This is Islam

  • Thread starter Thread starter deen
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Deus Vult:
I was hit with rulers in public school…corporal punishment was universal in the past…you seem bitter about your Catholic School upbringing. You seem like a pretty good person I am sure you have forgiven them…I have forgiven my teachers and I feel much better about it today. I hope you dont blame the Church for the wrongdoings of a few bitter old nuns. There are just as many good nuns as those who abuse their posistion. May God Bless you and Peace be with you.
Dear Deus Vult,

Peace to you. I have forgiven the nun who affected me in first grade, when she made me kick a little boy who had kicked another little boy. I know there are good nuns. I have good friends who are nuns and hold no bitterness toward the Church, in that regard. I consider it a dark time for us all that The Lord is healing in time.

It is a lesson for us however, to understand how power can corrupt and that we should not follow the princes of the world, but God alone. We are each responsible for the love we show our brother/sister.

Sincerely,
Elizabeth
 
40.png
TarAshly:
i can tell you, “no one goes to the Father except through me. I am the way and the life” sorry i dont know where exactly in the bible it says that but it does say that
It’s in John 14:6. Anyway, could that statement also mean that if one follows Jesus’ teachings, his ways and examples, then it’s a way to Paradise? This is true for all prophets… .following their way & their examples and teachings will lead us to Paradise. The verse does not necessarily mean that one has to “worship” Jesus, does it?Jesus is the way, not the destination.
God is a trinity. Father Son and Holy Spirit. you cant have one without the other
Yes, this is the Orthodox Christian doctrine, is it not? Is it Divinely inspired though? Anyway, I think we’re getting off-topic here.

Maryam V.
 
I am tired of people claiming the New Testament doesn’t say that Jesus is God. This is just silly. There are over 1.5 BILLION people in the world who believe this based in no small part on what the Bible has to say about it. Those who don’t think that Jesus is God do not believe the Bible! To try and use a book that so strongly declares the truth in order to tell a lie is to abuse Sacred Scriptures! I am also tired of Catholics paraphrasing scriptures and not citing chapter and verse! USE YOUR BIBLES! DO THE LEG-WORK!
“In the beginning was the Word, andthe Word was with God and the Word was GodAnd the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth. John testified to him saying, 'This was he of whom I said, “The one who comes after me ranks ahead of me” '” (John 1:1, 14-15).

“Jesus said to them, ‘I solemnly assure you, before Abraham was I AM…The Father and I are one.’ The Jews again picked up rocks to stone him. Jesus answered them, ‘I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of these are you trying to stone me?’ The Jews answered him, ‘We are not stoning you for a good work but for blasphemy. You, a man, are making yourself God’” (John 8:58-59, 10:31-33 [see Ex. 3:13-15, 20:7, Lev. 19:12, 24:14-16]).

“Thomas answered and said to him, `My Lord and my God!’” (John 20:28).

“Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, in which you tend the Church of God that** he acquired with his own blood**” (Acts 20:28 [c.f. Eph. 1:7; 1 John 1:7]).

“We must be . . . waiting in hope for the blessing which will come with the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ” (Tit. 2:13).
Now, could we please stop with the “proof texting” that claims the New Testament denies the divinity of Jesus?!?

Peace,
RyanL
 
40.png
Shinobu:
I’m glad you said this, because no one else who posted seemed to say this. This is indeed in the Bible. God himself says, “This is my son, with whom I am pleased” (not exact quote but it states the same idea). Why is this and many other reference seemingly lost to so many?

I don’t have much of a problem with Muslims, I just can’t say I agree with them. The problems I have viewed in this topic are that their answers are always the same, everything needs to be explained, it reminds me of Sola Scripture. Sola Scripture can never be “wrong” because the person can always come up with their own interpretation (which are numerous).

As it is now, I can not come to know the fullness of truth in Islam. I simply cannot deny the many ages of Judaism and I cannot deny the 2,000 + years of Catholocism. I simply cannot deny that the Old Testament eluded to the New and the New fullfilled the Old.

You can say I’m deluded, but I could say the same to you for in the end we are really one of the same. People who adamantly believe in our faith.
THANKS! 👍
 
Maryam V.:
It’s in John 14:6. Anyway, could that statement also mean that if one follows Jesus’ teachings, his ways and examples, then it’s a way to Paradise? This is true for all prophets… .following their way & their examples and teachings will lead us to Paradise. The verse does not necessarily mean that one has to “worship” Jesus, does it?Jesus is the way, not the destination.

