This is almost a novel, but if you could advise...thanks

  • Thread starter Thread starter Princess_Abby
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
kaj3:
Take whatever legal action you need to, but at the end of the day, do not be consumed by fear. Remember that God is in control, and He’s allowing this to happen. He created your baby for a reason, and it wasn’t so that your baby could be harmed in any way by your family.

Seek His will in all things, and He will see you through this. Remember that there is spiritual protection around you when you are doing His will, and although the situation may be difficult for even years to come, do not let the fear override your trust in God.

Pope John Paul II said that there are no coincidences in life (paraphrase), meaning that everything happens for a reason according to God’s plan for our salvation. And so this too is happening to you for a reason.

I know when my kids are sick or I am otherwise worried about them, sometimes I worry myself sick with fear of what could happen. It’s not easy to let go of those fears, but I take a lot of comfort in praying to their guardian angels. Remember, too, that usually our worst fears never see the light of day.

God’s in charge of this!
Click to expand...
Thank you VERY much for this post. You sound actually a lot like my husband. He is constantly telling me to let go of the “what ifs” and live my life in the present without any fear. When I worked as a behavioral therapist, I was constantly “predicting behavior” as part of my job. Now I find it very hard to stop doing it in my own personal life, especially knowing that past behavior is the best indicator for future behavior.

But, like you said, my baby is a blessing and God gave her to me to keep her safe–so He will provide me with the means to do so.

And, like you said, I am constantly told by my husband that all things which happen are allowed by God and serve a greater purpose. He has reminded me several times that God knew this would happen before He allowed us to come here.

Table Servant–very good suggestions! Thank you.
 
Have you considered moving an hour or two away from your parents/family? That would be better than living in the same town, your husband could keep his job, and you would have people to call on if you needed them. You mentioned that your husband works over an hour away. Why not let that be the perfect pretext for moving away from your family? We just bought our first house (I don’t know if you’re renting or if you bought a house) and moved with a nine-month old. It wasn’t too bad. I think it would have been even easier to move with a younger one (although our son is an exceptionally “easy” baby). And I think it would be a truly difficult experience to move with a toddler on your hands in a year and a half. We also had a very hard time with my husband’s family, but living an hour away from them seemed to do the trick for us 😉 And we’re still just over an hour away from my parents, who are a wonderful support for us.

Oh, and if you lived around the corner from your hubby’s work, you could drop him off and keep the car at home. We also have only one car, so I know how tedious that gets! And you could save a lot of money, obviously, on insurance and gas, etc. by making do with one car for as long as you can.
 
40.png
CatholicSam:
Have you considered moving an hour or two away from your parents/family? That would be better than living in the same town, your husband could keep his job, and you would have people to call on if you needed them. You mentioned that your husband works over an hour away. Why not let that be the perfect pretext for moving away from your family? We just bought our first house (I don’t know if you’re renting or if you bought a house) and moved with a nine-month old. It wasn’t too bad. I think it would have been even easier to move with a younger one (although our son is an exceptionally “easy” baby). And I think it would be a truly difficult experience to move with a toddler on your hands in a year and a half. We also had a very hard time with my husband’s family, but living an hour away from them seemed to do the trick for us 😉 And we’re still just over an hour away from my parents, who are a wonderful support for us.

Oh, and if you lived around the corner from your hubby’s work, you could drop him off and keep the car at home. We also have only one car, so I know how tedious that gets! And you could save a lot of money, obviously, on insurance and gas, etc. by making do with one car for as long as you can.
Click to expand...
Yes, we have thought about moving just an hour or so away. I don’t think that’s far away enough, though. The other issue is that we’d be in a shady diocese. He actually works in the city, so unless we bought a lofted place, we wouldn’t be able to live right around the corner. Plus, that whole suburban area on the other side of town isn’t a very nice suburban area.

We would probably consider St. Louis, then Chicago or somewhere in Colorado first. But I know the latter two are very expensive places to live, and we don’t know anyone in any of those cities anyway. (I do have an aunt in St. Louis that I’ve seen maybe four times in my life.) The other problem is that my dad is a member of the bar in Missouri, so I’m not sure I want to make it easy for him if legalities/visitation become an issue.
 
