This is almost a novel, but if you could advise...thanks

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First, I have to say I am so grateful for all of your posts, advice, insights, etc. They are really invaluable.

I spoke to my brother in Iraq again (the lone voice of reason in my family). I asked him if I’ve been living in complete denial for my entire life or if Mom has always been this way. He thought for a minute and then he said, “Well, you’ve never REALLY been around, though, have you?” And I was like, What do you mean by that? And he was like, “Well, the minute Mom and Dad found out you had a brain at a young age, all your time was spent working to jump grade levels or being shuttled to activities to ‘develop talents’ and half the time you were so busy, I don’t think you interacted with Mom and Dad the same way that the rest of us did.” So that was sort of an interesting insight. He was like, “I don’t think you really made Mom mad until you were suddenly miss independent and able to go off to college at a young age, excited and happy and then doing well by yourself, even when they decided you were randomly going to have to pay for college on your own. That was supposed to slow you down, but it didn’t.” I was like, hmm. He also went onto say that she would occasionally mention that I was an ungrateful brat who didn’t recognize “all that she had given me” by forcing me to race through school. (Nevermind the endless fights we had about me not WANTING to race through school.) She was really big on me working “to my potential.” But, when it came time and I was done with high school and two years of comm college early, she WAS really mad that I was more than happy to run off to college and finish what she had made me start. If that makes sense? My brother was like," it was almost as if she really wanted you to bow down to her as the person who created you and who could therefore control you, but instead you didn’t even give her the chance and just left town for ten years…" She was also mad about me moving across the country and then switching cities a few times, too.

So basically my early life was working like a maniac and then the second half was college/life on my own, away from all of them. Except that I would come home to visit and my siblings would come see me, but my mother never did, actually. But she would talk to me on the phone and everything SEEMED fine…

I think my delusion was that I allowed myself to think that she honestly cared for my welfare and that’s why she would freak out when I did things like give away everything I owned and drive across the country, pick a place to live near wherever I had a job and then re-furnish my apartment. It didn’t seem to matter to me that it wasn’t the way SHE would do it; it was just what worked for me and I could see that she wanted to help me? Or maybe control me, because usually she would decide not to speak to me for a little while.

My brother also pointed out the difference in discipline. I would get grounded for things like forgetting to return the ice pack to the freezer because it showed how lazy and insensitive I was toward the rest of the members of our household. My brother, however, is 18 months younger than me and rarely ever had a curfew, would come home smelling of alcohol, obviously having been at a party, and my mom would come down and fix him a late dinner at 2am. If I was three minutes past midnight, I was grounded the following weekend. My brother says that I was held to the standard of perfection and any slip was seen as open rebellion. But since he was merely the fun, super joker, sports player, party guy…my parents did not hold him to the same standards at all.

My husband has pointed out to me that all my siblings have maintained a certain level of being dependent on my parents, and I haven’t been dependent on them in any way, shape or form since I left ten years ago. My brother, for instance, gets all the free child care for his baby. My sisters get things like their cell phones paid for by Dad or one sister (the one we call the enslaved favorite) who eats dinner over there EVERY single night. The spoiled/pretty one is dependent on them in some ways because she gets money from them all the time to buy whatever she wants from Nordstrom. I have never accepted anything from my parents monetarily or materially with the exception of most of my wedding being paid for by them. (Which I ended up hearing again and again that THEY were hosting and what I wanted was of minimal importance in some regards.) My husband thinks it originally burned my mom that I didn’t “need” her for things or happiness or security several years ago, and so now…when I’m living here and about to embark on something I don’t know how to do yet (parenthood)…there is some sort of weird glee about slamming the door shut in my face when I need help (like a trip to the ER). She DID apparently go on and on about my audacity to inconvenience her by asking for that ride (literally a ten minute trip up the street).
 
Oh Abby! There’s nothing like becoming a parent to help you see who your own parents really are. As the years pass, you parentss flaws will seem bigger as you strive to do the best for your children and you begin to wonder why in the world your parents couldn’t do better by you or your sibs. The only thing that you can depend on is Christ to help you and your husband be the best parents to your precious child.
 
I feel completely lost as to how to handle this whole situation or even understand it. Even with professional training, I cannot view my family objectively or understand what my actions should be. My mother’s venomous behavior is not who I remember and not the person I have loved all these years. My dad’s behavior is equally puzzling but I think it has to do with him being in denial of what is really going on and not wanting to alienate my mother from him, too. And in many ways, I understand because I would not forsake my husband to choose my children either. He did say over email that he knows this isn’t right but that he can’t abandon my mother.
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Wow.
Near as I can tell the situation is alot simpler than it appears. What makes is complicated are the psychological ramifications, but that can be remedied with good Catholic counseling. (Yeah, I know, I’m always advocating counseling, but that’s because when life gets really complicated good counselors can help us through them - and I truly believe God sends us these counselors as His helpers, so not going to them seems to be refusing God’s assistance.)

