This is Islam

[Faith101]

milimac:

One thing of which I am unclear: It is commonly mentioned that Christians, Muslims and Jews share Abraham as our father.

• At what point does our common ancestry diverge?
• What religion, if any, did Muhammed practice before he became a prophet?

Hey Milimac

Abraham called to the worship of one God. He was sent to a people who worshipped idols, who thought that these statues had power, or can maybe even relay the message to God. Moses came with the same message (recall the first commandement!) and Jesus, the same message, and Mohamed the same message. Oh people, there is one God worship him.

The “diverging” occurs when people misunderstand a message, elevated the messenger to a level of which he never asked them to or when the message simply gets lost and becomes polluted with other things. Although most messengers were sent with miracles, they never claimed divinity. They always said smething along the lines of “it is God who has GIVEN me this…or I have been GIVEN this”

Mohamed (peace be upon him) lived in a pagan society in Mecca. Although the society worshipped idols, Mohamed never participated in any of their activities. He believed in a Creator that was above idols, and would frequently go away from these people to meditate and reflect.

He denied idols and he never worshipped them…but he did not have a set religion. He was born in a society that he rejected and was searching for the truth…which was given to him by God through the angel Gabriel

 

[True-Jesus]

DIVORCE:

"The Koran by giving women a right to initiate divorce is truly revolutionary. The New Testament, in the supposed words of Jesus, makes divorce an offense similar to adultery, permissible only when the woman has cheated on the husband (Matthew 5:32). The Old Testament states that only a man can initiate divorce (Deuteronomy 24:1).
The Koran, contrary to that states:

“…If you both fear that you wont be able to keep within the boundaries of God in marriage, there is no harm if SHE ransom herself…”
The ransom would of course be the return of the initial property that the man gave her when she got married to him (the Mahar).

It is a common misconception that Islam offers a quick divorce. If the man says: “I divorce you,” three times to the woman the marriage is nullified, according to popular rumor. This is not true. The Koran offers an elaborate braking system for divorce. A system which is so advanced for its time that it is now being suggested in England to stop careless “quick” divorce which creates a burden on both the adults and children in question.

The Koran’s method of divorce is simple yet very functional. If mind is set on divorce, a divorce statement is written and pronounced in the presence of witnesses (Koran 65:2). Then there is a three month break in which both parties stay together as husband and wife, so that time be given to reconsider (Koran 2:228). After the three-month period, if the man initiated the divorce, he can either take the wife back, if she wants to remain in the marriage, or part. If he takes her back he can initiate divorce only once more in his life with the same woman.

If he takes her back the second time, then he has lost his rights to initiate divorce in the same relationship ever again (Koran 2:229). A woman can buyout her divorce by surrendering the property that was given her by the husband whenever she thinks the marriage wont work out. All through this process, the Koran suggest that help be sought by arbitration (Koran 4:35), one person from the man’s side and one from the woman’s. Very modern concepts given the history of the Koran. Does it not surprise you that people refer to the followers of this book as barbarians? Yet, the same culture that points fingers at these “barbarians” has a divorce rate of over 50 percent. Out of every hundred new marriages in the United States over fifty [old or new] will end in divorce.

Concerning divorce, since the man has been providing for the woman, regardless of who initiated the divorce proceedings, the Koran states:

“…And for women are rights equal to the rights against them but men have a degree over them (in the context of divorce only) in what is just (2:228).”
It is very clear that this verse is stating that there can be no absolute equal laws when conditions on both sides differ. Giving equal laws under unequal circumstances would be injustice. The Koran wants equality with justice. Thus women are allowed to divorce a man once [by surrendering the property the man gave her] and the husband can initiate the divorce twice.

Not only is the Koran the only “religious” book that explicitly states, “and for women are rights equal to the rights against them in justice (2:228)”, it is more egalitarian than modern laws. As late as 1982 in the United States for example, the Equal Rights Amendment that called for equal rights for men and women in the law, failed. The Koran truly liberated women over fourteen hundred years back declaring that for women will be rights equal to those against them in justice!"