Abby,
Wow. You have several sets of difficult situations here. When reading about what is going on, I was getting the distinct impression that God has a reason for you to be back home, near your family. Though it probably doesn’t seem easy, or pleasant, I think God wants you there to help your family through this difficult time. I am basing this on the fact that when I read other people’s posts on this board, and cannot thing of a single helpful thought to respond with, I almost always scroll down and see that you have posted a positive, helpful, and sensible response. You seem to have a gift at providing great ideas for solving difficult problems.

That being said, there is no reason to poison your life with your parents’ attitudes and behaviors, but nothing is going to be solved by sitting home and worrying about it. Perhaps you could try to get a group of the “outcasted” family together to talk about the situation and come up with some suggested resolutions. It does sound to me like your mother has a mental illness, be it Alzheimer’s, alcoholism, or something else. It also sounds like if you were to try to talk to her about it, things would only get worse. Maybe the group of you could come up with a solution.

I guess I don’t have a lot of help to add here, but please know that I’ll be praying for you and your family and that I will rejoice with you on the day your little baby is born.
 
I’m sorry you have this to deal with.

Documenting is an excellent idea. Write down everything, including the called-off baby shower, choosing a batch of corn bread over the need to get you to promptly an ER at your doctor’s direction, and her telling you and everyone else that she refused to be examined further when her doctor raised the possibility that she might have dementia. Do not forget: if this comes to going to court, your mom is also going to need to prove that she is a fit parent. If you have enough evidence to show she might be unstable, a court will require her to have mental tests. It does not sound as if she would consent to that, and if she did, she might well fail to pass. (Don’t mention what the doctor told you directly unless he has HIPPA paperwork that allows him to give you information on her health status. If he violated federal privacy rules in making that comment, he’ll get into trouble and that whole line of argument could be thrown out. Stranger things have happened in court.)

There are two non-exclusive possibilities here. One is that your mom has some sort of dementia (which need not be Alzheimer’s)and because it has had a slow onset, your dad either doesn’t realize it or is in denial. Been there, done that. It started with Mom taking offense and getting upset where she never would have in the past. Then it got so that she could not follow a logical argument. When you tried to get her to, she would get mad and stomp off. Eventually, some of us kids became villians and others became favorites, although luckily she would forget the “villian” part most of the time.

At any rate, you have become the object of her paranoia. It is unlikely that you will do much directly to improve things. Besides, you haven’t been around her, so changes will be difficult for you to judge. So talk to your sister or SIL that is still in “favorite” status. Impress upon them that if your mom’s troubles have an organic cause, the cause might be treatable, and even easily treatable. If your “in” relatives refuse to help, they could be contributing to her suffering, not just theirs. Even with Alzheimer’s, there are drugs that can delay entrance into a nursing home by two years or more, if started early enough. Have them go online and look themselves, if they won’t believe you.

Here are a few issues to raise:
  1. She needs to be watched for further evidence of whether she does have dementia or just is being difficult. Dementia is defined as the loss of previously attained mental abilities. Have your sisters on the lookout: Is she less able to follow logic or reasoning? Does she ever take metaphorical language literally? Does she forget and not realize she has forgotten? Is she uncharacteristically paranoid or defensive, compared to say, ten years ago? Is she uncharacteristically rude, thoughtless, or demanding? Has she raised any trouble with the people she banks with? Is she uncharacteristically moody or unpredictable? Does she often use “that thing” or some other vague descriptor in place of the word she would normally use? Is her ability to drive unimpaired?
  2. If your mom does have dementia, she may have a form of that is treatable. Your sister or SIL may eventually be able to convince her to seek treatment for memory loss or difficulty sleeping. If she doesn’t deal with the idea of having dementia, even to get treated, a geriatric psychiatrist will know how to approach her sensititively.
  3. In the meantime, do yourself a big favor and take a class on dealing with dementia and memory loss. Your stress level and hers will be much, much lower. It is much easier to put yourself out for a sick parent than for a deliberately abusive one.
The other possibility is that your mother was never the sweet lady you made her out to be… that her loss in faculties is more a fall from a pedastal you had her on (and her reaction to having been removed) than anything else. But based on what you have related, I’d (unfortunately for you mom) put my money on dementia being at least a part of this equation.