Anyway, here’s why it looks ‘simple’ to me:

a. Your mother in all likelihood is suffering from Alzheimers. It is extremely exhausting to keep having to remind yourself of that in order to shake away the odd behavior, but it is what needs to be done. An Alzheimer’s support group is definitely needed for you and your husband so that you two can learn more about this illness, how to respond to it, and more importantly, how to teach your children about it so that they can still love grandma despite the bitterness flying around.

b. Your father, being the best husband he can be, has to stay true to her over the kids, including you. While you cognitively understand and appreciate that, emotionally, it’s killing you. Again, Alzheimers support therapy should help you look at this entire situation from a less ‘personal’ perspective. Perhaps your father can attend a few sessions with you some day.

c. You siblings, well, personally, I’d like to scold them but I cannot because they, too, have no clue how devastating Alzheimer’s is and so they are probably reacting emotionally and personally rather than objectively. Pray for them, and perhaps, after you’ve been in the support group long enough and find it beneficial, you might invite them to join you.

d. You. You came home expecting an entirely different situation than what you are facing. Without the ‘heads up’ to your mother’s condition, you were unable to brace yourself for this, and this rude awakening has thrown you for a major loop - not to mention having to cope with pregnancy hormones.

So, bottom line, much of your trouble is directly related to your mother’s condition. The sooner you learn everything you can about that, you establish the support you and your family need to get them through the long haul (this can go on for years, and it will only get worse), and you work on your personal emotional reactions to this reality (that’s going to be tough, trust me - the dreams you had about raising your children surrounded by a loving supportive famly have been shattered by the Alzheimers, that takes some major adjusting), the sooner you will be able to help your mother, your father, and your children endure this cross your family has been given to bear.

Of course, pray, pray, pray as well. But truly, take the focus off the day-to-day insults, rude behaviors, reactions - and keep your eye on the bigger picture here: Alzheimers, and you can get through this in charity and with grace.
 
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Cupofkindness:
When I read some of these posts, I see that many allow their families of origin to have too much influence, control, and power over your adult lives. Even if you’re an only child and your parent(s) have one foot in the grave, you do not owe your abusive parents dedication and devotion. Forgiveness and respect, yes, but you shouldn’t plan your life around taking care of them in their old age at the expense of your mental and spiritual wellbeing. Keep these parents, siblings, aunts, and uncles away from you and especially from your children. Family gatherings, special holidays, etc are not worth the trade off, because they aren’t the “Norman Rockwell” holidays that all of us hope for. You can establish important holiday traditions with friends instead of family. Their are boatloads of people in this situation (toxic family) who would truly appreciate the company of friends during the holidays. If the people in your family aren’t true Christians, but instead living a life filled with lies, get them out of your life.
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This is exactly my issue with staying here. Now that God is granting me all these ephiphanies about my mother and family dynamics that have been in play for all these years, with or without me fully interacting, I don’t want anything to do with it. Furthermore, while my mom has always had her manipulative side or whatever is wrong with her, there IS a change in the way she speaks to me and other people around her. I do believe there is something very medically wrong with her, but I don’t believe it is my duty to stick around and be her punching bag in the meantime while she refuses to get help and people around her are willing to let her pretend it’s normal.

We left my husband’s family because they were so controlling, but truly they were abusive and we both came to a point of complete intolerance.

Last night my husband and I made our decision. We don’t feel we can leave yet without putting a serious dent in some career goals of my husband’s. He feels he needs another year and a half in this area, or else his resume will have a weakness in it that he doesn’t want. However, he agrees we are NOT going to stay in this apartment past our lease being up (in July) and that we’ll move an hour away, cross the state border and live 30 minutes or longer from where he works now–just in the opposite direction. We will then discern if living that distance from my parents is something that can really work, or if we need to leave here altogether and start fresh in another city. This also gives me time to have the baby and use the next year or so to research where would be best for us.

Part of me is still fighting the anxiety about staying here in any proportion, but I don’t want to jeopardize my husband and nor my little family, either, by making a move unprepared. I am worried about being in any somewhat close proximity to them because of the legal ramifications. My dad is a member of the bar in the state we’ll be living in and does practice there as well and does have a good reputation.

I don’t know how we’ll handle the baptism or the birth announcement itself, etc., because I know that’s when all the fun and games will begin with having to discern what to do. However, I think it’s fair to expect that I will not even consider my mother mosying over here to see the baby without first discussing with me the issue at hand.

Meanwhile, I think I’m going to wait until after Christmas, but I need to find a counselor to sort some of this through. I am not objective about my family and I have a lot of fear and anxiety surrounding the baby’s arrival and my mother’s threats of having access to her. Plus just the disillusionment of recognizing that my expectations fell completely flat in coming here and the life we had anticipated in this area is not happening.
 
YYM,

Honestly what’s killing me now is the shock of wondering if it’s ALWAYS been this way and I distanced myself because of it, or if there’s always been an element of controlling behavior and now my mother’s early Alzheimer’s is making it intolerable. I do think it’s the latter, but it’s tough to see clearly because the little manipulations and controlling efforts from the past were things I didn’t focus on. I trusted myself, I knew what I wanted, I went after it and kept her informed all the while–so I didn’t think there was a problem.