 

[True-Jesus]

The Bible & Women:

“When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.” (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

Burning Women:

“And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.” (Leviticus 21:9)

Killing witches:

“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Whoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death. He that sacrificeth unto any god, save to the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.” (Exodus 22:18-20)

Birth of a female child makes a woman unclean longer than the birth of a male child does:

“Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be uncleanBut if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.” (Leviticus 12:2-5)

Men rulers and “gods” over women:“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” (New Testament, I Corinthians 11:3)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. " (New Testament, Ephesians 5:22-24)

Women created for man:

“For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.” (New, Testament, I Corinthians 11:8-9)

Silencing the woman:

“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (New Testament, I Timothy 2:11-14)

"God" wants to stone women and men:

“If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her, then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.” (Deuteronomy 22:24)

"God" rips pregnant women and kills infants, according to the Bible:

“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.” (Hosea 13:16)

"God" lifts up skirts according to the Bible:

“Look, I am against you!- declares Yahweh Saboath- I shall lift your skirts as high as your face and show your nakedness to the nations, your shame to the kingdoms. I shall pelt you with filth.” (Nahum 3:5-6)

Bible and pornography:

“Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.” (Ezekiel 23: 20-21)

“and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions.” (Ezekiel 23: 21, NRSV)

“Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls.” (Micah 1:8)"

 

[True-Jesus]

"Contrary to the Bible, the Koran, justly egalitarian in its approach, based on its emphasis on the common origin of men and women (Koran 4:1 etc), doesn’t agree with the Bible where the Bible says that women were created “from and for” men nor does it say that women cannot teach nor have authority over men. The Koran also dispels the common myth among other religions in general that a woman is evil by nature and has been created to deceive mankind.

The Koran over 1400 years back gave women the right to property ownership, the right to initiate divorce, the right to legal testimony and the right to earn their livelihood if they so pleased. It emphasized equity and kindness in a marital relationship and gave women an equal right to arbitration to resolve differences with their spouses. An unbiased reading of the Koran clearly reveals that it liberated women long before modern women’s rights movements were born."
( for more information see: women.rationalreality.com )

 

[Maryam_V]

Irenicist:

You misunderstood. It’s not that Christians fear blaspheming or Muslim retaliation. It’s that they don’t believe any Muslim will ever acknowledge a verse has been improved, because for a Muslim to do so would be to blaspheme. Would Muslims be willing to let a commission of non-Muslim Arabic poets act as impartial judges and accept their determination? And if the verse was ruled as having been improved, would Muslims then abandon the claim that the orignial verse was the word of God? I think not. It’s a silly test.

Irenicist

The Arabs were the connoisseurs of the Arabic Language and rhetoric. They would very much like to take up the challenge of the Qur’an, afterall, they did not like the new religion that Muhammad was preaching. They would grab any opportunity to prove him wrong and silence him once and for all - but their motives disappeared because of their recognition of the impossibility of coming up with verses like the Qur’an’s.

It is a fact that the Qur’an was revealed in seven forms to facilitate greater understanding of it among the Arabs who had different dialects. This was also to challenge them on their own grounds to produce a surah like that of the Qur’an. The challenge became more obvious when none of the seven major tribes could imitate it even in their own dialects as no one could claim that it was difficult to imitate due to it not being in their own dialect.

Further, Hamilton Gibb, a famous Arabist in the University of Oxford stated:
*Though, to be sure, the question of the literary merit is one not to be judged on a priori grounds but in relation to the genius of Arabic language; and no man in fifteen hundred years has ever played on that deep-toned instrument with such power, such boldness, and such range of emotional effect as Mohammad did.(Islam - A Historical Survey)
As a literary monument the Koran thus stands by itself, a production unique to the Arabic literature, having neither forerunners nor successors in its own idiom. Muslims of all ages are united in proclaiming the inimitability not only of its contents but also of its style… and in forcing the High Arabic idiom into the expression of new ranges of thought the Koran develops a bold and strikingly effective rhetorical prose in which all the resources of syntactical modulation are exploited with great freedom and originality. *(Arabic Literature, An Introduction)

The Arabs at the time of Muhammad did not and could not take up the challenge and they were at the pinnacle of their prose and poetry, what more the millions of well-educated Arabic-speaking Christians you speak of nowadays? Your reason for them not taking up the challenge is flimsy…this challenge is not silly:
**
"And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith. " (Qur’an 2:23-24)**

Maryam V.