Yes, this is the Orthodox Christian doctrine, is it not? Is it Divinely inspired though? Anyway, I think we’re getting off-topic here.

Maryam V.
Jesus is God, God is Jesus, the Holy Spirit is God and Jesus and Jesus and God are the Holy Spirit. Get it? God is a Trinity, you cannot worship one without worshiping the other. You can not have one without having the other and you can not get to one without going through the other. Its the greatest mystery of the Catholic (the True Church) Faith, it is also the most beautiful. They are three seperate beings yet one entity. its beyond the relm of human comprehension. so how can i believe it?? Its called faith sister. and by the way Jesus was not a prophet, he was God’s image here on earth. therefore, he was GOD present on this earth. not some silly prophet.
 
40.png
RyanL:
I am tired of people claiming the New Testament doesn’t say that Jesus is God. This is just silly. There are over 1.5 BILLION people in the world who believe this based in no small part on what the Bible has to say about it. Those who don’t think that Jesus is God do not believe the Bible! To try and use a book that so strongly declares the truth in order to tell a lie is to abuse Sacred Scriptures! I am also tired of Catholics paraphrasing scriptures and not citing chapter and verse! USE YOUR BIBLES! DO THE LEG-WORK!

Now, could we please stop with the “proof texting” that claims the New Testament denies the divinity of Jesus?!?

Peace,
RyanL
Thank you Ryan,
I couldnt have said it better myself…I would have but I was posting on another thread…thanks again!
 
40.png
Munawar:
Hi Ryan,

Thanks for posting that link. I’d like to go into the details of this verse. I’ve provided a better translation below. My breakdown is a little long winded, but it comes to a conclusion:

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).”
(4:34)

So the admonishment against women, only applies to certain women. Specifically those that “ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct”. This admonishment can only be carried out by a man who ALSO is not in “disloyalty and ill-conduct”. He must be at a higher state, in order to correct his wife.

Now if a just man, finds his wife disloyal and with illconduct, then he needs to correct her, or it will cause chaos in the household.

His process is simple.
  1. “Admonish them (first)” - Talk to them, get angry at them, explain to them the consequences of their actions. This period can take days to weeks. It happens first.
  2. “(Next), refuse to share their beds” - If she won’t listen to reason, and is still doing ‘illconduct’, then the man should discontinue all intimate relations with the women. No kissing, hugging, or physical conduct.
If the women is sincere, she will right away feel the loss of her companion. This period should also last several days to weeks.
  1. “(And last) beat them (lightly)” - If a women will not listen to reason, nor does she care about her husbands companionship, then this women is in complete rebellion. This women needs to be reminded that her husband has physical superiority over her. This show of force brings her back to reality. Her husband is so unhappy with her behavior that he has resorted to physical violence
The line “Beat them” has been discussed ad-naseum by the scholars of Islam, and the verdict has always been “not hitting”. This process is a show of force, but does NOT include slapping, hitting or punching. This verse means physical intimidation. Pushing or shoving with force. There should be no bruising or skin marks after this encounter. This is the last step in the reconciliation process.

And after it is all said and done, the Prophet (Who had did have marital problems like most people), never raised his hands against his wives, nor did he ever beat his wives, nor did he allow it in the Muslims.

If a women even then won’t listen, then divorce is the next step. Reread the verse in question, and reflect. I think you’ll find that it has less to do with male superioirty then it does with a reconciliation process in a household. The same process is true in reverse for a man. If he is in disobedience, then the women has many rights, including bringing her family into the picture to “rough up” the husband.

The point here is that this verse is not establishing a barnyard environment where women are treated any way the man wishes.

