This is the REAL way I would end abortion

[Tracyms1974]

I say we turn all Planned parenthoods into places that supply single mothers with counseling, shelter, support, diapers, baby clothes and food, cribs, strollers, etc!

Who’s with me!

Seriously though. Wouldn’t that be amazing? Then we Houstonians wouldn’t be so ashamed to have the biggest planned parenthood in the world…

Just so you know, I’m pretty sure they did something of this nature in Columbia, SC, so it’s not like it’s never been done before. I think it’s a great idea. Give women REAL options and REAL support. (And the fathers/birthfathers as well.)

Tracy

 

[lynnvinc]

Some people who call themselves pro-choice offer only one choice. abortion.
I am sure that some people will disagree with my reasoning, mainly those who are pro-choice, which isn’t a surprise.
My goal is ultimately not about the legality of abortion, or even whether personal choice is allowed.
I want abortion to cease to exist, as quickly as possible. I am also against the death penalty and euthanasia, so not hypocrisy labels. I would help my son, in any way possible, and the mother of his child ( many years hence, since he is but 7 ) to help them avoid an abortion. Now… here is how I would end abortion, with the goal of making it cease to exist, regardless of slogans.

1. I would attempt to make sure all woman and men, boys and girls, were taught self respect and how to avoid sexual temptation without the responsibility.
2. I would council any woman or girl who got pregnant, and the biological father, about EVERY option, I would mention abortion only in passing, and only to tell them the negative consequences.
3. I would tell all parents of unborn children, father and mother both, that their baby loves them, we love them, and that their baby is a genetically unique individual.
4. I would either personally provide, or make sure that someone else provided, necessary medical and financial assistance to provide care for mother, child, and father, as needed, including a way to finish educational goals, without abortion.
5. I would strongly encourage, with financial and other rewards, adoption, family care, foster care, etc.
6. I would work to make abortion unneeded, by pressing and encouraging medical treatment advancements making abortion unnecessary for medical reasons. I would also make a cesarean section type of operation available and encouraged, for any baby possibly able to survive outside the womb, as an alternative to abortion, at the same cost as an abortion. Done in a hospital, not at a remote clinic.
7. I would set up pro-life clinics in every neighborhood that has an abortion clinic, as close as possible to the abortion clinic, and publicly advertise non abortion options.
8. I would encourage, or help, people involved in the abortion industry, to get jobs doing something else, using any legal methods available.
9. I would set up a chapel as close as possible to every abortion clinic I could, with perpetual adoration set up, and prayers specifically devoted to ending abortion, and sending the evil behind it back to hell.
10. I would encourage parents, families, and communities, to come together and offer all possible help to any pregnant couple, mother, and father if available and appropriate, to make sure they avoided abortion out of need or fear.
    I am sure there is more that can be done, but I will let these stand for now.
    Legality and personal choice aside, offering as many possible alternatives, as well as love, and combatting the evil behind it directly, and proximally, would be the best ways I think to combat abortion, making it cease to exist in the minds of as many humans as possibly can be done,as a possibility.

Great list.

I’d add, create gov-sponsored child-care services free or at nominal cost, with quality child-care providers (not babysitters from hell).

I’d be willing to pay higher taxes for all your suggestions and this child-care plan. It could be, say, run by elementary schools – just build on an extra childcare wing or facility. I’d be willing to pay higher property taxes for that.

If we can go on paying $billions each year for a defunct “Star Wars” program, why not a little spare change for children…

 

[lynnvinc]

Another consideration. I just stumbled across these stats – world list of abortion rates at nationmaster.com/graph/hea_abo_percap-health-abortions-per-capita

Maybe we could look at those with lower rates than us and see what they are doing right.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Another consideration. I just stumbled across these stats – world list of abortion rates at nationmaster.com/graph/hea_abo_percap-health-abortions-per-capita

Maybe we could look at those with lower rates than us and see what they are doing right.

As I have said several times on CAF, there is not a single reason, rather a constellation of factors. I haven’t visited the referenced link today (I will later); I’ve visited similar ones quite recently, and here’s what I found:

Lower rates include the Netherlands. High level of fornication. Extremely high level of 2-way contraception, education about contraception, cultural support for contraception. Using and being fully educated about contraception is considered an important aspect of personal responsibility.

Lower rates include Italy and Spain, both with strong family values compared to many other countries in Europe.

Lower rates used to include Ireland, when the Irish were very committed to Catholicism and bound for practical (political) reasons to the Church for mutual protection in battles with Northern Ireland, due to Protestant conflicts with Church. Once peace arrived, combined with sudden Irish prosperity & mobility, Irish women began traveling to the UK for abortions.

Here’s what has been proven not to dramatically decrease abortion rates:
-Laws (per se) against abortion
-High Catholic population (including those who in every other area are practicing, attending Catholics)

High rates include China (& everyone knows why), and this is despite extremely strong family values.
High rates include Latin America, with extremely high Catholic populations, and superficial (emotional) commitment to family values, but a contradicting sexual expectation with regard to men, and extremely little institutional/governmental/cultural support for women.
High rates include Russia and Thailand as well.

I could go on. Each country has a variety of conditions which in some cases, taken together, do support lower (or variously higher) abortion rates.

One also has to remember that no matter how many laws are enacted, countries which have high abortion rates often have a very high rates of amateur as opposed to “professional” (medically trained) abortions, despite no legally approved abortions.

Incentives and conditions are the propelling causes of abortions. When people are motivated (or scared, or desperate) laws will be broken.