Right now I don’t think I can handle becoming an expert at Alzheimers because I don’t want to be her advocate. She is treating me like shiste and I don’t have the physical or emotional energy to fight whichever siblings come to her defense AND my father about it. They apparently want to live in the twilight zone and pretend that her behavior is acceptable and normal. I’m tired of the drama and I literally do not want to involve myself further. I do think she needs serious help but meanwhile she will keep deluding herself that all her actions are perfectly normal–mainly because my sister (the enslaved favorite) and my father reassure her it’s so.

I think the battles I will have to concentrate on will be in the future, after the baby is born and all the suppostions that will be made about us moving an hour away. There are good, legitimate reasonings, such as being closer to my husband’s work, etc., but her mindset now is that everything is about her. And yes, this decision happens to be largely about her!!! 🙂 But, for instance, me calling her to go to the ER is not a backhanded way of inconveniencing her. My little sister in college needing money for food on the weekends is not a leech just because the dining hall isn’t open on the weekends. My brother asking her to stop using his savings to pay off in full every debt he happens to have, just because he gave my parents power of attorney while he’s gone, is not an attempt to control her, it’s him saying please don’t make me broke while I’m out fighting a war!

The insanity has just reached a pitch where I despise it and I’m not doing anything besides preparing myself for whatever battle is in the future and/or supporting the siblings that are on the Villain list.

I did call my sister the enslaved favorite yesterday and she reacted with such venom for me even suggesting there might be something medically wrong with Mom. (And keep in mind she participated in the discussion that Mom clearly had symptoms of early Alzheimers.) “If anyone’s sick, it’s you! Mom and Dad will die someday and you’ll have to look back and remember that you killed them by being who you are! How dare you move back into town and ruin our lives! You’ve always been so perfect and really you just hate all of us, don’t you! You are killing our Mother! You are ruining our family! Why can’t you just accept that Mom doesn’t have time for your emergencies!” etc Oh, and the funny part was that she even used the line my brother told me Mom has said about me for so many years: “Mom has done so much for you since the day you were born and now that you have it all, you have no respect whatsoever!”

I was like, okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkay!

Enough is enough.
 
My husband thinks it originally burned my mom that I didn’t “need” her for things or happiness or security several years ago, and so now…when I’m living here and about to embark on something I don’t know how to do yet (parenthood)…there is some sort of weird glee about slamming the door shut in my face when I need help (like a trip to the ER). She DID apparently go on and on about my audacity to inconvenience her by asking for that ride (literally a ten minute trip up the street).
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Well, if your mother has Alzheimers whatever deep-seeded emotions she has about your independence will be thrown at you full-barrell without regard for how it’ll affect you, so you might want to brace yourself for that.

If she does not have Alzheimers and this is just the result of your entire life experience/relationship with her, then at least you know now, where your mother’s coming from. Doesn’t make it right, but at least you can begin to see things from her perspective. The only way I can see beginning to break down the wall she’s built up is if you sincerely sat down with her one day and told her everything she’s been waiting to hear: That you are as happy as you are because of her and the way she motivated you, etc., etc. and then you’d have to say something about regretting the move for ten years, and so on.

Yet I don’t see how you can do that and mean it. Your life has been your life all these years. To suddenly give all credit to her would take a major overhaul on your part - moreso than the overhaul needed to begin accepting your mother for the way she is, complete with the resentment she has toward you - and then readjusting your dreams which were wrapped around this loving ideal of a mother.

The thing is, you can find a way to readjust your expectations of what this move was supposed to bring into your life. It’s a shame it’s necessary, but not impossible to do. You’ll be ok because you are not alone. You are a faithful woman who walks with Christ.
 
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Princess_Abby:
Honestly what’s killing me now is the shock of wondering if it’s ALWAYS been this way and I distanced myself because of it, or if there’s always been an element of controlling behavior and now my mother’s early Alzheimer’s is making it intolerable.
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Survival tip #1: Don’t go there. The past is the past. If this is Alzheimers there’s no connection between the past and the present…you’ll drive yourself nuts trying to find one.
Right now I don’t think I can handle becoming an expert at Alzheimers because I don’t want to be her advocate.
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The Alzheimer support group isn’t about becoming her advocate, it’s about you learning how to deflect all the negative stuff you’re about to be exposed to for years. It will help you understand why the others resign themselves to living in the Twilight Zone so that you don’t harbor anger and resentment towards them for doing so. It’s all about helping you cope with the madness around you and thus helping your children survive it as well.
I think the battles I will have to concentrate on will be in the future, after the baby is born and all the suppostions that will be made about us moving an hour away. There are good, legitimate reasonings, such as being closer to my husband’s work, etc., but her mindset now is that everything is about her. And yes, this decision happens to be largely about her!!! 🙂
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You’re still talking about her as if she is a rational person when it comes to you, in control of her feelings, in control of her responses to you. If it’s Alzheimer’s she isn’t. If it isn’t Alzheimer’s then there’s no reason to expect her to suddenly change her entire demeanor. She won’t be happy with your move, but she won’t be suprised either. She’ll chalk it up to all the other ‘bratty’ things you’ve done over the years…so the best you can do is continue to live your live for you and your husband/child, in Christ and with Christ.
The insanity has just reached a pitch where I despise it and I’m not doing anything besides preparing myself for whatever battle is in the future and/or supporting the siblings that are on the Villain list.
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Right, but running away or ignoring the matter isn’t going to help you either. All of this you’ve faced in recent months will continue to fester deep inside and it will eat you alive if you don’t find a way to come to terms with it and let it go (the let it go is the real hurdle).
Enough is enough.
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I agree. But the enough doesn’t apply to your mother and your siblings/father…it needs to apply to you…what are you going to do to turn your mindset around so that you can continue to love your family as it endures this cross handed to them? As a Catholic your obligation is to find a way to love them in charity and Christ despite the trash they throw in your direction. You can really benefit from counseling geared specifically toward being the daughter of someone suffering with Alzheimers, it will help you. Through the support group you will see for yourself that there are others who are going through even worst grief than you, enduring worse attacks, and you will find you are not alone in being the target of something like this.