Munawar
This is the most barbaric animalistic garbage i have ever read in my life. you know what REAL MEN DONT HIT NO MATTER WHAT! a woman is not a five year old child! you dont correct her! you dont spank her! you sure as heck dont beat her!i have been hit by one man in my life, he slapped me hard enough to bust my lip, left bruises on my arms and face. guess what though?? he only did it one time. then he found himself in jail and i never saw his sorry butt again. my mother raised me tough as nails and soft as silk also. Being raised southern came real useful cause he walked away with his own bruises. he forgot i was a cops granddaughter and new how to defend myself. he slapped me i fought back, i can tell you that i was raised no man has a right to put his hands on me in anyway violent. EVER! no matter what. any man who put his hands on me better be ready for the tiger fight of his ever lovin’ life! i married a man, that has never so muched as raised his voice to me let alone his hands. i am truly blessed. we get into arguments, we are not perfect, but i do not fear him as i did the man i dated before him. i know he would never hit me no matter what. wanna know why i know that?? he is a Catholic and a Knight of Colombus. he lives his life for God first and then me. i live my life for him the same way. any man that can say “well she was being disobediant so i gave her a good smack” well you know what that makes you a whimp, a loser and a pansy. not a man. i dont care who you pray too, thats a lot of garbage!:mad:
 
in islam a man can beat his wife the same way the bible tells men to beat their wive; with a stick no bigger than their thumb. the Quran is the way we are to live our lives, but we also use the sunnah( sayings and actions of the prophet(pbuh)) beacuse he lived his life by the Quran. sometimes when you don’t understand something in the Quran you go to the sunnah to explain it. When the verse to beat your wife came down, the men went to the prophet(pbuh) and asked him what they can beat their wives with. he(pbuh) was brushing his teeth with a piece of twig from a branch, he held up the brush which was no bigger than his figer or hand? and said you can beat your wives with this.
this clearly states that you can’t really beat your beacsue that twig is not going to do anything.
and you seem to be ignoring the many, many, many, many things that is cammanded to do before someone resorts to this, this is an extreme and when it gets to this stage divorce is right around the corner.
 
I noticed that there is a lot of misconceptions about Islam in this forum so I decided to open this thread to present the true teachings of Islam and correct any misunderstanding of this religion. Please do not hesitate to ask or share your opinion. We will do our best to give you an honest reply.
I too, have noticed a lot of bad information concerning Islam on this Forum… As some one who would like to learn about Islam with a open mind – I am glad you are here. 👍
 
40.png
fatuma:
in islam a man can beat his wife the same way the bible tells men to beat their wive; with a stick no bigger than their thumb. the Quran is the way we are to live our lives, but we also use the sunnah( sayings and actions of the prophet(pbuh)) beacuse he lived his life by the Quran. sometimes when you don’t understand something in the Quran you go to the sunnah to explain it. When the verse to beat your wife came down, the men went to the prophet(pbuh) and asked him what they can beat their wives with. he(pbuh) was brushing his teeth with a piece of twig from a branch, he held up the brush which was no bigger than his figer or hand? and said you can beat your wives with this.
this clearly states that you can’t really beat your beacsue that twig is not going to do anything.
and you seem to be ignoring the many, many, many, many things that is cammanded to do before someone resorts to this, this is an extreme and when it gets to this stage divorce is right around the corner.
NO WHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT does it say for men to beat their wives…This is ISLAM alone that teaches this abomonation. Please refer to the hadiths I mentioned earlier in the thread…still waiting for an explanation.
 
DV
don’t you just love how when someone says A about your religion and then you go
**NO WHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT does it say ** A it says B
then they go oh ok, :eek: i was misinformed
thank you for clearing that up now we can better understand each other and be friends :love:

ps. don’t think i havent noticed how you ignore my and others explianations, how you single handedly skip over everything and lach onto one idea that was already answered and you beat it to death.
have a nice evening.
 
40.png
fatuma:
DV
don’t you just love how when someone says A about your religion and then you go
**NO WHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT does it say **A it says B
then they go oh ok, :eek: i was misinformed
thank you for clearing that up now we can better understand each other and be friends :love:

ps. don’t think i havent noticed how you ignore my and others explianations, how you single handedly skip over everything and lach onto one idea that was already answered and you beat it to death.
have a nice evening.
What???have I not answered?And when has anyone answered the question I had about the Hadiths earlier in the thread? Correct me if I am wrong but I have answered every question directed to me and even a few directed at others…if I missed something please inform me. Peace be with you and of course we can be friends.
 
