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cephas161619
Guest
Sad, but true:You can’t always trust every priest completely.
This is so difficult to explain - all I know is that I'm a mess
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Eucharisted
Guest
Saint Therese’ parents were in a similar boat, where they kept virgin for a long while in their marriage. Than a priest told them they had to have marital relations. It is essential to give yourself fully to the man, and he to you. For you belong to one another.I am completely ashamed of my situation, but here it goes. My husband and I have been married for a little over 1.5 years, and have never consummated the marriage. We were/ are both virgins when we married. Initially we did not have sex because we were just beginning to following NPF and wanted to ensure that we were doing the charting correctly. Eventually it just became an excuse to avoid that type of intimacy all together… It’s such an awkward and difficult thing to explain. I can’t even really begin to explain my reasoning for not giving myself to him. I think part of the problem may be that our courtship was short, and at times I believe we jumped into marriage without giving it a chance to grow.
We were engaged 9 months after we initially started dating, and married about a year later. The situation gets a bit more complicated as when we met I had JUST ended a 6 year relationship with another man. Instead of giving myself the a ‘proper’ break, I agreed to go on a date with him. I knew at the time that it was probably a mistake to jump so quickly, but I was so excited about him! He was the first somewhat coolyoung practicing Catholic that I ever met! He was quite a bit different than all the other guys I knew who were/continue to be heavily into partying, and promiscuous. He just seemed like such a great catch (and he is)! We definitely have our problems though. He’s not the best communicator, which often leaves me feeling lonely. I’m also the one who ‘works’ on the relationship, and he really does nothing to contribute to the success of our marriage. He’s an introvert who depends on me for his social life. He rarely sees his friends, and quite frankly, doesn’t really have any other than me.
He’s been well aware of my feelings long (maybe 5-6 months) before the wedding, but assured me that everything would be fine and that I was just experiencing cold feet. I sometimes think that I would have liked to remain single a bit longer, and to just enjoy the dating/ “getting to know each other better” stage a bit longer.
I don’t know where to turn. We started going to counseling together, but it didn’t turn out too well. I’ve just started going for individual counseling too, so I hope it gives me a little bit of insight into my situation. We continue to pray together on a daily basis too. My husband has been extremely patient and understanding, but I mean…something has got to give! He’s willing to work on things too…There have been times when I just thought to myself to just ‘do it’ and get it over with, but…I obviously don’t want to ‘give’ myself away when I’m suffering with this state of mind…
The plot thickens even more. Nine months or so after getting married, I returned to school. There I met a man who I would normally be attracted to, but would have the good sense to avoid. He was the typical bad boy: casual drug user, 12 year old son out of wedlock, former cop, promiscuous lifestyle (we’re talking like 85-90 partners), chronic liar, tattoos (one of them even read, "In the name of the son, father and Holy Spirit, in Latin), and yes, even a former alter boy! And yes I fell for temptation. We had an emotional and physical relationship (of course it was never consummated - THANK GOSH) for a few months. He promised me the world (e.g. claimed how perfect we’d be together, attend church together, have children together etc) and despite all the warning signs (including gut feelings) I fell for him hook, line, and sinker. Example of a warning sign, one night after working on a group project together he asked me to attend a party his friend was throwing. I agreed to attend. Most of the people there had children, so the deal was the children would ‘play’ downstairs while the adults were upstairs enjoying some adult beverages. Well, this man got completely plastered, and even smoked some drugs! With his son downstairs! The kicker is that he is a grown man of 35 years old too who just so happens to be a state of perceptual adolescence. After years of ‘playing it smart’ I fell for a player…the saddest thing is that during the affair I could feel some distance growing between God and myself. Praying felt fake…obviously I knew what I was doing was wrong.
Long story short, I confessed to my husband about the affair. My husband is willing/wanting to work on our relationship. He feels that God put us on eachother’s paths for a reason. I messed up so badly here…I don’t even know how to put my life back together. I keep telling myself that this is a perfect opportunity to deepen my faith and my relationship with the Lord. I pray A LOT, read the bible, and other spiritual books (of the Catholic faith of course). I’m am sickened with myself, because normally I am such a “good girl.” One of the worst things is that I miss the ‘other man’, or at least how I knew him to be. I guess I really never did know who he truly was, he just presented himself to me the way I wanted him to…but I still cry about it, and think about it.