I think the move will be a good thing for you. Apparently you are outnumbered in your family, more of them want you to stay away than are willing to welcome you home. Such a rejection is difficult to take at any time, but when you were most looking forward to their support because of your child, it’s even harder. Pray to Our Lord that you do not harbor resentment toward them for their insecurities. Ask Him to lessen those insecurities so that some day they will invite you back.
 
Abby–I’ll say a prayer for you. Ahhh families…

I think I can relate a little bit–I grew up with a very controlling father who had lots of “issues” and I still wonder about his mental capabilities. He and my mother divorced when I was in college and he disowned me and my brothers and sister for sticking by my mom (who divorced him for physical and emotional abuse). I have tried and tried over the years ( I have also lived away from my family since I left for college) to have some kind of relationship with him, but I ended up getting hurt over and over. After 10 years of this, I have finally come to a point where I am ok about not having a relationship with him. I think the clarity came after I had children. I did still kind of feel like something was missing and he should know his grandchildren (he has never met them–I haven’t seen him in 10 years) but I think I just came to the realization that I would never want to subject my children to the hurt he put me through, and I know he is capable of that. We just stick with the family who love us and we are happy with that. I realize this is hard to do, especially if you live in the same city, but perhaps you can just put some distance there by separating your lives as much as possible, until you all can move to another area, which does sound like a good idea to me!

It is so hard to deal with family relationships like this. Good idea to go to counseling. Just try to distance yourself a bit emotionally until then. And if it is possible, pray for her and pray for help in forgiveness. Hard to forgive when the other person is not asking for forgiveness but it is necessary to move on.

God bless you!
 
This thread seems to resonate especially with women, perhaps because such issues with our own family of origin become more apparent when we become parents and must decide how we will be similar to or different from our own mother.

Princess Abby, you are very hurt and angry with your family and with your husband’s family. You also seem to be jealous of your brother’s girlfriend and the attention she gets from your mother. It seems your anger is targeted mostly at the women in your life. You seem to be a very direct and even confrontational person, and you seem to respond to your crises by “escaping”. You also seem to be a very caring, loving, and prayerful person. Your emotions are probably heightened by all those hormones due to your pregnancy.

You probably should find a good Catholic counselor to help you with these issues. Until you find someone, you should refrain from having discussing these problems with your sisters, your brother, other family members, or family friends. When the battle lines get drawn in big families, everyone just passes on information and ratchets up the anger and hurt. So you are just playing into this situation.

You don’t say what your “professional training” is. Perhaps you know more about your mother’s medical situation than you have posted on this thread. But consider the possibility that she does not have Alzheimer’s (or dementia). For example, she may have cognitive decline due to hormone imbalances (caused by menopause or just aging) or she could have a thyroid imbalance which is very common in older women and causes memory problems until it is treated. In any case, it serves no purpose for you to believe she has Alzheimer’s when that has not been diagnosed medically by her own doctors.
 
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Cupofkindness:
Even if you’re an only child and your parent(s) have one foot in the grave, you do not owe your abusive parents dedication and devotion.
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Since I get the feeling this was comment is related to my post I thought I should respond. I’ve come to realize that most of us don’t live ideal situations. My mother has mental problems. I tried going to counseling with my mom when our daughter was a baby because we had a blow out fight and weren’t speaking to each other.

I learned a lot about my mom in those sessions even though she is completely unreachable as far as making any changes, and absolutely will not accept responsibility for anything.

My mom lived in Italy through world war II and saw alot of scary things as a child. She moved to America and left her fiance in Italy, whom she was definately very in love with (and still keeps a picture of in her purse no less -50 years later) because *her mother wanted her to. *My grandmother was already here. My dad was the first guy my mom dated in America, and even though he knew, he didn’t tell my mother he could not have children until after they were married and had been trying for a baby for sometime. Basically because he feared she wouldn’t marry him. My sister, the first child they adopted had cancer at 18 mo and they thought she was going to die but she survived; me- the second child they adoptedwas diagnosed with a life-threatening heart condition at 7 mo and my mom was told I would die -obviously that didn’t happen either.

