This is Islam

[Deus_Vult]

Ahimsa:

I’ll take a page from Catholic-Protestant apologetics: which one quote most disturbs you? We can start there.

Disturbs me Hmmmm…I don’t know if your Quran disturbs me. I just cant figure out why people keep calling Islam a religion of peace. I dont hide my religion or its precepts. I stand 100% behind all of its teaching…Teachings commanded by God. I know some people do not like what those teachings are but I still stand by them I dont try to sugar coat them. I think Islam has a bad image because of some of its teachings and many Muslims try to sugar coat it for the masses. I mean please the 22 some odd sect of Muslims are at constant war with each other…and we are to believe they are at peace with others…everyday we hear about a Mosque being blown up Muslim on Muslim violence. And my absolute favorite is that these are a minority few extremists…OK well lets just say even if it is only 1% of Islam that is extremist thats 10 Million people of 1 Billion Muslims. I dont know about you but thats what I find disturbing 10 MILLION CRAZED VIOLENT PEOPLE walking this earth. I guess the real question is what do you find disturbing about the Quran text I quoted? I think an explanation of all the text would be nice if you are up to the challlenge…but take your pick.

 

[deen]

Deus Vult:

Disturbs me Hmmmm…I don’t know if your Quran disturbs me. I just cant figure out why people keep calling Islam a religion of peace. I dont hide my religion or its precepts. I stand 100% behind all of its teaching…Teachings commanded by God. I know some people do not like what those teachings are but I still stand by them I dont try to sugar coat them. I think Islam has a bad image because of some of its teachings and many Muslims try to sugar coat it for the masses. I mean please the 22 some odd sect of Muslims are at constant war with each other…and we are to believe they are at peace with others…everyday we hear about a Mosque being blown up Muslim on Muslim violence. And my absolute favorite is that these are a minority few extremists…OK well lets just say even if it is only 1% of Islam that is extremist thats 10 Million people of 1 Billion Muslims. I dont know about you but thats what I find disturbing 10 MILLION CRAZED VIOLENT PEOPLE walking this earth. I guess the real question is what do you find disturbing about the Quran text I quoted? I think an explanation of all the text would be nice if you are up to the challlenge…but take your pick.

Maybe this will disturb you more:

“If any religion had the chance of ruling over England, nay Europe within the next hundred years, it could be Islam. I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity.” -Sir George Bernard Shaw in ‘The Genuine Islam,’ Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936

 

[straightpath]

Deus Vult:

Disturbs me Hmmmm…I don’t know if your Quran disturbs me. I just cant figure out why people keep calling Islam a religion of peace. I dont hide my religion or its precepts. I stand 100% behind all of its teaching…Teachings commanded by God. I know some people do not like what those teachings are but I still stand by them I dont try to sugar coat them. I think Islam has a bad image because of some of its teachings and many Muslims try to sugar coat it for the masses. I mean please the 22 some odd sect of Muslims are at constant war with each other…and we are to believe they are at peace with others…everyday we hear about a Mosque being blown up Muslim on Muslim violence. And my absolute favorite is that these are a minority few extremists…OK well lets just say even if it is only 1% of Islam that is extremist thats 10 Million people of 1 Billion Muslims. I dont know about you but thats what I find disturbing 10 MILLION CRAZED VIOLENT PEOPLE walking this earth. I guess the real question is what do you find disturbing about the Quran text I quoted? I think an explanation of all the text would be nice if you are up to the challlenge…but take your pick.

However you want to put it Islam does not Ordain the Fighting.Many christians have fought each other in the past too can we attribute that to them being chrsitian
Most of the time these muslim nations are fighting Is because their lack of Islam.
Many non muslim take pleasure out of digging for verse they do not understnad and take out of contaext and show the people to fulfill their agenda that Islam Is evil or violent.
If you personally don’t like Islam i don’t think you should lie to put others off looking into islam.The choice is theres.I thought Other religions rant about how tolerant they are.So why Slander another Religion just to maker others hate it if you hate it.You might not like fish, it may not go with you but that does not mean you have to twist fact just to prove to others that fish is not good for them too.(Example)
peace

 

[Brad]

Maranatha:

Brad,

As you can see, different Muslims, even within the Sunni sect, can interpret the passages differently. One religious leader can interpret it so that Islam is a religion of perfect peace. Another, can, and has, interpreted it in ways in which a Christian would consider Islam to be less than prefect.

So who is to say that al Qaeda is wrong in their interpretation if they read the book the way it is written and there is no magisterium? How can this be truth if there are so many different interpretations? Why has violence and conversion by sword largely dictated the spread of Islam?