So at the very least I’m glad to get this off my chest. If anyone has any words of encouragement or advice feel free to comment.
I don’t know why everyone is saying you should get an annulment. I see nothing wrong with the marriage, save the affair and the not having sex. But both can be resolved by God’s grace. But do not think I am wise; rather, go to Confession and tell about your situation, and heed the priest’s advice. God will instruct you through him.
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1ke
Guest
Yes.
Look, when you married you made a committment to an exchange of persons. It is a sin to withhold marital relations from your spouse.
Stop being a selfish child and start being a married woman. It’s not about YOU. It’s about you AND your husband. You made a promise to “give yourself” when you exchanged vows and you’ve withheld that for 1.5 years. Honestly, it sounds to me like withholding sex has become your weapon of choice in attempting to get what you want emotionally. If he isn’t capable of being what you want him to be, the way the “bad boy” is, withholding sex isn’t going to change that. Being a WIFE to him is going to change that. This man has been infinitely patient with you, and frankly I don’t know why.
Have sex with your husband TONIGHT.
Either you love him or you don’t. Either you want to be married to him or you don’t.
If you love him and want to be married to him, start having sexual relations with him NOW. If you don’t, then leave NOW.
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former_Catholic
Guest
For the record, exposure of a child to pornography constitutes sexual abuse of a child.
For the record, witnessing sexual abuse as a child constitutes sexual abuse of a child
For the record, a “womanizer” is exactly a *sex addict, *capable only of acting out sexually abusive relationship, not building functional and healthy sexual relationship.
In other words, what you observed day in and day out all through growing up as your parents’ marriage was NOT a marriage, but a SEXUALLY ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP.
This SEXUALLY ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP was unfortunately given to you as your role model for what a sexual relationship, a marriage, is.
Every bit of that constitutes the sexual abuse of a child.
Unfortunately yes, you were sexually abused as a child.
Unfortunately also, the odds of a “narcissistic” “alcoholic” “womanizer” sex addict having sexually molested his daughters as children at some time in their childhood when his wife wasn’t looking is also so astronomically high as to be completely off all the charts. The odds of those daughters not consciously remembering any of it until some event triggers off that memory in their lives (like their first sexual intercourse as an adult, the birth of a child, or their child reaching the age at which they themselves were sexually abused) is also unfortunately astronomically high.
Unfortunately also, the odds of a “narcissistic” “alcoholic” “womanizer” “gambler” sex addict who nearly kills himself having himself been a victim of sexual abuse as a child and him not consciously remembering any of it but instead acting out/repeating the dynamics of that exact same abuse on his children, in his marriage, and in all his other disfunctional relationships is also unfortunately astronomically high.
The odds of survivors of childhood sexual abuse finding and marrying each other as adults because they share this issue even though they do not consciously realize nor remember anything they can manage to identify as “sexual abuse” are also extremely high.
Where does one begin to deal with any of this?
One finds a good counselor well experienced with helping adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse, and one begins with learning and exploring safe functional communication and boundaries and functional relationship and what constitutes supportive, non-exploitative touch, like learning to safely brush one another’s hair and to give and receive foot massages and neck massages and back massages.
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former_Catholic
Guest
P.S.
If you don’t start there, you’ll eventually end up exactly on those drugs that psychiatrist offered after you eventually inadvertently end up in bed with some “bad boy” (who swept you off your feet because he resembled your disfunctional sex addict father who once defined disfunctional relationship for you as “love”) and you’ll end up shattered into a dozen pieces that you’ll spend the rest of your life trying to sort out and put back together. I promise.
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PaulinVA
Guest
I agree with 1ke. If you are trying to avoid pregnancy, have sex on the first day you can. Just do it. It doesn’t have to be perfect. All of the issues don’t have to be resolved.
Just do it.
Just do it.
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flyingfish
Guest
Has she said that she is withholding it? From her description it doesn’t seem like he wants it either.
There is clearly something very unusual here, since newly weds normally can’t keep their hands off each other.
Maybe there never was a marriage here in the first place, they owe it to themselves to find out. Their relationship is clearly not working.