My mom and my sister were very close ( and I was daddy’s little girl). At 19 my sister got cancer again and died at 21.I was still daddy’s girl and my mom had lost her best friend. My parents marriage fell apart due to my mom’s breakdown and my dad has control issues of his own. Sometimes I think he shoots himself in the foot with the kinds of things he does and says with regards to my mom. My parents don’t believe in divorce so about 8 years ago my dad went out and bought a second house to get some peace away from my mom when things are really bad. There’s much more to the story but I’ve already high-jacked Abby’s thread enough.

The basic point of this whole long story is mom, at 78, is living a life of massive regret and bitterness. It is too late for her to change anything and she so wishes she would have done things differently.

As far as cutting them off it’s not so simple. They have a fantastic relationship with our daughter-she adores them, and even though my dad and I butt heads we are still very close. They do things with our daughter they we could never afford, and half the time I’m too sick or tired to do anyway because my heart problem and other health issues. My husband’s parents are only a little over an hour away but we see them only a few times a year, and they don’t show the same kind of interest in our daughter. He has no siblings either.

My parents are there to take care of our daughter whenever I’m in the hospital. And they helped us countless times over the years including taking me to the Mayo clinic and paying for all food and lodgeing so that my husband wouldn’t have to take time off of work-something we couldn’t afford at the time. When my mother isn’t crazy she’s a good mom, so it isn’t so easy to just say “cut them out of your life”. When she flips out it’s awful but she doesn’t drive and I live 1/2 hr away so I can get away from her if I have to. I feel sorry for my mom. I got married at 18 partly because of my sister’s death so young; I had decided I would not live my life based on what other people wanted. I would not live the what ifs? that now plague my mom. It is obvious to my mom that my husband adores me and we have a great relationship. She says things to me that make me believe she is jealous of me. And she has had a rough life.

Things are not quite so black and white for most of us.

(Sorry Abby - didn’t mean to hijack your thread.)
 
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Cupofkindness:
Oh Abby! There’s nothing like becoming a parent to help you see who your own parents really are. As the years pass, you parentss flaws will seem bigger as you strive to do the best for your children and you begin to wonder why in the world your parents couldn’t do better by you or your sibs. The only thing that you can depend on is Christ to help you and your husband be the best parents to your precious child.
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Abby, there is much wisdom in CupofKindness’s post!

My heart goes out to you; my prayers are with you as you and your husband discern the proper path.

I want to contribute a more thoughtful reply; however, I only have time to post the first thing that pops to mind, which you surely already have considered (especially after having sorted through the whole situation with your in-laws.) But if you haven’t done so yet, maybe revisiting the CCC’s instruction about families will provide some food for thought or prayer or discussion with your husband, or all three? 🙂
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a4.htm

The commandment is that we honor our mother and father. There are many ways to keep this commandment, and sometimes the way we’ve done so our whole lives is no longer appropriate & we have to learn new ways of doing so. (I’ve always found it intriguing that the command is not “love” thy mother and father but “honor.” Interesting…)

Hang in there. Hopefully you’re hanging on to a sense of humor, and maybe giving yourself permission to take a break from pondering everything? (Maybe a movie night w/hubby is due, or something fun for you both? Belly laughs are great for babies-in-utero!😛 )
 
If you told her doctor that she used to be sweet, no wonder he thought she had Alzheimer’s! Again… dementia is the loss of previously attained mental abilities. If she’s always been this way, then while she might well have neuroses or other mental issues, but they wouldn’t be defined as dementia. A neusosis doesn’t immunize against Alzheimer’s, so somebody should keep an eye on her, but let your other siblings be the judge.

I had another idea. Call your local child protective services and tell them that you are pregnant with your first child, in a stable, happy marriage, and taking care of yourself, but your parents are threatening to call the state on you if you don’t follow Grandma’s will with regards to their relationship with your family. Tell them you are worried, that you have heard horror stories about grandmothers doing what she is threatening to do (especially when grandpa is a good attorney), that you are not even sure that your relatively young mother is even mentally stable based on some of her recent efforts to manipulate you, and ask if they have any advice. As this is the kind of nonsense that wastes their resources and takes attention away from kids who truly are in bad situations, they just might. This cannot be that rare. I could see where they might even enjoy heading your mom off at the pass.

I’m sure you are praying for your mom and dad… can you imagine what it is like to live like that, thinking you need to control everything and having no healthy way to cope when you inevitably find that you can’t? There would be never be any peace in an attitude like that. It exhausts me to think about it.

And yet God gave her a daughter who is so able that when threatened with independence, she actually took it and liked it! A girl who took over-discipline and became self-disciplined. A girl who is smart as a whip and yet too thick to realize it when she’s getting the silent treatment! What a sense of humor He has! Try to have a sense of humor with Him. Take the advice of Kirk Douglas, stroke victim, from his book “My Stroke of Luck”. Laughing is by far the best medicine, when what you want to do is cry.
 