 

[dennisknapp]

Contarini:

This was one of the classic theological debates within Islam. I think the supporters of the Qur’an’s eternity won, but the Muslims here can correct me.

Edwin

This is what I am wondering.

Can any Muslims fill me in on this?

Is the Qur’an eternal?

Peace

 

[deen]

Peace vs War in Islam

There is no contradiction when Muslims say that Islam is a religion of peace but it also resorts to war.

We can not deny that there are many people who are NOT in favour of establishing peace and justice from an individual level to a global scale. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and antisocial elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.

thx,

deen

 

[deen]

tmaconway:

As the Crusades were fought with the sword and rosary, so
must we fight Islam today.
Our brave soldiers are on the front lines with the sword.
We here at home must pray for the conversion of all Muslims
and that we will prevail in this fight.
We must pray that they denounce Allah and accept Jesus as
their Lord and Savior.
Until then Islam will be like a cancer on this earth.

You are entitled to your own opinion. The fight against Islam has started since Mohammed (peace be upon him) became a prophet. God said in the Qur’an that the enemies of Islam will continue to fight this religion BUT He will protect it. So just do your job and we do ours as well. We trust in Allah and to Him we will return and He will judge all of us.

Peace,

deen

 

[Maryam_V]

Dear Elizabeth,

I pray that you and your family are all well. You are right, I feel I am blessed with this hijaab. I remember telling my dear mother when I first put the hijaab on after I embraced Islam that I look more like a nun now than herself. Of course, I said that to her in an endearing and respectful way…she wanted to become a nun cum missionary doctor you see…but God has made her and my father meet. She is still very active in church activities. We are from a small town in a third world country, she and my father were the only doctors in the place…my mother goes around town visiting patients with her medical bag and things she uses to give extreme unction…just in case the patient she visits next already has it that his/her life is at its end. My mother smiled at my comment and could not help but agree. My father, on the other hand said that I have to look at myself in the mirror - I look like Mary, the mother of Jesus, he said. I guess he meant like the statues that go with block rosary processions and the like. Anyway, I was just a bit confused then because I am sure there was a bit of sarcasm when he said that I looked like Mary. At the end of the day my father is very much against anyone deliberately making themselves look differently from others. After a few years though, all praises are due to God, they learned to tolerate us and are now not embarassed to walk around town with me in my big veil.

As for relations between husbands and wives, Islam says that they are like garments to each other, living in kindness and mercy, helping each other go to Paradise. “And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquility in them; and He placed between you affection and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.” (Qur’an 30:21)

Each of them have rights and responsibilities towards each other, living complimenting roles in worship of their Creator. Selfishness and abuse of such rights and responsibilities like you said, should have no room in that relationship. I too was brought up by my dear mother in an environment where the wife tries her best to obey and please her husband because it is in turn, pleasing to her Lord, of course this is when obeying her husband does not involve any sin. Islam’s intstructions for me to be a good wife as best as I can is therefore that which I was brought up in anyway.

Thank you for taking me as one of your Muslim friends…I’d like to have you as mine, too. Strange, but perhaps because I was brought up as a Catholic that I feel we have quite a lot in common specially in our attitudes towards family life.

warm regards,
Maryam V.

 

[elizabeth4truth]

The Bible & Women:…

Hi there,

I agree, there are disturbing opinions and laws regarding women in the bible. It is why I think the story of Adam and Eve was interpreted, and gave men the advantage to dominate over women. However, I also believe Muslim men tend toward this also, not in precepts, but in reality, because they are human beings given great power and responsibility that is easily abused.

Thank goodness we have Jesus Christ who came to dispell those myths and unfair treatment. He gave perfect example of how mankind should treat women with dignity, respect and equality. Nowhere in The New Testitment can I find a single word of His that suggests anyone should ever be physically abused.

