Thirteen Catholic Senators Vote Against Religious Liberty

[SpeakInSilence]

Why aren’t these clowns being excommunicated? I’m not exactly sure how it works but these guys don’t seem to follow any of the Catholic Church’s teaching. They don’t care about children, they don’t listen to their bishops, and they deceivingly say they care about the poor.

Martin Luther got excommunicated for leading a heresy against the Church; however these senators are leading a Crusade of non-belief all in the name of the CC.

The Catholic Church needs to crack down on these guys. They need to excommunicate these dealers of death, they need to make sure no Church or Catholic Church funds these senators.

 

[Brendan]

I. But to deny a right to others who believe differently is contrary to our religious freedom in this country. .

No one is denying anyone a right to use contraception. If their belief system permits them to use contraception, that IS their right.

But that does not mean that they have to send the bill for their bedroom activities to the Catholic Church.

It is THEY who are forcing their beliefs on US, not vice versa.

 

[Dranu]

How any faithful Catholic can vote for a Democrat is beyond me. They are truly the “anti Catholic Party”

Amen, but with utilitarian arguments, one can justify just about anything.

 

[Dirt]

The time is approaching, very quickly, when we will have to decide if we are Catholic, or citizens. for i feel we will not be able to be both.
from the Gospel of Saint Mark;
" [8] For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and famines. These things are the beginning of sorrows. [9] But look to yourselves. For they shall deliver you up to councils, and in the synagogues you shall be beaten, and you shall stand before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony unto them. [10] And unto all nations the gospel must first be preached.

[11] And when they shall lead you and deliver you up, be not thoughtful beforehand what you shall speak; but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye. For it is not you that speak, but the Holy Ghost. [12] And the brother shall betray his brother unto death, and the father his son; and children shall rise up against the parents, and shall work their death. [13] And you shall be hated by all men for my name’s sake. But he that shall endure unto the end, he shall be saved. [14] And when you shall see the abomination of desolation, standing where it ought not: he that readeth let him understand: then let them that are in Judea, flee unto the mountains: [15] And let him that is on the housetop, not go down into the house, nor enter therein to take any thing out of the house:"

quote from drbo.org/index.htm

 

[chadair]

I respect your viewpoint but I disagree on several (not all) points. First, religious liberty applies to all Americans, not just the ones who believe as we do. While certain things may be forbidden by one religion, others may believe just the opposite. My reasoning is that we don’t have the right to impose our beliefs on others by law, mandate, or social pressure. We should live so as to exemplify what we believe, but criticizing or legislating against religious freedom for others is against our Constitution.

As Catholics, we should understand persecution and should defend all human rights (including the right to reject what we believe). For people who don’t believe contraception is right and that abortion is wrong, they need not use either one–at least not in this country where religious freedom is protected. But to deny a right to others who believe differently is contrary to our religious freedom in this country. If we impose our beliefs on others, it’s only a matter of time until some other group imposes their beliefs on us. (Take for example, China which forbids couples from having more than one child.)

To me, the best way to lead is by example, not by law.

wow. so we should except abortion? it’s legal in this country!!

Isn’t what this whole thing about the simple fact that our religious liberty is being taken from us!! What exactly are you talking about. Your position can be summed up as follows: “All Catholics are doormats.”

Isn’t this vote, other groups imposing their beliefs on US!!! WAKE UP!!! YOUR RELIGIOUS LIBERTIES ARE BEING TRAMPLED!!!

AGREED!

How any faithful Catholic can vote for a Democrat is beyond me. They are truly the “anti Catholic Party”

AMEN!!!

 

[JReducation]

I respect your viewpoint but I disagree on several (not all) points. First, religious liberty applies to all Americans, not just the ones who believe as we do. While certain things may be forbidden by one religion, others may believe just the opposite. My reasoning is that we don’t have the right to impose our beliefs on others by law, mandate, or social pressure. We should live so as to exemplify what we believe, but criticizing or legislating against religious freedom for others is against our Constitution.

As Catholics, we should understand persecution and should defend all human rights (including the right to reject what we believe). For people who don’t believe contraception is right and that abortion is wrong, they need not use either one–at least not in this country where religious freedom is protected. But to deny a right to others who believe differently is contrary to our religious freedom in this country. If we impose our beliefs on others, it’s only a matter of time until some other group imposes their beliefs on us. (Take for example, China which forbids couples from having more than one child.)

To me, the best way to lead is by example, not by law.

The problem here is not as easy.