Well, I don’t consider getting counseling to be running away from the issues or ignoring it. I am hoping it will help me let go of the disillusionment I’m feeling, and I feel confident it will. 🙂 But in the meantime, dealing with people who aren’t necessarily willing to see reality (such as two siblings and my father and mother) isn’t going to solve anything. I’m sure counseling will at least help me sort out the best plan of action, and I think staying here for another year and a half is certainly adequate time to discern if this is a healthy place for my baby, husband and I in the future. If it’s not, or it isn’t what we want, then we will leave.

Before we left the east, we spent a year in counseling discussing in detail my husband’s family with a Catholic therapist. This particular therapist happens to be the man who does psychological evaluations for Fr. Corapi’s order (the men who want to join). We trusted his judgement and his expertise, especially when he told us leaving the area where the inlaws lived would be the most helpful thing for both our marriage and future family. We discerned this in prayer as well and acted accordingly. I do believe that I am here for a reason, even if I am not meant to stay. Clearly I am learning all sorts of things by being here and all of it I consider valuable. I have yet to be convinced that leaving OR staying in the area is the most appropriate decision this time around, but I think I’m allowed to have some anxiety and frustration after walking into the twilight zone! 🙂 Right now we live in the southern most part of the metro area, and we’ll just be moving to the northern most area so we aren’t living ten minutes from the asylum (aka my parents’ house).

The siblings I’ve always been closest to have been my brother, the joker, and my youngest sister, the baby. My brother is in Iraq and my sister is away at college for the time being. When she returns, she’ll be dependent upon my parents financially and for housing until she earns enough money for autonomy. My brother, being half a world away, isn’t exactly able to be involved in family dynamics. Aside from that, he is entangled with my parents due to the child care they provide my little neice. My mother has also set it up now that he won’t have any savings when he returns, so he will be even more indebted to my parents as he relies further on them for childcare while he works like a maniac to get where he wants to be going: getting engaged, married and moving away for a specific job opportunity that is basically waiting for him. So, the two other little “Villains” in the family aren’t around at the moment. 🙂

I did move here with expectations but as Island Oak said in the very beginning of this thread, nothing I’ve done is irreversible. My husband and I have always taken time to discern our actions and I feel certain we’re allowing ourselves time to do so now, to determine where we belong. I think getting a counselor to worth through everything is a smart and balanced approach. As is having a time limit and not just living here endlessly without a plan.
 
And yes, I am jealous of the way my mom treats my brother’s girlfriend. My mother has called her the replacement daughter, in reference to me. It’s deliberately hurtful and I did not appreciate it. When I told her it was hurtful, she amended her phrase to calling J “the fifth daughter” and explained “oh I was just referring to the fact you don’t live here! haha!” like it was supposed to be funny. And yes, it does make me mad (and hurt) that she was so thrilled at my brother’s girlfriend’s unmarried, unplanned pregnancy and now can’t be bothered to be happy over my first baby in marriage. I don’t begrudge what my mom has given J, but I would like my mom to be excited for me in the way that most grandmothers usually are. I don’t think my feelings are unwarranted or unusual, but I would still like to let go of the expectations so I’m no longer disappointed.

As an aside, though, I do have a good relationship with my brother’s girlfriend. J and I see each other frequently and she is fun to spend time with. I don’t like the interplay between she and my mother (both manipulating the other to get things they want), but that is between them.

Just to explain my one particular sister who I keep calling the enslaved favorite (my brother coined that phrase). She is by far the most unbalanced and unhealthy person amongst my siblings. This sister has never been to college, works a menial job and is extremely jealous of my education. I don’t care that she hasn’t gone to college, SHE’s the one who cares that she didn’t go. She’s been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and a mood disorder. She does not accept treatment for either issue and instead self-medicates with the use of ephedra and alcohol. She is drunk frequently and excuses this as being “the time in her life” where partying is allowed. Since she was a small child, she’s been obsessed with the idea that my parents might die unexpectedly and they somehow won’t know how much she’s loved them. So she feels it necessary to constantly prove her devotion to them by agreeing with them unequivocally. She is very approval-oriented when it comes to my parents and hides things to the point of being ridiculous so they won’t find out she does this or that. She (wrongly) considers herself to be “the glue” that holds the family together. She’s somewhat close to another sister, but her main attachment is to my parents and they mutually validate each other. A week before all this hit the fan with my mother, she came to me and said she was struggling with feeling really depressed and she was “so happy” I moved back in town. She’s the one who insisted on planning the baby shower. Then, everything switched when there was conflict between me and Mom. The mood thing is so common with her though that it isn’t surprising whatsoever and it’s often been this way with her. It was my mother’s behavior that surprised me, not my sister’s. She and I have not been close and while we’ve had plenty of good times over the years, I know what to expect from her.

Last night we celebrated my husband’s birthday with a Neil Diamond concert. He’s 26 but has a bizarre taste in music. 🙂 Dancing with him in the aisles (think spirit fingers) and seeing eighty year old women in sparkly dresses hit on him was quite hilarious. But it also reminded me that life goes on despite or in spite of the people related to us. He and I have a wonderful time together wherever we are and there is just so much more to life than focusing on the bad things and the disappointments. I care about my family but I care more about my husband and baby. Being healthy for their sake is my goal. I don’t feel healthy being in the midst of this chaos or trying to fix what isn’t mine to fix. If I had know this was going on, we would not have moved here. But God allowed it for a reason and I will explore why both in therapy and prayer. I’m going to get counseling, we’ll move closer to my husband’s work, and we’ll pray and discern what God has in store for us.

