-way interest in supporting mutually pleasurable coupled interactions. That means attempting to match each other’s needs in terms of both mechanical preferences and frequency. In the absence of such partnership, where previous performances have been disappointing or one-sided, it’s understandable that one half of the couple would lose interest.

My sense from talking to many married female friends of mine is that a lot of men are really poor performers in bed, and the women withdraw in disgust or disappointment. (And, from talking to married male friends, so are many women, and the guys are sadly stuck taking what they can get after trying to set things right again.) It doesn’t have to be that way!

So add that to my list of possible disappointments under the “not as advertised” theme.

/end soapbox

(Nice to see you, Xantippe!)

Nice to see you!

 

[Xantippe]

Gotta love interactive reasoning. You two sound like a great pair.

Thank you!

Yes, I feel like much of the benefit of marriage is in being able to mobilize each other’s strengths for the benefit of the family.

 

[alphawoman]

It’s not so much aging I’d say as it is this mantra that being overweight as a female is “healthy and acceptable”. Or that she is embracing her “femininity”. That is an outright lie. There are terrible amounts of this propaganda being shouted at women every day through innumerable social media outlets.

…

But to say that being overweight is “healthy” or “freeing” in some way…well that’s an outright lie.

It’s not feminine to be overweight, just as it’s not masculine to be overweight. It’s simply unhealthy.

Unfortunately, medical doctors now seem more concerned about not causing emotional distress in patients by identifying unhealthy behaviours that can lead to even unhealthier outcomes. The conversation needs to be steered back to quality of life and health. Those messages can be delivered tactfully. These are adults who, presumably, would prefer to optimize their health and feel (and look) attractive as a pleasant by-product.

 

[alphawoman]

Nice to see you!

Likewise! I’ve been away for an extended hiatus.

 

[pensmama87]

It’s not feminine to be overweight, just as it’s not masculine to be overweight. It’s simply unhealthy.

Unfortunately, medical doctors now seem more concerned about not causing emotional distress in patients by identifying unhealthy behaviours that can lead to even unhealthier outcomes. The conversation needs to be steered back to quality of life and health. Those messages can be delivered tactfully. These are adults who, presumably, would prefer to optimize their health and feel (and look) attractive as a pleasant by-product.

I really think this is the best way to handle it. The best numbers to focus on may come from blood work, a pressure cuff, etc, and not a clothing size or scale. Not that weight can’t give you a general idea, and I’m not saying that being overweight is good. But I cringe to hear things like “going for a size 2.” For some women, that would be good based on height,bone structure, etc. But at my lightest adult weight I wore a 6-8 and I looked hollow. I don’t aspire to that anymore. Now I’m a little larger but it “wears well,” and I’m eating well and get regular exercise. My blood work etc. all looks great!

I would feel very insulted if my husband told me he was going to “put me on a diet,” as if I were a child. He does things that I don’t think are good for him, but all I can do is lovingly suggest and offer help if he wants it. We both have free will, after all.

 

[punisherthunder]

It’s not feminine to be overweight, just as it’s not masculine to be overweight. It’s simply unhealthy.

Unfortunately, medical doctors now seem more concerned about not causing emotional distress in patients by identifying unhealthy behaviours that can lead to even unhealthier outcomes. The conversation needs to be steered back to quality of life and health. Those messages can be delivered tactfully. These are adults who, presumably, would prefer to optimize their health and feel (and look) attractive as a pleasant by-product.

Exactly. We are not fitness freaks, but I will say that these people who are overweight are not being tested medically. It only takes one time, to have a shocking lab result to get blasted back into reality.

As a husband, I try my best to help see that my wife is in good physical health. She is enjoying her ever changing physique and has a newfound zest for wearing smaller sized clothing.

 

[Xantippe]

I really think this is the best way to handle it. The best numbers to focus on may come from blood work, a pressure cuff, etc, and not a clothing size or scale. Not that weight can’t give you a general idea, and I’m not saying that being overweight is good. But I cringe to hear things like “going for a size 2.” For some women, that would be good based on height,bone structure, etc. But at my lightest adult weight I wore a 6-8 and I looked hollow. I don’t aspire to that anymore. Now I’m a little larger but it “wears well,” and I’m eating well and get regular exercise. My blood work etc. all looks great!