First, no one is imposing their Catholic beliefs on anyone. Catholics, Muslims, Orthodox Jews and Orthodox Christians are defending their right not to pay for a product that they believe is immoral.

Second, the HHS mandate does not only affect Catholic institutions. It affects the average American entrepreneur. I know a Catholic man, father of five, who owns his own company with 12 employees. He is also a Secular Franciscan. He has told his employees that they will have to find other jobs come July 31, because he will not provide medical coverage for contraceptives, abortifacents and sterilization. However, since the law does not allow him to hire only faithful Catholics, he has only one option left. He has to comply with the mandate of the General Minister of the Franciscan Order that he not comply with this regulation, because it’s immoral. Therefore, he will be closing his business. Even if the employees agree to work for him, the government will penalize him for not providing said coverage. You’re going to have 13 families without income. Multiply that by the number of faithful Catholics, Muslims, Orthodox Jews and Orthodox Christian entrepreneur in this country and figure out how many people will be unemployed, penalized or forced to pay for something against the moral conscience.

During my first year teaching, my superior asked me to help a local Rabbi who ran a wonderful program for immigrant Jewish boys. These boys did not speak English. They needed a math tutor who spoke Hebrew and Yiddish. Being a Jew myself, I was asked to go there three afternoons per week to tutor the boys.

The rules of the Hasidim require that you cover your head even when indoors. So, I wore a kippah and did not wear my habit. No one forced me to accept the tutoring position. I wanted to be there. However, those are their rules. You wear a kippah and you do not wear a Catholic habit in the classroom. Interestingly enough, you may wear it in the temple, if you go for services, but not in the school. That’s another story. The point is that no one imposed their religious beliefs on me, because there was no law that required me to work for a Yeshiva. I went there with full knowledge of their rules. After all, I grew up Sephardi.

The same applies here. If the law were to say that you must notify the candidate that your benefits package does not cover these things, at the time that you make an offer of employment, that’s a fair law. It’s called full disclosure. There are no surprises. You’re not imposing anything on the employee. He can work for you or keep looking for another place of employment.

Had I found it offensive to take off my habit and to wear a kippah, I would have found another group of poor kids that needed help with math who were not Hasidim. There are millions of such kids in the USA.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[meltzerboy]

lifenews.com/2012/03/01/thirteen-catholic-senators-vote-against-religious-liberty/

by Steven Ertelt | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 3/1/12 1:53 PM

The Senate today voted against the Blunt Amendment that would have protected the rights of religious employers from having to pay for birth control and drugs that may cause abortions.

Although the Catholic Church and leading pro-life Catholic groups strongly supported the amendment and one Cardinal warned how the Obama HHS mandate might have devastating effects for Catholic health care — possibly shutting down hospitals — Catholic senators didn’t appear to get the message. Thirteen of them voted against the amendment.

[excerpt]

Senators Mark Begich (Alaska, D)
Tom Harkin (Iowa, D)
Richard Durbin (Illinois, D)
Mary Landrieu (Louisiana, D)
John Kerry (Massachusetts, D)
Barbara Mikulski (Maryland, D)
Claire McCaskill (Missouri, D)
Robert Menendez (New Jersey, D)
Kirsten Gillibrand (New York, D)
Jack Reed (Rhode Island, D)
Pat Leahy (Vermont, D)
Maria Cantwell (Washington, D)
Patty Murray (Washington, D).

I’m a proud Liberal Democrat and I’m ashamed these Democratic senators voted against the Blunt amendment. I’m also greatly disappointed that Chuck Schumer, Senator of NY, was in lockstep with the others; and doubly disappointed because he is a Reform Jew, as I am, and should understand that religious liberty is the principle we’re fighting for. These senators are not true liberals; they are leftist ideologues who don’t have the guts to stand up for moral principles and civil liberties.

 

[JReducation]

I’m a proud Liberal Democrat and I’m ashamed these Democratic senators voted against the Blunt amendment. I’m also greatly disappointed that Chuck Schumer, Senator of NY, was in lockstep with the others; and doubly disappointed because he is a Reform Jew, as I am, and should understand that religious liberty is the principle we’re fighting for. These senators are not true liberals; they are leftist ideologues who don’t have the guts to stand up for moral principles and civil liberties.

As a Jew who lost five uncles in Nazi Germany, who were teenage boys, I fully agree that this is not a Catholic issue. This is about the freedom to be the people we are, be it Christian, Jew, Muslim or pagan. We (Jews) know what it means to live in a society where your beliefs are shunned and disregarded because they’re not popular or because they don’t represent the majority. We went through this in Spain, Germany, the Soviet Union and now we’re going to go through this again in the USA?