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cephas161619
Guest
Formerwas, while I completely agree with you that counseling is very helpful, I do want to clear up that a marriage or lack there of does not depend on the healthiness or unhealthiness of the relationship or lack thereof. A marriage can be sexually abusive and still be a marriage, if entered into with the right dispositions. This doesn’t mean anyone is condoning the abuse and I’m still saying to do everything possible to avoid present and further abuse, but to say that it’s not a marriage is a giant leap that defies the definition of marriage.
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aicirt
Guest
I cannot imagine any man waiting a year and a half to be sexually intimate with his wife.
I too would be wondering if he is gay. Why would you look to have an affair when you hadn’t even been with your own husband? Maybe because you too are wondering about him?
Physical attraction leads to sexual intimacy. Apparently, neither of you are attracted to the other. Certainly, your counselors and priest must have told you to consumate your marriage. If you haven’t done so by now, accept that neither of you are interested.
I too would be wondering if he is gay. Why would you look to have an affair when you hadn’t even been with your own husband? Maybe because you too are wondering about him?
Physical attraction leads to sexual intimacy. Apparently, neither of you are attracted to the other. Certainly, your counselors and priest must have told you to consumate your marriage. If you haven’t done so by now, accept that neither of you are interested.
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whm
Guest
He is not gay, he is a real man, a gentleman. If he was a woman you wouldn’t be blaming the woman for the man’s affair would you? She has not mentioned any immorality on the part of her husband. The OP has realized her mistake and is looking for help not excuses.
I am sorry for being critical Arcirt, but it upsets me when a man is a virgin that he is viewed as weak or gay. No he is strong, moral and an example for others. The OP admitted that she denied him relations when she said. “I can’t even really begin to explain my reasoning for not giving myself to him” I
This is the worlds view, I disagree. Love leads to attraction and true intimacy. When you put attraction first it leads to disaster (like the guy she had the affair with)
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former_Catholic
Guest
I correct myself. Your parents had an extremely SEXUALLY ABUSIVE and DISFUNCTIONAL MARRIAGE (which however apparently met the strictly legal definition of “marriage”) and which they presented to you as your day-to-day living breathing model and working definition of what constitutes love, family, and interpersonal relationship. In short, you need serious counseling, training, and skill development for building healthy functional interpersonal relationship in order to have the necessary skills to build a healthy functional marriage and family.
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aicirt
Guest
I don’t think you can compare the affair with the marriage. If she wasn’t physically attracted to her husband and wasn’t anxious to have sex with him, why marry him? He may be a very nice man, a gentleman, a great friend but if you don’t want to have sex with him, why get married?
What is a gentleman in a marriage? He’s a husband who natually feels he will have intimate relations with his wife on their honeymoon. He’s a person who will not force himself on her, who will be understanding when she’s tired, or sick, and, if she is having some emotional problems, willing to see her through. However, when all is said and done and he’s been sleeping six inches from her, remaining celibrate for a year and a half, has heard her say “I can’t really explain why I haven’t given myself to you” and found out about her affair, I would think he’d be saying, “I don’t think we have a marriage” and leave. IMO
No, I would not advise her to go with the “bad boy”. And yes there is more to a couple than physical attraction but it helps. It is what gets things going which leads to marriage and leads to children. It is the friendship, trust, mutual interests, and humor that keeps them together.
How about if the situation was flipped? She’s a virgin, marries, hubby doesn’t want sex with her but goes out for an affair and tells wife “I don’t know why I don’t want to have sex with you”. If she stayed with him, would you see her as an inspirtation for the rest of us?
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whm
Guest
She wasn’t open to children. They should have been better prepared for marriage. If using NFP, they should have known her cycle already. They probably should have waited longer to get married.
He is the spouse who was cheated on, he has the right to choose to stay and try and work things out. I don’t think we can fault him for that. If they can’t improve their situation, then they should discuss what to do next with their priest. Us on the internet should not tell people to break their marriage which is assumed valid by the Church.
Yes, if there is repentance and the wronged spouse stayed to fulfill their promise of “better or worse” and not out of fear. I don’t necessarily disagree with you about this point, however this should be discussed with their priest not us. My general problem is accusing this guy of being gay.