In either case, a little more distance might give you the amount of access to your family that is healthy. Draw a line from your parents’ house to where your DH works. Extend that line in the other direction. How far in that direction would you have to move to be at least an hour’s drive from your parents and yet a reasonable commute to your husband’s work? Does his company have another site nearby that he might transfer to?

Living over an hour’s drive from one’s parents is a nice distance in a case where you want to see them, but don’t want them dropping in very often… particularly if it scoots you over a state line, where laws or courts are more in your favor. If you don’t make the move about your mom, but about something desirable about living in the other location, it might be enough to get you back to “favored daughter” status.
 
40.png
Princess_Abby:
Yes, we have thought about moving just an hour or so away. I don’t think that’s far away enough, though.
Click to expand...
Let me tell you from experience: over an hour each way makes a *huge *difference. I love my parents and siblings, but getting to see them is something we need to schedule. They almost never get up here except for a planned function. My siblings, OTOH, live half an hour away and see them all the time. Unless your mom likes to live behind the wheel of a car, it will make a difference.

Besides, she has more fish to fry than just you. If you go quietly and without strife, out of sight may be out of mind.
 
I understand that you would not want to live in the city (we just got out of the city ourselves!), but maybe this is something you should consider doing for the short term–that “test” year that your husband is talking about. Although if at the end of the year you found that you needed to move yet again, your husband could have been building his career at one company instead of moving around from company to company, and of course you will have all the additional expenses of moving.

May I ask what narrows your choice of places to live down to those three places you mentioned? Move to GA 🙂 It’s cheap and far, far away 😃

Has your best friend consented to being the legal guardian of your daughter in the event of tragedy?
 
40.png
Princess_Abby:
One more thing the lawyer said was to be certain we never allowed them unsupervised access to the baby, or else we’d be demonstrating a trust there that we don’t feel.
…
Oh, and the lawyer also said that while a court can’t order us not to move, a judge CAN order visitation even after we’ve moved!!!
Click to expand...
~ If you do offer (and document) invitations to your parents to visit the child at your house or a neutral location on a fairly regular basis, even with your dad’s reputation the courts are not likely to grant (especially unsupervised) visitation if the problem is that your mother has already been refusing reasonable offers for visitation or behaved oddly at visits you terminated after she started acting out. If you provide a track record of trying to be reasonable while your mother does not, the courts are going to favor the apparently reasonable party’s judgement in the matter and leave it at that, because the availablilty of a reasonable party makes management of the issue much simpler for the court.
 
Ray_Scheel said:
~ If you do offer (and document) invitations to your parents to visit the child at your house or a neutral location on a fairly regular basis, even with your dad’s reputation the courts are not likely to grant (especially unsupervised) visitation if the problem is that your mother has already been refusing reasonable offers for visitation or behaved oddly at visits you terminated after she started acting out. If you provide a track record of trying to be reasonable while your mother does not, the courts are going to favor the apparently reasonable party’s judgement in the matter and leave it at that, because the availablilty of a reasonable party makes management of the issue much simpler for the court.
Click to expand...

The most recent court decisions have really been limiting grandparents visitation rights against the wishes of the parents. What works to your advantage is that this baby will have both his biological parents still married. Most of the grandparents rights cases have been divorce/widowed cases where the parents of the non-custodial parent are seeking redress. No court is going to grant access to your child when it is you AND your husband (the baby’s bio father) making the decision to limit access. You also may be better off limiting access from the time the child is born because if you offer access and then withdraw that access it may actually give them a stronger case. I suggest you talk to a lawyer who specializes in this area. The $500 or so consultation fee will be worth the peace of mind you’ll get.
 