Thanks for everyone’s advice!
 
WOW! This sounds so familiar! PA, I had “special talents” as a child and was shuttled from here to there by mom also. How did I reward her for all that she did for me? I moved very far away. She hasn’t been the same since, and rarely visits - once per year if I am lucky. Yes, I was pigeon holed as a child as the “good” child, the “over achiever.” When I moved, they were shocked, I owed my parents by staying in the same town. In the meantime my 3 siblings could move, be mean, do whatever they wanted with instant excuses and forgiveness for their behavior. Unfortunately my frustration with my parents came out over time in a huge blow up with my dad, which was my fault. I basically let out all of my feelings I have had since adulthood, in a not so nice screaming match. I have since confessed and been forgiven for dishonoring my parents, but my parents pretty much dispise me now. My advice, don’t wait too long, get away while you can, love them from a distance. Be wary of their games and don’t play. Be the better person. Take care of your growing family, they are your main responsibility - if you get too involved with your parents/siblings, who will take care of your kids? I know this is difficult, of all the people in the world you thought would love and take care of you, they can’t or won’t. I am working through this myself and know it is not easy. You are in my prayers abby.
 
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BLB_Oregon:
If you told her doctor that she used to be sweet, no wonder he thought she had Alzheimer’s! Again… dementia is the loss of previously attained mental abilities. If she’s always been this way, then while she might well have neuroses or other mental issues, but they wouldn’t be defined as dementia. A neusosis doesn’t immunize against Alzheimer’s, so somebody should keep an eye on her, but let your other siblings be the judge.

I had another idea. Call your local child protective services and tell them that you are pregnant with your first child, in a stable, happy marriage, and taking care of yourself, but your parents are threatening to call the state on you if you don’t follow Grandma’s will with regards to their relationship with your family. Tell them you are worried, that you have heard horror stories about grandmothers doing what she is threatening to do (especially when grandpa is a good attorney), that you are not even sure that your relatively young mother is even mentally stable based on some of her recent efforts to manipulate you, and ask if they have any advice. As this is the kind of nonsense that wastes their resources and takes attention away from kids who truly are in bad situations, they just might. This cannot be that rare. I could see where they might even enjoy heading your mom off at the pass.

I’m sure you are praying for your mom and dad… can you imagine what it is like to live like that, thinking you need to control everything and having no healthy way to cope when you inevitably find that you can’t? There would be never be any peace in an attitude like that. It exhausts me to think about it.

And yet God gave her a daughter who is so able that when threatened with independence, she actually took it and liked it! A girl who took over-discipline and became self-disciplined. A girl who is smart as a whip and yet too thick to realize it when she’s getting the silent treatment! What a sense of humor He has! Try to have a sense of humor with Him. Take the advice of Kirk Douglas, stroke victim, from his book “My Stroke of Luck”. Laughing is by far the best medicine, when what you want to do is cry.
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I just wanted to clarify that I did not advise the doctor about my mom possibly having Alzheimers’. It was my DAD who privately told me what the doctor said and what he thought. DAD spoke to HIS doctor about it, too. And even though I’ve delved into all the negative stuff from recent history and past hurts, she seriously is remarkably different. As YYM said, I think the controlling behaviors that were previously more subtle are what are coming into full force with whatever is going on with her medically. Whether it’s menopause or dementia or a mood disorder or WHATEVER, there isn’t the sweet side of her that used to be there.

Dad has a whole other list as to why he thinks she has Alzheimers. It has to do with being completely combative about things that are totally unrelated to me or my siblings. And she IS more forgetful; as I said, bringing up the same subject five minutes after finishing it. Talking about doing something in the future and then being unable to remember what time we all agreed to do it–and not just an hour off, but like…the whole time of day being off. He says he began getting concerned when she started spouting off on the Church, seemingly out of nowhere. Lately she’s really tried to engage me in discussions about why priests can’t be married and how it’s so unfair that there aren’t women priests, etc. It’s that sort of behavior that is really off the wall, as she has always been a very conservative thinker and suddenly she wants to go champion these liberal causes. Then when she started going beserk on the youngest sister, then my brother and now me since I’m around…it just all seemed so weird.

By the way, BLB, thank you for all your sensitive comments and wonderful suggestions. I really like the idea of maybe heading everything off to begin with. I think I might talk to a lawyer about that and run it by him or her first.

As it happens, one of my doctors is also one of her doctors. She also happens to be the cantor at our Church and she’s known me since I was a very little girl. I may go talk to her about all of this, too.