Last night I found this website. It it very long and I’ve not been able to finish yet. It disturbs me to read that Mohammad (may he rest in peace) taught that it is alright for a husband to beat his wife into submission, if she disagrees with him. Do you know about this site and its authenticity?

http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/women2b.htm

Peace to you,
Elizabeth

 

[Munawar]

dennisknapp:

This is what I am wondering.

Can any Muslims fill me in on this?

Is the Qur’an eternal?

Peace

Hello Dennis,

Yes - Muslims believe that the Quran - The word of Allah, is eternal.

Munawar

 

[Munawar]

elizabeth4truth:

Last night I found this website. It it very long and I’ve not been able to finish yet. It disturbs me to read that Mohammad (may he rest in peace) taught that it is alright for a husband to beat his wife into submission, if she disagrees with him. Do you know about this site and its authenticity?

Hello Elizabeth,

The website you found is an anti-Islamic website. Muslims regard it as “corrupt”, but I’m sure others don’t feel that way.

Regarding the Prophet teaching that a women can beat his wife into submission, is absolutly incorrect. There is only one verse in the Quran that speaks of how to deal with an unruly mate, and nowhere does it state or suggest a beating.

The Prophet had 11 wives, and he had disagreements with them. Not once did he ever raise his voice with any of them, let alone strike them.

Munawar

 

[elizabeth4truth]

Munawar:

The Prophet had 11 wives, and he had disagreements with them. Not once did he ever raise his voice with any of them, let alone strike them.

Thank you for writing Munawar,

I would hope no man with 11 wives ever beat any of them, he is outnumbered 11 to 1 and might get retaliated upon. lol

This does bring up another question. I understand why a man might have more then one wife, to protect women who were without husbands and populate the earth more efficiently. Do you still adhere to this practice? If so, how do the wives feel about sharing their husband?

Regards,
Elizabeth

 

[Munawar]

elizabeth4truth:

This does bring up another question. I understand why a man might have more then one wife, to protect women who were without husbands and populate the earth more efficiently. Do you still adhere to this practice? If so, how do the wives feel about sharing their husband?

Hello Elizabeth,

Yes, Muslims still adhere to this practise.

I believe women in general are not too pleased to have to share their husbands with other women.

There are stipulations before a man can marry more then one wife: The husband must ensure that he treats all of his wives Exactly the same. Meaning if he buys a 2004 Dodge Caravan AWD ES for his first wife, then the other 3 get the same model Caravan.

He must provide all with seperate living spaces, and again, all of them must be equal. He has to spend equal time with all of his wives. Lastly - He cannot show favortism to any one wife.

Munawar

 

[elizabeth4truth]

Munawar:

Yes, Muslims still adhere to this practise.

I believe women in general are not too pleased to have to share their husbands with other women.

There are stipulations before a man can marry more then one wife: The husband must ensure that he treats all of his wives Exactly the same. Meaning if he buys a 2004 Dodge Caravan AWD ES for his first wife, then the other 3 get the same model Caravan.

He must provide all with seperate living spaces, and again, all of them must be equal. He has to spend equal time with all of his wives. Lastly - He cannot show favortism to any one wife.

Boy, this sounds like a nightmare to me. I don’t see why any man would want this, except for status maybe?

What if the other three don’t want a Dodge Caravan but a Chevi Malibu or something else instead? Would they get equal value? Who gets to decide what the rest get? How can he keep from choosing favorites?

What if the first wife doesn’s want her husband to take a second, third or forth, can she divorce her husband, if he does? And if she divorces him, what are her chances of remarrying? Are there sanctions against adultary for men?

Thank you and peace,
Elizabeth

 

[Jermin_Savory]

In the name of Allah

elizabeth4truth: What if the other three don’t want a Dodge Caravan but a Chevi Malibu or something else instead? Would they get equal value? Who gets to decide what the rest get? How can he keep from choosing favorites?

**
Jermin Savory:** Thats correct elizabeth, the husband is commanded by the Qur’an (God) to deal justly with them. And you said “What if the other three don’t want a Dodge Caravan but a Chevi Malibu or something else instead? Would they get equal value?” Thats correct, the whole aim is striving to treat them equally.