 

[Brad]

Deus Vult:

Disturbs me Hmmmm…I don’t know if your Quran disturbs me. I just cant figure out why people keep calling Islam a religion of peace. I dont hide my religion or its precepts. I stand 100% behind all of its teaching…Teachings commanded by God. I know some people do not like what those teachings are but I still stand by them I dont try to sugar coat them. I think Islam has a bad image because of some of its teachings and many Muslims try to sugar coat it for the masses. I mean please the 22 some odd sect of Muslims are at constant war with each other…and we are to believe they are at peace with others…everyday we hear about a Mosque being blown up Muslim on Muslim violence. And my absolute favorite is that these are a minority few extremists…OK well lets just say even if it is only 1% of Islam that is extremist thats 10 Million people of 1 Billion Muslims. I dont know about you but thats what I find disturbing 10 MILLION CRAZED VIOLENT PEOPLE walking this earth. I guess the real question is what do you find disturbing about the Quran text I quoted? I think an explanation of all the text would be nice if you are up to the challlenge…but take your pick.

Let’s try this one:

O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). (9:123)

 

[Maranatha]

Brad:

So who is to say that al Qaeda is wrong in their interpretation if they read the book the way it is written and there is no magisterium? How can this be truth if there are so many different interpretations? Why has violence and conversion by sword largely dictated the spread of Islam?

BINGO! Thank Christ for the Magisterium. (All dissenters please take notice.)

 

[deen]

Brad:

Why has violence and conversion by sword largely dictated the spread of Islam?

Take it from a non-muslim::

“History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”

De Lacy O’Leary, ISLAM AT THE CROSSROADS, London, 1923, p. 8.

 

[straightpath]

Brad:

So who is to say that al Qaeda is wrong in their interpretation if they read the book the way it is written and there is no magisterium? How can this be truth if there are so many different interpretations? Why has violence and conversion by sword largely dictated the spread of Islam?

Can you pls show what nations where were converted by the sword,The quran preaches there is no compulsion in religion.No one is forced to accept the message.
peace

 

[Eden]

straightpath:

Can you pls show what nations where were converted by the sword,The quran preaches there is no compulsion in religion.No one is forced to accept the message.
peace

Why do Muslims silence eachother by violence? I’ve witnessed it.

 

[deen]

Brad:

Let’s try this one:

O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). (9:123)

Do you know the context of the verse? I doubt it. FYI, this is an approval for the Muslims to fight their aggressors/enemies to DEFEND themselves. Clear?

deen

 

[Deus_Vult]

straightpath:

However you want to put it Islam does not Ordain the Fighting.Many christians have fought each other in the past too can we attribute that to them being chrsitian
Most of the time these muslim nations are fighting Is because their lack of Islam.
Many non muslim take pleasure out of digging for verse they do not understnad and take out of contaext and show the people to fulfill their agenda that Islam Is evil or violent.
If you personally don’t like Islam i don’t think you should lie to put others off looking into islam.The choice is theres.I thought Other religions rant about how tolerant they are.So why Slander another Religion just to maker others hate it if you hate it.You might not like fish, it may not go with you but that does not mean you have to twist fact just to prove to others that fish is not good for them too.(Example)
peace

First I agree when you say “Most of the time these Muslim nations are fighting Is because their lack of Islam.” I would go one step further and say lack of understanding of the true nature of God. Second you said "If you personally don’t like Islam I don’t think you should lie to put others off looking into Islam. What have I lied about I used direct quotes from the Quran…please explain? I did not even try to translate it myself I merely asked for explaination. And no I do not hate Islam…what part of what I said would make you think that. I’m still waiting for an explaination to the text.

 

[Irenicist]

deen:

Take it from a non-muslim::

“History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”

De Lacy O’Leary, ISLAM AT THE CROSSROADS, London, 1923, p. 8.

It would be more correct to say that Islam imposed itself on formerly Christian areas largely through discriminatory taxation which over time led lukewarm or indifferent Christians and Jews in the now Muslim-ruled areas to fall away.

Irenicist

 

[mike182d]

deen:

Take it from a non-muslim::

“History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”

De Lacy O’Leary, ISLAM AT THE CROSSROADS, London, 1923, p. 8.

What happened between the 6th and 12th centuries, then? Peaceful, evangelization? I suppose the Christians were so enamoured with the Muslim’s peaceful disposition and gentleness that they willingly handed them the whole of Asia Minor as a gift.

 

[deen]

Eden:

Why do Muslims silence eachother by violence? I’ve witnessed it.

Why did the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland resort to violence? Those ignorant Muslims can do whatever they think is right BUT it does not automatically mean that it is from Islam.

ISLAM IS NOT WHAT MUSLIMS DO. ISLAM IS WHAT MUSLIMS SHOULD DO.

deen

 

[yqbdd]

I chatted with a person named “Muslim_man” on irc the other day. Do you agree with what he says?