I would feel very insulted if my husband told me he was going to “put me on a diet,” as if I were a child. He does things that I don’t think are good for him, but all I can do is lovingly suggest and offer help if he wants it. We both have free will, after all.

…and it’s not like we can watch each other all day long.

Plus, there’s the whole Do Unto Others thing. Would we want to be policed and bossed around the way we are policing and bossing around our spouse?

 

[Xantippe]

Exactly. We are not fitness freaks, but I will say that these people who are overweight are not being tested medically. It only takes one time, to have a shocking lab result to get blasted back into reality.

As a husband, I try my best to help see that my wife is in good physical health. She is enjoying her ever changing physique and has a newfound zest for wearing smaller sized clothing.

I take it you’re not expecting more children?

 

[punisherthunder]

I take it you’re not expecting more children?

Actually, we don’t have any children at all.

My wife has PCOS and right now, her symptoms have improved with her losing weight and eating better. All I can say is that we have been trying to have them for a while with no success. Adoption may be a strong possibility as I just don’t see the idea of visiting fertility labs as some huge thing we need to invest in.

But if we are blessed with a child (children) it certainly would help that we are both physically fit enough to take care of the child.

 

[heidi_storage]

Actually, we don’t have any children at all.

My wife has PCOS and right now, her symptoms have improved with her losing weight and eating better. All I can say is that we have been trying to have them for a while with no success. Adoption may be a strong possibility as I just don’t see the idea of visiting fertility labs as some huge thing we need to invest in.

But if we are blessed with a child (children) it certainly would help that we are both physically fit enough to take care of the child.

I think Xantippe’s point is that becoming pregnant means weight gain, and I would add that for many women that means a permanent body change even if they eat healthily and exercise regularly. Even if she sheds all of the weight (in a healthy manner), things just may not be the same.

But certainly, achieving a healthy weight is excellent if you’re trying for a baby; there are no guarantees that it will improve fertility, but it might possibly do so, and as you say being fit is good for taking care of a child.

Oh, one more thing–being healthy isn’t the same as fitting into a particular size. Body types differ. At my absolute fittest, when I could run a marathon, hike Pike’s Peak, and bicycle regularly, I had a BMI of about 22.4 and still looked, uh, nothing like a swimsuit model.

 

[punisherthunder]

I think Xantippe’s point is that becoming pregnant means weight gain, and I would add that for many women that means a permanent body change even if they eat healthily and exercise regularly. Even if she sheds all of the weight (in a healthy manner), things just may not be the same.

But certainly, achieving a healthy weight is excellent if you’re trying for a baby; there are no guarantees that it will improve fertility, but it might possibly do so, and as you say being fit is good for taking care of a child.

Oh, one more thing–being healthy isn’t the same as fitting into a particular size. Body types differ. At my absolute fittest, when I could run a marathon, hike Pike’s Peak, and bicycle regularly, I had a BMI of about 22.4 and still looked, uh, nothing like a swimsuit model.

I interpreted Xantippe as hinting at a midlife crisis or vanity project with the fitness levels and designer clothes.

Some skinny people can have troubles, but weight still can correlate. My grandmother was heavy a good portion of her life, loved super sweets, and ended up dying at 80 from diabetes/dialysis complications. She also smoked. My uncle on my other side, is the same age with same diabetes/dialysis complications, smokes more than anyone, and he turns up surprisingly good vitals. The difference is he weighs about 140lbs as opposed to my grandmother’s 200lb+ mass.

I know I’m getting heat for my comments, but someone who is 5, 10, or 15lbs overweight isn’t really an issue. It’s for those who are 50, 60, 100lbs over and who claim that it’s ok to look heavy and “claim” they are healthy.

My wife is on a much better track. To be serious she looks much better. Hopefully she will need size 6 pants when we return to the clothing stores. Her new hair extensions, plus her new clothes and confidence, it clearly shows that other women are super jealous of her.