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aicirt
Guest
Whm…I just cannot imagine sleeping in the same bed with my new husband for 18 months and not becoming intimate. Don’t get it.
And you may be offended at the thought some here might see the husband as being gay and maybe you are right. But I don’t think a majority of hetrosexual men would wait 18 months. It certainly wouldn’t be difficult for a gay man.
Maybe the men reading would have more insight.
And you may be offended at the thought some here might see the husband as being gay and maybe you are right. But I don’t think a majority of hetrosexual men would wait 18 months. It certainly wouldn’t be difficult for a gay man.
Maybe the men reading would have more insight.
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whm
Guest
I agree he is not in the majority.
I am a man and can relate to some aspects of this situation.
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phoenix3212
Guest
Of course they can’t dissolve the marriage. The only person who can dissolve an unconsummated marriage is the Pope, and, as I’m sure you’d agree, I don’t think he would want to get involved in this particular case. What can happen is that an annulment, not a dissolution, could be granted by a tribunal. But it appears as though neither of the spouses in this marriage are quite keen on that idea.
To the OP: I’d carefully advise you to just set a date to consummate your marriage. Get your husband involve, help him work out the details on what will happen then.
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mrpathetic
Guest
See lesson 30 here:
olrl.org/Lessons/
What is the marriage debt?
The “marriage debt” means that a married person is obliged, under penalty of mortal sin, to give his (or her) married partner sexual intercourse whenever it is reasonably asked for.
Lawful excuses for refusing: Adultery, sickness, drunkenness, insanity, non-support, danger to an unborn baby.
p.s., although adultery is a excuse for sexual refusal, it is an excuse if the other person has committed adultery - not you.
For God’s sake, do the right thing. What you are doing to your husband is cruel. Let your husband have sex with you. Unless your husband is truly gay or asexual, he is in real suffering. He is probably not letting it on, or is putting on a brave face. Trust me, it is exscrutiating for a young man to have to endure a sexless marriage.
I am an old man, and I have to endure it, but I am old. I accept that it is part of what I must forfeit, as I grow old. For a young man, it is unbearable. It is humiliating and degrading.
So please end his suffering. I know you are feeling guilty over the affair with the “bad boy”. Put that behind you, and have relations with your husband. Do it as an act of charity, or even pity. Please.
olrl.org/Lessons/
What is the marriage debt?
The “marriage debt” means that a married person is obliged, under penalty of mortal sin, to give his (or her) married partner sexual intercourse whenever it is reasonably asked for.
Lawful excuses for refusing: Adultery, sickness, drunkenness, insanity, non-support, danger to an unborn baby.
p.s., although adultery is a excuse for sexual refusal, it is an excuse if the other person has committed adultery - not you.
For God’s sake, do the right thing. What you are doing to your husband is cruel. Let your husband have sex with you. Unless your husband is truly gay or asexual, he is in real suffering. He is probably not letting it on, or is putting on a brave face. Trust me, it is exscrutiating for a young man to have to endure a sexless marriage.
I am an old man, and I have to endure it, but I am old. I accept that it is part of what I must forfeit, as I grow old. For a young man, it is unbearable. It is humiliating and degrading.
So please end his suffering. I know you are feeling guilty over the affair with the “bad boy”. Put that behind you, and have relations with your husband. Do it as an act of charity, or even pity. Please.
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beckycmarie
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Sed_libera_nos
Guest
I have not read all the posts but a number of them are really bizarre or poorly informed. I don 't want to offend anyone but everyone really needs to realize that it is better not to offer advice to hastily without thinking as it could wreck two peoples lives while they nonchalantly sail past. We need to lay off the accusations of gay, cruel, etc as they really aren’t based in reality and are incredibly uncharitable.
First off it is no sin to remain celeibate in marriage- some of the saints did.
Secondly yes sexual relations are the norm as as the spiritual director of St Therse’s parents felt for them it would be more appropriate that they bear children they obeyed the voice of their spiritual director as in a certain sense they are obeying Christ. However, both directions need to be motivated by love of God and not fear of anything else.
Third there is no quick solution. I personally feel that in his heart the husband is a pretty amazing man since he loves his wife and is not willing to quit.