People forget that the number of men and women who lost their lives because they would not compromise their faith were not all Jews. There have been Christians and Muslims as well. Nazis and Communists were equal opportunity oppressors. The Jews were the largest group.

Now, the Catholics are the largest group. However, like the Jews of Germany and the Soviet Union, they are not the only victims. As I always say, the moment that you break a single link in the chain that binds human rights, there are no barriers left. Two halves of a chain do not a barrier make.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[anp1215]

The problem here is not as easy.

First, no one is imposing their Catholic beliefs on anyone. Catholics, Muslims, Orthodox Jews and Orthodox Christians are defending their right not to pay for a product that they believe is immoral.

Second, the HHS mandate does not only affect Catholic institutions. It affects the average American entrepreneur. I know a Catholic man, father of five, who owns his own company with 12 employees. He is also a Secular Franciscan. He has told his employees that they will have to find other jobs come July 31, because he will not provide medical coverage for contraceptives, abortifacents and sterilization. However, since the law does not allow him to hire only faithful Catholics, he has only one option left. He has to comply with the mandate of the General Minister of the Franciscan Order that he not comply with this regulation, because it’s immoral. Therefore, he will be closing his business. Even if the employees agree to work for him, the government will penalize him for not providing said coverage. You’re going to have 13 families without income. Multiply that by the number of faithful Catholics, Muslims, Orthodox Jews and Orthodox Christian entrepreneur in this country and figure out how many people will be unemployed, penalized or forced to pay for something against the moral conscience.

During my first year teaching, my superior asked me to help a local Rabbi who ran a wonderful program for immigrant Jewish boys. These boys did not speak English. They needed a math tutor who spoke Hebrew and Yiddish. Being a Jew myself, I was asked to go there three afternoons per week to tutor the boys.

The rules of the Hasidim require that you cover your head even when indoors. So, I wore a kippah and did not wear my habit. No one forced me to accept the tutoring position. I wanted to be there. However, those are their rules. You wear a kippah and you do not wear a Catholic habit in the classroom. Interestingly enough, you may wear it in the temple, if you go for services, but not in the school. That’s another story. The point is that no one imposed their religious beliefs on me, because there was no law that required me to work for a Yeshiva. I went there with full knowledge of their rules. After all, I grew up Sephardi.

The same applies here. If the law were to say that you must notify the candidate that your benefits package does not cover these things, at the time that you make an offer of employment, that’s a fair law. It’s called full disclosure. There are no surprises. You’re not imposing anything on the employee. He can work for you or keep looking for another place of employment.

Had I found it offensive to take off my habit and to wear a kippah, I would have found another group of poor kids that needed help with math who were not Hasidim. There are millions of such kids in the USA.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I’m a proud Liberal Democrat and I’m ashamed these Democratic senators voted against the Blunt amendment. I’m also greatly disappointed that Chuck Schumer, Senator of NY, was in lockstep with the others; and doubly disappointed because he is a Reform Jew, as I am, and should understand that religious liberty is the principle we’re fighting for. These senators are not true liberals; they are leftist ideologues who don’t have the guts to stand up for moral principles and civil liberties.

As a Jew who lost five uncles in Nazi Germany, who were teenage boys, I fully agree that this is not a Catholic issue. This is about the freedom to be the people we are, be it Christian, Jew, Muslim or pagan. We (Jews) know what it means to live in a society where your beliefs are shunned and disregarded because they’re not popular or because they don’t represent the majority. We went through this in Spain, Germany, the Soviet Union and now we’re going to go through this again in the USA?

People forget that the number of men and women who lost their lives because they would not compromise their faith were not all Jews. There have been Christians and Muslims as well. Nazis and Communists were equal opportunity oppressors. The Jews were the largest group.

Now, the Catholics are the largest group. However, like the Jews of Germany and the Soviet Union, they are not the only victims. As I always say, the moment that you break a single link in the chain that binds human rights, there are no barriers left. Two halves of a chain do not a barrier make.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I really enjoyed reading these interesting responses.

 

[sedonaman]

LaRue

You fail to understand is the difference between Negative and Positive rights.

…

Excellent post! Another point of confusion is the claim that “the government has the right to do X” when what is meant is has authority to do X. In this case, the Church is challenging the government’s authority to force its members to violate their conscience.