I see this situation not as a “nightmare” but as a solution to the surplus women in the world who are not married, And wish to be married. If we technically look at the statistics of man and women, if every man were to peer up with one women, the population of women who will not be with a choice to marry a man would be hudge. In short, Allah knows best thus presented a solution in the Qur’an to a problem he knew we were going to face without his guidance.

 

[hlgomez]

In the name of Allah

elizabeth4truth: What if the other three don’t want a Dodge Caravan but a Chevi Malibu or something else instead? Would they get equal value? Who gets to decide what the rest get? How can he keep from choosing favorites?

**

Jermin Savory:

Thats correct elizabeth, the husband is commanded by the Qur’an (God) to deal justly with them. And you said “What if the other three don’t want a Dodge Caravan but a Chevi Malibu or something else instead? Would they get equal value?” Thats correct, the whole aim is striving to treat them equally.

I see this situation not as a “nightmare” but as a solution to the surplus women in the world who are not married, And wish to be married. If we technically look at the statistics of man and women, if every man were to peer up with one women, the population of women who will not be with a choice to marry a man would be hudge. In short, Allah knows best thus presented a solution in the Qur’an to a problem he knew we were going to face without his guidance. **

In the beginning God created Adam and Eve. He only created one woman for Adam, not two, three or four Eves. This is the original design of God Almighty.

Divorce was allowed because of the hardness of hearts of men, particularly the Israelites. But it was not so from the beginning. For the Lord, as I said, created male and female, and the two will become “one flesh.” They are no longer two, but one. The Lord Jesus Christ straightened this commandment out regarding marriage so that the hearts of men will not be corrupted by greed adultery continuously and become slaves to it. Anyone who marries another commits adultery, and the one who marries a married person is an adulterer–plain and simple. If you want to entertain the logical reasoning behind divorce and remarry, just look around you and witness the demise of families torn apart where the children are the most affected. Is this God’s perfect will? Certainly not.

Let them who have ears ought to hear.

Pio

 

[Jermin_Savory]

In the name of Allah

**
hlgomez:** In the beginning God created Adam and Eve. He only created one woman for Adam, not two, three or four Eves. This is the original design of God Almighty.

Jermin Savory: Hlgomez, you are right, he only created Adam for Even and at that time, one women for one man. I totally Agree with you on your point. Having said that, do you agree that according to advancement of time, things change and adjustments have to be maid? Let me explain. If I agree and also live by the “Not two, three or four Eves” that you have said, then in the Bible, does God have a solution to the problem of the Millions of women who will be without a husband if every man were to marry only one women according to your rule? If he does, then what is the Biblical solution? Then if the Bible doesn’t have a solution, how then will christian logic account for the millions of women who are left without husbands?

In the last revelation of God to humanity, God presents a solution to a problem humanity would face. God knows ahead of time how his creation will progress, for he is all knowing all wise. And in his divine knowledge he presented in his last revelation a solution.

                         ** Surah Imran 3:3 **

“And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.”

Note: Not only does the Qur’an present a solution to the propblem of surplus women, but the Qur’an is the Only Religious Scripture in the world that states, “Marry Only One.”

 

[RyanL]

Jermin,

What would be the will of Allah if the men began to outnumber the women? What would Allah have us do with surplus men?

Peace be with you,
RyanL

 

[Jermin_Savory]

In the name of Allah

**
RyanL:** What would be the will of Allah if the men began to outnumber the women? What would Allah have us do with surplus men?

**
Jermin Savory:** I’m surprised that you didn’t include in your last post an answer to my questions that i’ve raised. I was expecting an answer. As a Muslim, the Qur’an is my criterion and the words of God. So anything Allah has mentioned in the Qur’an will happen anything that is not mentioned will not happen. You question was, “What would be the will of Allah if the men began to outnumber the women? What would Allah have us do with surplus men.” Ryan, Allah has presented a solution to a problem that he knew would happen, therefore logically I would conclude that if Allah knew that men were going outnumber women nation wide, there would have been a solution in the Qur’an for it. In short, in the divine knowledge of Allah, he knew what was before and what will come and what will happen, so in his last and final revelation he presented a solution to every problem in existance.