Sorry to hear about your situation with your family. I am also 26 years old. I was 17 when I met my husband and my parents didn’t like the fact that I had a boyfriend. I am a middle child of 2 boys and I met my husband 1 week before my older brother left for the army. The whole time he was in the army my mom used me as her punching bag (not physically). We had an awful relationship and it wasn’t much better where my dad was concerned. My husband (we were not married at the time) has stood by me through it all and I am happy to say that we all have a great relationship now. It got better because I set ground rules and boundaries after I married my husband and not to mention I also got pregnant right away. I talked to my mom about how she was making me feel. Unfortunately, HIS parents and brother are giving us so much trouble now. HIS mother sounds alot like yours. She also caters to my sister in law to have access to their daughter. They are obsessive about how much time they spend with their grandchild. If the other grandparents see her, they demand a visit too to keep it even. Don’t let your mother do that to you. My inlaws have told us that “They have rights”. Well, no they have PRIVELAGES. Your mother is trying to control you by threatening to take you to court. Stand your ground!!! Don’t fall for it. You tell her that if she chooses to treat you like a doormat that she wipes her feet on in order to have a visit with you and your child, then she may as well not even ring the doorbell. She needs to respect you, and your position as the parent. Yes, you are still her daughter… but you are an adult, not a child and need to be treated accordingly. I promise you, if you put your foot down (respectfully), she may back down. It will be hard. I was recommended this book by “Ask an Apologist” yesterday and have ordered it. Maybe you should look into it.Catholic Counselors - Support along your spiritual journeyCatholic Counselors | The homepage of Professional Solutions Counseling, providing services to individuals or couples in need. a book on how to deal with difficult parents and family members and it was written by a catholic psychologist. You are more than welcome to PM me if you feel the need to talk more. I totally understand where you are coming from. Good Luck with your pregnancy and baby. 👍
 
My advice? You like the area, friends, some great family members – then don’t let someone run you out of town!

You CAN distance yourself and not be confrontational at the same time.

I’m sure you have a good friend who would LOVE to throw you a baby shower, give her the green light and have a good time.

Go ahead now and plan the baptism. Just have it all ready and planned out. Family and friends all get nice invites. Same goes for holiday’s, birthday’s, etc. Take charge of the planning.

Then your mom wants grandma time with the new baby. First 6 weeks, you don’t want to expose the baby to colds, flu, ragweed, whatever. Baby stays at your house. After that, you are nursing – so, you and baby are a package deal.

When they want you to come over for a dinner or whatever and you do not want to do it, be soooo sorry but you have to attend Rosary making class or have whatever other commitments but how about instead we all meet for Mass this Sunday? (Mom gets to show baby off to her church pals, but, it is not a social event or in her control).

If mom wants to dote on the other grandchildren, then fine. God knows your child will be loved and cherished by you, your DH, your good friends, and some of your family. Maybe the other child really needs that attention.
  • and of course, keep praying and working behind the scenes to get your mom the help she needs. If none of that works, move to Arkansas. It is gorgeous, you will never meet nicer people, cost of living is low and our Bishop ROCKS!
 
Yes, move a bit away, preferably to a different judicial district from where your father practiced. Remember the old adage, *“Distance makes the heart grow fonder.” *It’s only a matter of time before she starts feeling “burdened” by having all of these grandchildren weighing her down. Submit her name to several cruise lines for literature, that should be enough!!

I share your pain, haven’t spoken to my own child-abusing mother in 9 years and counting. She ruled the family with an iron tantrum, but boy did it make me stubborn not to reward bad behavior in adults. My biggest fear of my first Confession was that I might have the penance of reconciling with my mom!😉

You’ll be in our prayers.
 
PA - I have to say this; after all you have done for everyone on this forum (me included) there is no other time I wish I had a magic wand than right this minute. I can think of no one who deserves a ‘boing!’ and 'all better!" more than you. I am so sorry you are going through this right now.

And your poor DAD! And your poor Mom, too. I can imagine she is probably scared (I doubt she’ll admit it) especially if there is a history of alzheimers in her family.

You know my ‘Jesus Box’ technique…and how much I believe in prayer. I know you do too, and I am sure you are utilizing it all the time.

Can you talk to your Dad privately?

What does your spiritual director say?

This is a difficult cross for you to bear…and you must be careful of the little one.
If you can love your Mom from a distance right now, keeping yourself well and the baby safe, that’s probably the best deal. Have your other sister re-plan your baby shower. You are probably right, and this is not being done by your Mom out of spite, but because of an illness.
 
And I think you should keep a notebook, noting everything odd your Mom does, so that if there are ever any questions about whether she can be left alone with your baby you can be up front and honest with your family and any powers-that-might-be…does that make sense?
 