And yes I’m trying to see the humor in all of this… 🙂
 
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Princess_Abby:
Just to explain my one particular sister who I keep calling the enslaved favorite (my brother coined that phrase). She is by far the most unbalanced and unhealthy person amongst my siblings… She is very approval-oriented when it comes to my parents and hides things to the point of being ridiculous so they won’t find out she does this or that. She (wrongly) considers herself to be “the glue” that holds the family together. She’s somewhat close to another sister, but her main attachment is to my parents and they mutually validate each other…
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There, but for the grace of God… this is what God has delivered you from. Your personal success and happy marriage, you now see, was totally against the odds. You are a miracle. Your mom may not admit it, but your sister’s plight is what your mom wanted for you: total attachment, on her terms, no matter what the cost was to you. Keep encouraging your sister to get counselling herself. May she be delivered from your mom’s sad world herself.
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Princess_Abby:
I’m going to get counseling, we’ll move closer to my husband’s work, and we’ll pray and discern what God has in store for us.
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Good luck to you, Abby. Offer your parents and family up to God and the suffering they deal out to you as your sacrifice on their behalf, and then go back to your happiness over this much-awaited child. We are all very excited for you!
 
Holy cow do I feel your pain… PA… you are in my thoughts and prayers. Families can be toxic, but God put us on this earth with them, so we have no choice but to figure out how to deal with them and sometimes that can be painful.

After all that advice that so many people have given you, I have to ask a question… I’m not positive as to which method you’re going to try to pursue in your birthing of your wonderful blessing, but have you thought of restricting people from the labor/delivery room and then afterwards? I know you can use nurses and doctors to be your rottweilers to prevent toxic people from coming to visit you. Your mother has threated that she WILL have access to your child. Encompassed into the rest of the story, I’d personally take that as a threat and feel it necessary to prevent her from executing HER will and not respecting mine as a mother. You can tell the docs/nurses who exactly you want in your room. If she’s offended, then that’s her problem but you’ve set the standard straight from the get go with your baby… that YOU are in control of who has access to her, not your mother.

And yes… document everything. That’s the only thing that will save you in the long run.

I will pray for you and your family… and please, please, please… let me know if you need anything for your precious one… I have three girls!!! (Ages 6, 3 and 7mo) So I know I have clothes, toys and books I can send you.

Peace to you!
Theresa
 
I will never be jealous of anyone ever again…

After reading these posts I called my mom and thanked her. She had no idea why I was thanking her - I told her she didn’t have to know, I just wanted to thank her for being such a wonderful, wonderful mother because apparently they are in short supply.

I thought I was getting discouraged about women and the ‘myth of motherhood’ because I sponsor recoverying alcoholics…after reading these posts I am wondering if being a ‘good mother’ is all in someone’s mind.

Now, if anyone had written posts about growing up with manipulative, pushy, selfish, self-centered FATHERS I would have been right in there going “yup, that is my experience”…so, it just goes to show you…

And, I have to tell you that if is wasn’t for my Mom, the 12 Steps of AA and the Church I would never have been able to have a good relationship with my Dad before he died. He was not a good father. He did some great things once in awhile when I was growing up but he was not a good father. However, his behavior did not dictate mine or my attitude towards him…which is what - I think - everyone is advising PA …protect yourself, legally, but make sure that you are not being sucked into a 'let’s all bash Mom and let her behavior determine what our behavior is going to be" fest…in fact, if I read your posts correctly, you have lived a good, solid, productive life for ten years and because of that had a good relationship with your parents…or at least you thought you did - all because you were not all entwined with them - right? You may need to start that up again…and you have such a great husband, and your beautiful baby on the way! If your grown up siblings want to live the way they are living, that’s up to them. You can pray for them, and you can treat them with love and kindness…but you can’t change Mom and Dad…they are what they are…and you are what you are…a woman of grace and dignity.

You had made a comment about alcoholics becoming mean and nasty when they are not drinking…in the Big Book of AA there is a part called The Doctor’s Opinion…you might want to get ahold of a copy and re-read it…it describes (in terms I think are much too genteel) how we feel before we ever pick up a drink. It’s called "untreated alcoholism’. When we are drinking we are treating our alcoholism the best way we know how - and then the allergy kicks in and it’s katie, bar the door!
 
Abby,

As far as the moving, my DH and I are getting ready to move from Columbia while he has commuted to his job St. Louis for about the last six months.
We found some affordable places (although we are NOT rolling in the dough at all) in places like Maryland Heights, St. Peters, etc. Good parishes, good neighborhoods… We will be about an hour away from my DH’s family and about 3 hours away from mine.
Being long-distance from our families has been a HUGE blessing. We can live our lives without all the family drama and really ENJOY the time that we get to spend with them instead of having many quabbles and spats in person (which we would definitely experience if we lived nearby).
We’re kinda worried about our family, too, with the new baby on the way. We want to give our children a good relationship with their grandparents, but we’ve come to the conclusion that if WE as the parents don’t have a great or even functional relationship with the grandparents, (and that is definitely true in our case) things will not change overnight when the baby comes. Sad, but true.
Good luck with everything. I will pray for you and I agree with the posters who say that moving might be your best option. It’s a hassle, emotionally and physically, but it be better emotionally for you, your husband and the baby.
Jess
 
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