 

[pensmama87]

I interpreted Xantippe as hinting at a midlife crisis or vanity project with the fitness levels and designer clothes.

Some skinny people can have troubles, but weight still can correlate. My grandmother was heavy a good portion of her life, loved super sweets, and ended up dying at 80 from diabetes/dialysis complications. She also smoked. My uncle on my other side, is the same age with same diabetes/dialysis complications, smokes more than anyone, and he turns up surprisingly good vitals. The difference is he weighs about 140lbs as opposed to my grandmother’s 200lb+ mass.

I know I’m getting heat for my comments, but someone who is 5, 10, or 15lbs overweight isn’t really an issue. It’s for those who are 50, 60, 100lbs over and who claim that it’s ok to look heavy and “claim” they are healthy.

My wife is on a much better track. To be serious she looks much better. Hopefully she will need size 6 pants when we return to the clothing stores. Her new hair extensions, plus her new clothes and confidence, it clearly shows that other women are super jealous of her.

I think all of this is fine except the last paragraph. It sounds kind of skeazy, TBH. If your wife is feeling better and taking care of herself, that’s great. But jealousy and clothing sizes are not really great end goals.

 

[alphawoman]

I know I’m getting heat for my comments, but someone who is 5, 10, or 15lbs overweight isn’t really an issue. It’s for those who are 50, 60, 100lbs over and who claim that it’s ok to look heavy and “claim” they are healthy.

To punisherthunder:
I think we can all agree that striving for great health–and enjoying the benefits of a healthy and attractive spouse–are all good things as long as they’re done respectfully and with a positive approach.

You’ve talked about putting your wife on an exercise plan/diet. I interpreted that as her seeking it out from you and you providing it at her request. Great, good for her!
**
Full disclosure/comment to all:**
I’m seeing my parents struggle with the issue. One has gained weight to the point of moving into a BMI>35 range, and the other (and I) are genuinely really concerned for health reasons. Obesity is a serious health problem, and the matter is often tied up with emotions. I’m personally frustrated at the way the dialogue around “big is beautiful” has prevented this parent from taking more swift action to address the underlying health issue. To me, it’s like telling an alcoholic that “a glass of wine a day is good for the heart”, knowing full well that the alcoholic won’t stop at one glass, let alone the bottle. facepalm

It’s really a question of addressing the underlying psychology behind eating habits, and identifying any comorbid health factors, then providing support.

To the general discussion
Fairly or unfairly, physical attractiveness is part of the package of who you’re partnered with. By no means should it be the main determinant of love/attraction, but it does factor in, and wide swings in attractiveness can have knock-on effects in the relationship. The goal is for the partners to mutually support to bring out the best in each other and share a productive, happy, and healthy life together. (There…that’s as PC as I can get! Much respect to everyone!)

 

[punisherthunder]

To punisherthunder:
I think we can all agree that striving for great health–and enjoying the benefits of a healthy and attractive spouse–are all good things as long as they’re done respectfully and with a positive approach.

You’ve talked about putting your wife on an exercise plan/diet. I interpreted that as her seeking it out from you and you providing it at her request. Great, good for her!
**
Full disclosure/comment to all:**
I’m seeing my parents struggle with the issue. One has gained weight to the point of moving into a BMI>35 range, and the other (and I) are genuinely really concerned for health reasons. Obesity is a serious health problem, and the matter is often tied up with emotions. I’m personally frustrated at the way the dialogue around “big is beautiful” has prevented this parent from taking more swift action to address the underlying health issue. To me, it’s like telling an alcoholic that “a glass of wine a day is good for the heart”, knowing full well that the alcoholic won’t stop at one glass, let alone the bottle. facepalm

It’s really a question of addressing the underlying psychology behind eating habits, and identifying any comorbid health factors, then providing support.