40.png
fatuma:
DV
don’t you just love how when someone says A about your religion and then you go
**NO WHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT does it say **A it says B
then they go oh ok, :eek: i was misinformed
thank you for clearing that up now we can better understand each other and be friends :love:

ps. don’t think i havent noticed how you ignore my and others explianations, how you single handedly skip over everything and lach onto one idea that was already answered and you beat it to death.
have a nice evening.
These are not as easily debacled over translation or paraphrasing maybe that is why no response…

Here are some hadiths about wife beating.

Umar reported the Prophet as saying, “A man will not be asked about why he beat his wife.” (Mishkat Al-Masabih, p. 693: Abu Dawud and Ibn Majah)

… Umar then came forward, and when he had asked and had been granted permission he found the Prophet sitting sad and silent with his wives around him. He told that he decided to say something which would make the Prophet laugh, so he said, “Messenger of God, I wish you had seen the daughter of Kharija when she asked me for extra money and I got up and slapped her on the neck.” God’s messenger laughed and said, “They are around me as you see asking for extra money.” Abu Bakr then got up, went to A’isha and slapped her on the neck, and Umar did the same to Hafsa … (Mishkat Al-Masabih, p. 690: Muslim)

Iyas b. Abdullah reported God’s messenger as saying, “Do not beat God’s handmaidens” but when Umar came to God’s messenger and said, “The women have become emboldened towards their husbands”, he gave licence to beat them. Then many women went round God’s messenger’s family complaining of their husbands. Those are not the best among you. (Mishkat Al-Masabih, p. 692: Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, and Darimi)

Muhammad beat his wives.

… He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was ‘A’isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi’. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A’isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly? … (Muslim: book 4, hadith 2127)
 
40.png
fatuma:
in islam a man can beat his wife the same way the bible tells men to beat their wive; with a stick no bigger than their thumb. the Quran is the way we are to live our lives, but we also use the sunnah( sayings and actions of the prophet(pbuh)) beacuse he lived his life by the Quran. sometimes when you don’t understand something in the Quran you go to the sunnah to explain it. When the verse to beat your wife came down, the men went to the prophet(pbuh) and asked him what they can beat their wives with. he(pbuh) was brushing his teeth with a piece of twig from a branch, he held up the brush which was no bigger than his figer or hand? and said you can beat your wives with this.
.
Hello Fatima,
You Muslim women live in U.S, U.K, Canada and Europe speak like this. If a woman from Saudi Arabia or from Afghanistan(when ruled by Taliban) speaks like this then I appreciate. Please visit this link.news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3667349.stm
In Christ,
selvaraj
 
40.png
deen:
Hey Maranatha,

I respectrfully disagree with you. The teachings of Islam are based on the Koran and sunnah (sayings, actions, and tacit approvals of the Prophet Muhammad). These sources are all also interpreted according to the understanding of the Prophet and those who were near to him. Amazingly, there is a science in Islam which authenticates these sayings and interpretations so that the Muslims will not stray from the correct path. Only those people with weakness in knowledge and who follow their own desires, will turn away from the true teachings of Islam.

I hope this helps

peace,

deen
A neighbor of mine just named her daughter Aisha…I wanted to find out the roots of this name and she did not know so I checked to see if it could be found … this is what the name means and why it is quite popular in the East …

Popular Arabic feminine name from the feminine form a’isha - “alive and well” - of ’asha - “to live”. It is given most often in honour of the** thirdand beloved wife of Mohammed**, A’isha bint-Abi-Bakr (c.613-678), who he married, apparently, when she was only nine years old. Proud, strong, and easily envious, **she vehemently opposed one of Muhammad’s successors, 'Ali ibn-Abi-Talib, but after leading the rebels herself **she was defeated and spent the rest of her life in pious religious practice. 15/4/2004 -

I am wondering if men are still permitted to marry young girls, children really and can they still take more than one wife. If not, I am wondering why not, since Mohammed"s life and how he lived it is an example of what he believed who could change his lived teachings ? Did he not have 11 wives or more? Did he not receive the last and truest revelation from God ?
Thank you in advance…
Shalom,
 
In the name of Allah

Balla: I too, have noticed a lot of bad information concerning Islam on this Forum… As some one who would like to learn about Islam with a open mind – I am glad you are here.