 

[kozlosap]

continuing…

I will also say that lots of people ignore the obvious. Um, if teenagers (for example) with raging hormones have no opportunity to get together intimately, pregnancy doesn’t occur. (Hmmm, what a coincidence.) My dates in high school were extremely limited. In fact my social opportunities with boys were practically nil because I attended a girls’ Catholic high school where there were no boys for miles. And I mean miles. Ditto for my own girls. Further, the culture in our own family was that you had three activities you could engage in nightly: (1) education (2) education (3) education. I, as a teenager, and my children, later, were busy working our buns off in school. When we weren’t burning the midnight oil studying, we were extremely busy at serious extracurriculars which were not opportunties for socializing with oversexed boys, but opportunities for achieving. When families re-order their priorities, the problems of growing up too fast just go away.

Nowadays (I work in education), parents seem to feel they need permission to be parents. They seem not to understand that they’re in charge, and get to say No. Instead, they tell me that they “need permission” from their children to set up rules, boundaries, and to enforce consequences. (Seriously. I am not making this up.) The idea, in many households, that you can monitor or restrict or reduce social opportunities is something that doesn’t occur to them. Such parents say that they “couldn’t do that” to their children. I wonder if they ever said their children couldn’t play in traffic, or if they were worried about the children’s reaction to that prohibition as well.

Elizabeth - your intentions are good, but what happens when your 17 and a half year old goes off to the university and has little or no experience in male/female social situations? I think if you start at an early age engaging your children (both boys and girls) in discussions about sexual mores then that is a good beginning. Believe it or not, they DO remember what we try and teach them as far as family rules are concerned.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Elizabeth - your intentions are good, but what happens when your 17 and a half year old goes off to the university and has little or no experience in male/female social situations? I think if you start at an early age engaging your children (both boys and girls) in discussions about sexual mores then that is a good beginning. Believe it or not, they DO remember what we try and teach them as far as family rules are concerned.

Well my intentions worked out – both with regard to myself and to my children, so I’m not sure what your concern is. Seems to have worked out for Rence, too. I don’t happen to agree with how the Netherlands handles it. (The country assumes physical relationships among teens and therefore instructs them in the use of contraception, provides the contraception, and that is one of the reasons for a very low abortion rate. I’m glad they have a low abortion rate, but sex is serious business, with strong emotional consequences even if one does not disapprove of premarital sex.)

We’re talking about 4 years, for heaven’s sake. Did you think that Rence, I, and my children went to single sex schools from preschool and had no male playmates or meaningful friendships until college??? I learned, my daughters are learning, nothing cataclysmic is happening, I wasn’t stunted, they’re not stunted or “don’t konw what to do about sexual mores and male/female social situations.”

And by the way, all the research about single-sex schools backs me up. All it does is somewhat delay, appropriately, the sexualizing of adolescents. Wow, what a concept.

 

[Rence]

Well my intentions worked out – both with regard to myself and to my children, so I’m not sure what your concern is. Seems to have worked out for Rence, too. I don’t happen to agree with how the Netherlands handles it. (The country assumes physical relationships among teens and therefore instructs them in the use of contraception, provides the contraception, and that is one of the reasons for a very low abortion rate. I’m glad they have a low abortion rate, but sex is serious business, with strong emotional consequences even if one does not disapprove of premarital sex.)

Yes, it worked out well for me I was able to set limits on my boyfriends and I have NO regrets. No skeletons in my dating closet

We’re talking about 4 years, for heaven’s sake. Did you think that Rence, I, and my children went to single sex schools from preschool and had no male playmates or meaningful friendships until college??? I learned, my daughters are learning, nothing cataclysmic is happening, I wasn’t stunted, they’re not stunted or “don’t konw what to do about sexual mores and male/female social situations.”

Yes. The key is not putting your children in situation that will lead them to sin. The intention is not to erase the opposite sex. Of course there were boys around — in controlled environments. We went to co-ed grammar school, went to same-sex high school but worked through high school with boys/men present, went to an all-girl college too, but then a co-ed Catholic university. In other words, if there was a boy or a man around, there were other people around. Period. Especially for teenagers! There is plent of opportunity to interact with the opposite sex, just no opportunity to be alone with them. And there’s nothing wrong with that in my book.

And by the way, all the research about single-sex schools backs me up. All it does is somewhat delay, appropriately, the sexualizing of adolescents. Wow, what a concept.

Uh, yeah! because they know better. The kids who were kept “good” by their parents’ careful interventions watch the other kids (without careful parents) sleep around, get pregnant, either raise kids/have abortions, etc. There seldom comes any “good” from preteens and young teens dating. Considering dating is a precursor to marriage, and considering dating is for finding a potential mate, pre-teens and teens really have no business being alone with someone of the opposite sex. They aren’t missing much but a whole lot of trouble and emotional baggage.

 

[Black_Rose]

High rates include China (& everyone knows why), and this is despite extremely strong family values

Yes, China does indeed have strong “family values” under “filial piety” that is inculcated by a Confucian culture. Filial piety does not seem to be an inherently pro-life concept, since respect and honor would be focuses on the elders, not the young, especially developing fetuses in the womb. But you do have to remember that while Confucianism is conservatism, although it is quite different from occidental conservatism, it is also a secular force primarily concerned with maintaining a relatively social hierarchy and curbing individual excess. God and religion in Confucianism would only be valued for its utility, defined as its ability to encourage virtuous and moral behavior consistent with the status quo.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I completely agree with you on this point, Black_Rose. Another fine post, and I concur with your analysis as I also understand Chinese culture and its relationship to Confucianism.