To the general discussion
Fairly or unfairly, physical attractiveness is part of the package of who you’re partnered with. By no means should it be the main determinant of love/attraction, but it does factor in, and wide swings in attractiveness can have knock-on effects in the relationship. The goal is for the partners to mutually support to bring out the best in each other and share a productive, happy, and healthy life together. (There…that’s as PC as I can get! Much respect to everyone!)

Thank you, as I mentioned, it is already reaping dividends for her.

 

[punisherthunder]

I think all of this is fine except the last paragraph. It sounds kind of skeazy, TBH. If your wife is feeling better and taking care of herself, that’s great. But jealousy and clothing sizes are not really great end goals.

The jealousy is now how she is treated by other women at her job. It’s not something she seeks out I assure you. I do not know the definition of “skeazy”.

A clothing size is a great end goal because it shows: she has the willpower to get there, can make a plan and stick to it, she is rewarded by self satisfaction, has better health and fitness levels, is more financially sound by not having to purchase higher priced “size up” clothing.

 

[alphawoman]

alphawoman:

Full disclosure/comment to all:
I’m seeing my parents struggle with the issue. One has gained weight to the point of moving into a BMI>35 range, and the other (and I) are genuinely really concerned for health reasons. Obesity is a serious health problem, and the matter is often tied up with emotions. I’m personally frustrated at the way the dialogue around “big is beautiful” has prevented this parent from taking more swift action to address the underlying health issue. To me, it’s like telling an alcoholic that “a glass of wine a day is good for the heart”, knowing full well that the alcoholic won’t stop at one glass, let alone the bottle. facepalm

It’s really a question of addressing the underlying psychology behind eating habits, and identifying any comorbid health factors, then providing support.

I just wanted to address/clarify my earlier point for the thread as a whole.

People are beautiful, chiefly, for WHO they are. It takes a lot of courage and persistence to address health challenges, and it’s so important to make people feel like they’re not “less” because of a given health or appearance characteristic. The dignity of the person comes from within.

In NO way am I saying that people who struggle with extra weight are anything less than those who don’t. Everyone one of us has a personal challenge (or many!) to address, some are just more visible than others. But not helping people address legitimate medical challenges in a constructive and supportive way is also uncharitable.

I don’t think we any of us disagree on this point, because the discussion has been really polite and respectful, but I thought it was worth reiterating for my own sake.

 

[pensmama87]

The jealousy is now how she is treated by other women at her job. It’s not something she seeks out I assure you. I do not know the definition of “skeazy”.

A clothing size is a great end goal because it shows: she has the willpower to get there, can make a plan and stick to it, she is rewarded by self satisfaction, has better health and fitness levels, is more financially sound by not having to purchase higher priced “size up” clothing.

Skeazy: creepy, sleazy, icky, “off.” (ETA: To clarify, I don’t think you meant it to come off that way, but just pointing out that it read that way to me and may also to others. If you’re going to “evangelize” good health, which is a good thing, it can help to be aware of how you come across. Having been a fat person, I can assure you that you can be sensitive without excusing poor health or lifestyle choices!)

As a man, you might not deal with this as much, but women’s clothing sizes are notoriously not standard, even within brands. If I like a brand of jeans, but want two different cuts, I might wear one size for one and a different one for another. If we’re talking formal wear, get ready to be at least 2-4 sizes larger than normal, or more.

Weight can also fluctuate throughout a cycle due to water retention. You’ve probably seen ads for PMS relief products that mention bloating. It’s a real thing. Depending on the fit of clothes, there might be times things don’t fit the same way, and there’s no need for that to cause a panic.

Yes, in general, once you’re at a healthy weight you shouldn’t have to constantly buy clothes. But I’m just suggesting caution that the numbers that matter most are the ones suggested by doctors, not clothing retailers, and remember nobody sees the tags. I’m not into “fat acceptance” in the sense that people ignore good health. But not everybody should wear a size 2. So, just be careful in your zeal, and keep your wife’s health first.

 

[NonTimendum]

Actually even without being overtly abusive there could still be other forms of abuse going on that the wife might have to discern. Cheating, pornography use, subtle manipulation…

You know, I think I’m going to go out on a limb and say that women are just as capable of “abuse” as men, if not more.