…
[14:16] <Muslim_man> who erased the native indians americans by milions ?
[14:16] <Muslim_man> and took their land?
[14:16] <Muslim_man> with what right did usa erase the native indian and slaughters milions of its innocent ppl ?
[14:16] <Muslim_man> usa … which u were just defending
[14:16] <Muslim_man> is satan itself
[14:16] <Muslim_man> and it raised the war againest the saints of most high
[14:16] <Muslim_man> us
[14:17] <Muslim_man> the muslims
[14:17] <Muslim_man> and as daniel said
…
[14:17] <Muslim_man> we will destroy usa to the ground by will of GOd
…
[14:17] <Muslim_man> we will erase usa
…
[14:18] <Muslim_man> the whole christian west is corrupt … thats the fruit of christianity … adultry and porno graphy
[14:18] <Muslim_man> we act by the orderd of GOd in his law
…
[14:18] <Muslim_man> destroying evil is a must
[14:18] [yqbd] will you kill innocent people too?
[14:19] [yqbd] Deu 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
[14:19] <Muslim_man> very nice … did or didnt ur GOd order jews to slaughter sucklings and children by the sword and women too ?
[14:19] <Muslim_man> dont u know that ur GOd did that ?
…
[14:20] <Muslim_man> sure … then same as GOd commanded the jews … he commanded us
[14:20] <Muslim_man> that
[14:20] <Muslim_man> whenever a nation kills us
[14:20] <Muslim_man> we kill it back
[14:20] [yqbd] do you believe the words of the Messiah?
[14:20] <Muslim_man> if this nation killed our children and women and bombed us
[14:20] <Muslim_man> we bomb it in same way and kill its civlians
[14:21] <Muslim_man> untill this nation stops killing muslims
[14:21] [yqbd] Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
[14:21] <Muslim_man> GOd almighty doesnt change his mind
[14:21] <Muslim_man> and why did jesus order that children and women be killed by the sword ?
[14:22] <Muslim_man> and then come in a human form … and say love each other ?
[14:22] [yqbd] what children and women?
[14:22] [yqbd] oh i see
[14:22] <Muslim_man> well … christianity say … jesus is GOd
[14:22] [yqbd] not all believers say that
[14:22] <Muslim_man> so … jesus is the one who orderd jews to kill infants by sword
[14:23] <Muslim_man> so u dont know if jesus is GOd or not ?
[14:23] [yqbd] and then we are told to do otherwise
[14:23] <Muslim_man> how can u be believers while u dont even know who is ur GOd ?
[14:23] <Muslim_man> beside …
[14:23] <Muslim_man> the bible was written by unknown men
[14:23] <Muslim_man> more than 40 men
…

 

[mike182d]

straightpath:

Can you pls show what nations where were converted by the sword,The quran preaches there is no compulsion in religion.No one is forced to accept the message.
peace

I sure the emperor of Constantinople would beg to differ.

Ok, so they didn’t force people to join their religion, they just killed those who disagreed.

This is an argument over semantics.

 

[Ahimsa]

Brad:

Let’s try this one:

O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). (9:123)

Another translation:

(9:123) You who believe, fight the disbelievers near you and let them find you standing firm: be aware that God is with those who are mindful of Him.

Again, this quote refers to non-Muslims who were beginning to wage an attack against the Muslims. (I believe the non-Muslims in this case constituted the Roman Empire, which occupied Syria, and saw the Muslims as a military threat. Word was that the Romans intended to demolish the Muslims. Muhammad marched up north to Tabuk with a force of 30,000, as a preventive defensive measure. Discovering that the Romans had withdrawn, Muhammad retreated back to Mecca.)

 

[Brad]

deen:

Take it from a non-muslim::

“History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”

De Lacy O’Leary, ISLAM AT THE CROSSROADS, London, 1923, p. 8.

Ummm. That’s one non-Muslim that is wrong. History does not make any such thing clear at all.

 

[mike182d]

deen:

Why did the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland resort to violence? Those ignorant Muslims can do whatever they think is right BUT it does not automatically mean that it is from Islam.

ISLAM IS NOT WHAT MUSLIMS DO. ISLAM IS WHAT MUSLIMS SHOULD DO.

deen

When a Christian resorts to violence and goes to war, we can direct him towards the life and teachings of Jesus and that of his first followers to correct his mistaken interpretation.

When a Muslim resorts to violence and goes to war, where do you direct him for correction? To Muhammed, who, after being expelled from Mecca, returned and laid seige to the city? To Abu Bakr, the first of the Rightly Guided Caliphs who began a war of expansion only three years after Muhammed’s death?

The problem with your argument is that Islam was born in war, no matter how many people try to pretend it wasn’t. You cannot deny history.

 

[Brad]

straightpath:

Can you pls show what nations where were converted by the sword,The quran preaches there is no compulsion in religion.No one is forced to accept the message.
peace

They took over over 2/3 of Christian occupied lands prior to the first crusade.

The Quran teaches that you are to enslave, convert, or kill non-believers.