Hurting but Changing, don’t try to pressure yourself. Doing that will cause you more frustration. Granted it is easier said than done. Yes you may have problems and maybe they are more serious than some other people but you need to accept that as wounded and broken as we all are God still loves us. Aside from the infidelities there doesn’t seem to be a sin as you sincerly want to work through it. Remember we are all broken to some extent- even the saints were. Those who don’t think they are simply not aware of their actual condition.
There will be no quick and easy solution as the wound was not caused overnight the healing (short of the miraculous) will take some time. Be patient with your husband and yourself.
It sounds like you and your husband have different needs and ways of communicating.
You will learn to adapt to eachother. I believe that for all the problems this marr
iage is your vocation and has saved you from the greater heartache of being used and and treated despicably.
God gives us all crosses to bear. Usually those who are given heavier ones He especially loves. After all Jesus bore the heaviest cross of all. If we never had any trials we would have nothing to give to God as a demonstration of our love. If you are faithful in carrying your cross your capacity for beatitude will be greater than those who have had little suffering.
Don’t worry about the marital debt for now as your case is extraordinary and ther doesn’t seem to be a danger of sin by not fufilling it at this point.
My personal advice would be to immerse yourself in pray. In our parish (tridentine) they have a luncheon after Mass. I woul recommend yo particpate if possible- may help the social aspect. In my parish thre is an older lady (actally my godmother) who is not only devout but a treasure trove of wisdom. If there is someone like that in your parish I would recommend getting to know them. I feel what would be helpful in your situation is a godly older woman who has been married and is wise. If you can’t find one then let me know and I’ll ask her next Sunday if she would like to talk to you. She is animated by charity and full of compassion. She could offer better counsel than I could and some of what I’ve seen offered here. It is unfortunate that many youth are no longer mentored by those who have proceeded them. Pray to saints Therese and Philomena especially.
Either way you both will be in my prayers. Please pray for me also if you remember. God bless and protect you both.
First off it is no sin to remain celeibate in marriage- some of the saints did.
Secondly yes sexual relations are the norm as as the spiritual director of St Therse’s parents felt for them it would be more appropriate that they bear children they obeyed the voice of their spiritual director as in a certain sense they are obeying Christ. However, both directions need to be motivated by love of God and not fear of anything else.
Third there is no quick solution. I personally feel that in his heart the husband is a pretty amazing man since he loves his wife and is not willing to quit.
Hurting but Changing, don’t try to pressure yourself. Doing that will cause you more frustration. Granted it is easier said than done. Yes you may have problems and maybe they are more serious than some other people but you need to accept that as wounded and broken as we all are God still loves us. Aside from the infidelities there doesn’t seem to be a sin as you sincerly want to work through it. Remember we are all broken to some extent- even the saints were. Those who don’t think they are simply not aware of their actual condition.
There will be no quick and easy solution as the wound was not caused overnight the healing (short of the miraculous) will take some time. Be patient with your husband and yourself.
It sounds like you and your husband have different needs and ways of communicating.
You will learn to adapt to eachother. I believe that for all the problems this marr
iage is your vocation and has saved you from the greater heartache of being used and and treated despicably.
God gives us all crosses to bear. Usually those who are given heavier ones He especially loves. After all Jesus bore the heaviest cross of all. If we never had any trials we would have nothing to give to God as a demonstration of our love. If you are faithful in carrying your cross your capacity for beatitude will be greater than those who have had little suffering.
Don’t worry about the marital debt for now as your case is extraordinary and ther doesn’t seem to be a danger of sin by not fufilling it at this point.
My personal advice would be to immerse yourself in pray. In our parish (tridentine) they have a luncheon after Mass. I woul recommend yo particpate if possible- may help the social aspect. In my parish thre is an older lady (actally my godmother) who is not only devout but a treasure trove of wisdom. If there is someone like that in your parish I would recommend getting to know them. I feel what would be helpful in your situation is a godly older woman who has been married and is wise. If you can’t find one then let me know and I’ll ask her next Sunday if she would like to talk to you. She is animated by charity and full of compassion. She could offer better counsel than I could and some of what I’ve seen offered here. It is unfortunate that many youth are no longer mentored by those who have proceeded them. Pray to saints Therese and Philomena especially.
Either way you both will be in my prayers. Please pray for me also if you remember. God bless and protect you both.
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