Jermin Savory: Balla, if you wish to learn the truth about islam from people who live it and know it, please feel free to visit whyislam.org, there is where you’ll get answers to your questions. Looking foward to seeing you, my name is Jermin Savory on whyislam.org Also.
 
I am a very reasonable person. I am a philosophy major (albeit just starting but I am a junior at my university). I can see how Islam started, it was started by a man claiming to be a prophet but led many wars and killed many. Those who live by the sword will die by the sword. I had to give up my upbringing and lose many close friends in order to follow the reason that God gave me. I encourage all to do the same. Its a rough path but God will bless you for following His divine Son Jesus Christ: the way, the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except through Him.
 
I have been following this thread a bit in the last few days. I hope that nobody minds me writing this post, but I would like to challenge both my Muslim and Christian brothers and sisters. I would like to see what happens to this dialogue when we focus on a person who both unites us and divides us: Jesus, the Christ.

How do you as a Muslim view Jesus. How does the Qu’ran speak of Jesus? How does Mohammed (may he rest in peace) view Jesus? Specifically, how is the word that Jesus spoke and recorded in the Scriptures viewed?

I would like to focus on a few verses. Please keep in mind that, as you hold that the Qu’ran is the word of God and there are no contradictions, we, Christians, feel the same with the Scriptures, and furthermore, that the Old Testament can be truly understood in the light of the New Testament, through Jesus who is the light. I write this only because if there seem to be 2 verses that contradict each other, we need to understand them with the full Light, and thus no contradiction will be contained.

The Scripture verses are all from the Gospel of John.
Let’s start with John 17:5 (Jesus is speaking to the Father) “…Now glorify me, Father, with you, with the glory that I had with you before the world began.”
Do you think that Jesus is misquoted, or do you think He is misunderstood? In honesty why do you hold your point of view?

Now to John 14:3-10 (Jesus is speaking to His disciples) “…’And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back again and take you to myself, so that where I am you also may be. Where I am going you know the way.’ Thomas said to Him ’Master, we do not know where you are going; how can we know the way?’ Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, then you will also know my Father. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.’ Philip said to Him, ‘Master, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing His works.”
Do you think that Jesus is misquoted, or do you think He is misunderstood? In honesty why do you hold your point of view?

What about John 14:23? (Jesus answering Judas, not the Iscariot) “…Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Whoever loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.”
If Jesus isn’t misquoted or misunderstood, what does He mean that both the Father and Jesus will make their dwelling with him? Can this mean that Jesus, not an equal to God, can dwell together with God the Father in us? Or is Jesus, in His statement, making Himself equal to God?

This is a big statement, John 16:15 (Jesus is speaking to His disciples) “Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that He will take from what is mine and declare it to you.”
Again, misquoted or misunderstood? Can just a simple mortal, a creature, ever have everything that the Father has? Isn’t He saying that because of their unique relationship as Father and Son (His own words), He can claim to what His Father has? Isn’t He admitting that they are somewhat equal with this statement? If you think He is misunderstood, how can a prophet make such statements…unless they were true? Maybe he isn’t a prophet?

I could keep going with verses such as John 15:26-27 where Jesus is talking about the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the Father, John 5:19-29 where Jesus says that “…all may honor the Son as they honor the Father…” What Kind of honor is Jesus talking about? How should people honor the Father? He is saying that this same type of honor should be for shown to Jesus…John 6:40 where Jesus says that He (Himself) will raise believers in the last day! John 10:30 “The Father and I are ONE.” And so on……

Muslim brothers and sisters, I hope that in responding I will get honest answers, not because I think you are dishonest, on the contrary, from reading this thread I see that you are seeking the truth and seem to be honest in your responses, but because just as some Jews of Jesus time found it hard to see Him as He declared, by both word and deeds, so might you based on the faith you have in God…(continued in next post)
 
Furthermore, based on the Scriptures, one can only hold Jesus in 3 ways:
  1. Either he, claiming to be God, the Father’s son, knows that he really isn’t (which would make him an evil and deceitful person), or
  2. he, claiming to be God, the Father’s son, really believed he was…but truly wasn’t (this would make him a mad, sick person), or
  3. He truly was God, the Father’s Son!
I pray that God almighty may grant us all His Spirit of truth!!!

Waiting.

Your brother,

Luigi
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top