PA,

You mentioned possibly moving to Chicago… I love it here… but honestly you are correct in that it IS ridiculously expensive… espeically for a young family just starting out. We live over an hour by train from the city in a sweet little suburb but the downside is you pretty much can’t touch a house under $200,000 - and that’s for a small one that needs work. The newer houses in subdivisions with 3/4 bedrooms run closer to $300,000. Gas is expensive - food is expensive - taxes are high… Whenever we travel, just for kicks I look at the real estate section of the paper and my husband and I can’t believe how much more our money would buy someplace else (Indiana for example).

I wonder if St. Louis would be less expensive? Also, shorter winters… a big plus if you ask me!
 
Reading this thread is like going into the twilight zone. My mom is terribly manipulative and my dad refuses to see it. We suspect she may have health problems but she refuses to see a doctor of any kind. Everybody needs counseling but her. Most of my life, there has always been at least one child estranged from the family. Thank goodness, I am not currently on my mother’s ‘hit’ list. Once you get on mom’s bad side, there is no going back. She tells everybody in the world about you and your problem that got you estranged in the first place…which can range from her not liking a boyfriend to her accusing you of being a drunk or whatever she feels you have done wrong. The sad thing is that she can forgive my brother (the only son) who is in prison. He had his probation revoked which he was on for shooting at the family to “scare” them. She was also able to forgive him for molesting me and my middle sister. For some reason, she cannot forgive my oldest sister. I am not even sure what she did to gain mother’s wrath. I cannot even talk to my mom about my oldest sister or I get treated like a weirdo. She has tried to turn my oldest daughter against her aunt by making negative remarks in her presence which she denies. Anyway, I could go on forever. I had to lay down the law and tell my mom that she could not say anything about my sister when my kids are around. It is up to them decide who they like in the family. I told her to pretend that my sister does not exist because I do not want to hear anything bad about her. I absolutely adore my sister and think my mom is absolutely nuts. I know not to ruffle mom’s feathers. It could be said that she is manipulating me but I know what is fact and fiction and I am not going to let anything she says interfere with the way I run my family. I have apologized to her when I know for a fact she is in the wrong and having another one her “episodes” of irrationality. I just have to repeat to myself that God knows what is true. He knows both of our hearts and we will both have to answer for that. Of course, I also have to repeat “Honor thy mother and father” over and over again. God gave me these parents whether I wanted them or not. It is definitely not an easy road to follow. I haven’t been able to have a party for my children where all of the family could be present. It is difficult to explain this to my kids but we do the best we can. Oh, only having one car gives you a great excuse as to why she has to come see the baby in your home on your terms 😃 We only have one car now and it really gives me an excuse to not do so much with mom.

BTW, I moved back to my home town after grad school to be close to my family and this is what I came home to. I never realized how bad things were when we were kids. I guess you have to gloss over it in order to live with it. I am just now coming to grips with the fact that a family member molested me but mom and dad still made me wash his clothes, cook his dinner, and help take care of him. (He was perfectly able to do everything for himself.) I am still expected to write him letters and visit him in prison.

I will pray for you…I feel your pain.
 
continued from above…I forgot to add that both my sisters have had to deal with Children’s Protective Services in our area. The odd coincidence is that neither sister was doing what mom wanted at the time. Mom and dad both vehemenently deny that they had anything to do with it. :confused: This is one more reason that I try to be compliant without letting them run our lives. I do whatever I have to in order to keep them happy. I could not stand the thought of having to go through what my sisters did. It was pure hell for them.

Moving away might create more problems and animosity. We have discussed moving away but we always come to the conclusion that it won’t do us much good. Mom will still take every opportunity to tell me every bad thing that is going on and how bad I have made her life by moving. She will subtly manipulate even at a distance. Even if she doesn’t talk to you directly, you still have siblings and a dad. I didn’t realize it at the time but that is what she did even when I lived a distance away…that is why I came back…subtle manipulation on her part.

I am really done this time. I just had to add my two cents because your situation is so similar to my family of origin.
 
I’ve been watching your thread trying to think of some good advice for you. Many posters have done a wonderful job of doing that. Definately document everything.

I have dealt with a irrational, manipulative, controling mother since my early teens when my mom basically lost it after my sister died of cancer. My dad says she was that way before that, basically since the beginning of their marriage. My mom’s sister is actually worse so I believe it. I just didn’t see it as a young child.