Yes the husband has a duty to love the wife. However the wife also has the duty to love the husband. Jesus did say “love one another as I have loved you”. He also said; “let the first among you be last, and the last, first.” And also “Do not let it be among you as it is with the pagans, where the leaders lord it over their subjects.”

Okay so you agree that a wife should willingly submit to her husband as a sign of Christian love, right? Or is it only the husband who has a duty?

I often find it a wonder that so many men on this forum talk about “wifely submission” but don’t think of the other commands that Jesus gave. If, as you say, the husband is the head of the family, then, as per Jesus’ words, he should be the servant of the family. There really is too much of this nonsense about submissive wives. If you want to find a wife who believes that then go crazy, but the essence of Christian Marriage since the beginning was about a man and a woman doing life together. If you’re married you won’t have much time to worry about whether your wife is submissive enough.

“Doing life together” is one of those new-age platitudes that has very little meaning but sounds like it’s something important. I often wonder why it is perfectly fine to bring up all the duties of a husband on forums like these, and to bring up all the ways that husbands can abuse their wives, and to imply that husbands need to humble themselves… But it’s not okay to talk that way about the wife.

I bet if there was a thread about “What do boyfriends do to make their partners feel unwanted.” We wouldn’t have a bunch of women falling all over themselves to tell us how no man can make you feel unwanted and if you feel that way then it’s because you’re actually not worth much, and a bunch of men acting scornful whenever a person brings up something they’ve noticed. Somehow I can’t really imagine that thread happening.

50% divorce rate with 80% being initiated by the woman, I’d say men need to start wondering about how their wife feels about submission.

 

[Xantippe]

The jealousy is now how she is treated by other women at her job. It’s not something she seeks out I assure you. I do not know the definition of “skeazy”.

A clothing size is a great end goal because it shows: she has the willpower to get there, can make a plan and stick to it, she is rewarded by self satisfaction, has better health and fitness levels, is more financially sound by not having to purchase higher priced “size up” clothing.

If the two of you make her being size 2 the end-all-be-all, she’s not going to want to get pregnant and wreck all that hard work and not be able to fit into her pretty new clothes. Pregnancy does some frankly rather gross things to the female body.

wellnessmama.com/60398/diastasis-recti/

That’s what I was thinking about earlier. I didn’t realize that you and your wife didn’t have children, so I was having a lot of trouble squaring the size 2 worship with her having several children, a new baby every 2-3 years (which a lot of CAFers do), and doing the personal maintenance you describe. I suspect there aren’t a lot of size 2 moms with hair extensions among the CAF readership.

If you guys do wind up having children, both of you are going to need to adjust to the new reality–either you’ll need to make a huge time and money investment in her physical maintenance or you’ll need to relax your standards.

Some marriage counseling would also not be amiss, as you don’t seem to respect this woman that you’re hoping to have a family with.

 

[punisherthunder]

If the two of you make her being size 2 the end-all-be-all, she’s not going to want to get pregnant and wreck all that hard work and not be able to fit into her pretty new clothes. Pregnancy does some frankly rather gross things to the female body.

wellnessmama.com/60398/diastasis-recti/

That’s what I was thinking about earlier. I didn’t realize that you and your wife didn’t have children, so I was having a lot of trouble squaring the size 2 worship with her having several children, a new baby every 2-3 years (which a lot of CAFers do), and doing the personal maintenance you describe. I suspect there aren’t a lot of size 2 moms with hair extensions among the CAF readership.

If you guys do wind up having children, both of you are going to need to adjust to the new reality–either you’ll need to make a huge time and money investment in her physical maintenance or you’ll need to relax your standards.

Some marriage counseling would also not be amiss, as you don’t seem to respect this woman that you’re hoping to have a family with.

We are 100% aware that there is weight gain and other issues with pregnancy. PCOS has really marred our chances of fertility. The doctor said that losing weight can help keep the PCOS at bay and that the overall cardiovascular health program is better even if we don’t conceive.

Is there size 2 worship? Possibly. Is that bad? No.