My sister got sick when I was almost 11 and she died when I was 13. My mom spent alot of time away from home during that period becuase the hospital was over an hour away. I think in my mom’s case I didn’t see it because at 11 I was just starting to develope my own individuality but up until then I pretty much did and said whatever my mom wanted. When she came back home after my sister’s death I was 13 and had no inclination to let her micro-manage my life. I mean up until my sister got sick my mom was still laying out clothes for me to wear to school. She was already devistated by my sister’s death and now she thought my dad “had turned me against her.”

Since I’m the only living child we don’t have alot of the drama that comes with the pitting sibling against each other ect. But she does try to turn me against my dad on a regular basis. My mom has a Dr. Jackle/ Mr. Hyde personality. She can be so kind, and generous and sweet, and then turn around and be insensitive, venomous and paranoid.

I worry because our daughter is ten and get much more independant and has opinions of her own. I can already see my mom getting a little aggitated by that but nothing like what I’d dealt with as a kid. I warned my dad he’d better bring our daughter home immediately if my mom goes into one of her episodes and flips out or the **** is going to hit the fan.

My parents would never go so far as to take me to court. But I also can’t see myself moving away because I am the only child, and they are in their mid/late 70’s. So I just do the best I can. She’s not always awful, she go a long time being very nice but something rubs her the wrong way and she just blows up, and once that happens it can go on for days or even weeks.

As I was reading some of the other posts that related similar storys with mothers I have to wonder what in the world happens to us as women that we would turn on our children like that or feel entitled to control their lives as adults. I have a friend who’s the youngest of 6 and she has the same family drama with her mother. Right now her mother isn’t talking to her because my friend had he bother over and the mother isn’t talking to the brother so apparently she’s not allowed to either.

I feel bad that your going through epecially when this should be such a joyous time with your baby on the way. I’ll keep you in my prayers.
 
Wow. I’ve been reading through this thread with interest. A recurring theme of manipulative/toxic mothers, who didn’t seem so when we were kids seems to be dominant. My theory on this is that when we’re kids, we EXPECT our parents to be in charge of what we do. As we get older, and more independent, then the maniulative/micromanager type parent starts to lose control. That’s when all of the weird, manipulative personality traits kick in—in high gear. Things like shunning the offending kid, telling everyone in the family and elsewhere how “terrible” offending kid is, pitting siblings against each other, etc.

In ConcernCatholics post, she mentioned that her mother seems so forgiving, etc. of the brother who is in prison. Well, this brother’s misbehavior (in the mom’s mind) clearly represents a “failure” on her part. So, she needs to gloss over what he’s done–telling everyone to forgive him and not judge him, etc. However, the “good” kids are treated terribly because they are not doing what the mother wants them to do. By telling everyone how horrible she’s being treated, she is getting mucho attention (something this type of personality NEEDS!!). Yet, by all standards, the “good” kids are a “success” for the mom. So, she “wins” with the attention, and with the “success” she has for raising such “good” kids.

I hope that makes sense. I just felt compelled to jump in and add my observations. It seems Abby is experiencing the same things with her Mom. These personality traits were there when Abby was young, but somehow, due to maturity level, age, whatever, they were not as evident. Then, she went away, grew up, got married, is having a baby, and Mom still expects to be able to control and manipulate in the same ways as when Abby was a teen.

Let’s just pray none of us do the same to our children!!!
 
No one, child or in-law, should ever feel held hostage by their family of origin or their spouse’s family of origin. If these feelings of tension are present, an expectation needs to be established early on that your autonomy and independence will be respected or else. Do not let fear motivate your actions or your responses to someone else. That in itself is harmful to you.

When I read some of these posts, I see that many allow their families of origin to have too much influence, control, and power over your adult lives. Even if you’re an only child and your parent(s) have one foot in the grave, you do not owe your abusive parents dedication and devotion. Forgiveness and respect, yes, but you shouldn’t plan your life around taking care of them in their old age at the expense of your mental and spiritual wellbeing. Keep these parents, siblings, aunts, and uncles away from you and especially from your children. Family gatherings, special holidays, etc are not worth the trade off, because they aren’t the “Norman Rockwell” holidays that all of us hope for. You can establish important holiday traditions with friends instead of family. Their are boatloads of people in this situation (toxic family) who would truly appreciate the company of friends during the holidays. If the people in your family aren’t true Christians, but instead living a life filled with lies, get them out of your life.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top