This tread is for all those non-Catholic Christians who claim that, “The Bible is rather silent when is comes the Mary”.

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This tread is for all those non-Catholic Christians who claim that, “The Bible is rather silent when is comes the Mary”.

****Mary ******the Mother of God - in the Bible **(1 of 4)
A look at the Mary of the Bible with *references to Mary highlighted in Red.

Genesis 3:15
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.”

Revelation 12
1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was with child… …(4) Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth.5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne. 6 The woman herself fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God, that there she might be taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days.
10 Anyone destined for captivity goes into captivity. Anyone destined to be slain by the sword shall be slain by the sword. Such is the faithful endurance of the holy ones.
17 Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus. (Revelation
(NAB) 12)

Isaiah 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. (Isaiah (NAB) 7)

Matthew 1
18 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, but before they lived together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit. 19 Joseph her husband, since he was a righteous man, yet unwilling to expose her to shame, decided to divorce her quietly. 20 Such was his intention when, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife into your home. For it is through the holy Spirit that this child has been conceived in her. 21 She will bear a son and you are to name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.” 22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means “God is with us.” 24 When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home.25 He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus. (Matthew 1:18-25 (NAB) 1)

Continued on next post –
 
This tread is for all those non-Catholic Christians who claim that, “The Bible is rather silent when is comes the Mary”.

Continued from previous post –

**Mary **the Mother of God - in the Bible (2 of 4)

Luke 1
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary.28 And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”29 But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be.30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.31 Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.32 He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”34 But Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?” 35 And the angel said to her in reply, “The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power you have found favor with God. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.36 And behold, Elizabeth, your relative, has also conceived a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren; 37 for nothing will be impossible for God.”38 Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.” Then the angel departed from her. (Luke 1:27 (NAB) 1)

Luke 1
39 During those days Mary set out and traveled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah,40 where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth.41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit,42 cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.43 And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.45 Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.” (Luke 1:30-45 (NAB) 1)

Luke 1** (Song of Mary)**
46 And Mary said: “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
47 my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
48 For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
49 The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name.
50 His mercy is from age to age to those who fear him.
51 He has shown might with his arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
52 He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly.
53 The hungry he has filled with good things; the rich he has sent away empty.
54 He has helped Israel his servant, remembering his mercy,
55 according to his promise to our fathers, to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”
56 Mary remained with her about three months and then returned to her home. (Luke 1:46-56 (NAB) 1)

Continued on next post –
 
This tread is for all those non-Catholic Christians who claim that, “The Bible is rather silent when is comes the Mary”.

Continued from previous post –

**Mary **the Mother of God - in the Bible (3 of 4)

Luke 2
5 to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child.6 While they were there, the time came for her to have her child,7 and she gave birth to her firstborn son. She wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.
(Luke 2:5-7 (NAB) 2)

Luke 2
16 So they went in haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the infant lying in the manger.17 When they saw this, they made known the message that had been told them about this child.18 All who heard it were amazed by what had been told them by the shepherds.19 And Mary kept all these things, reflecting on them in her heart.20 Then the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, just as it had been told to them. (Luke 2:16-20 (NAB) 2)

Luke 2
34 and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted35 (and you yourself a sword will pierce) so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.” (Luke 2:34,35(NAB) 2)

Luke 2
48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished, and his mother said to him, “Son, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been looking for you with great anxiety.”49 And he said to them, “Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father’s house?” 50 But they did not understand what he said to them.
51 He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart.

John 2
1 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding.3 When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”4 (And) Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.”
**11 Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him. 12 After this, he and his mother, (his) brothers, and his disciples went down to Capernaum and stayed there only a few days. **

Mark 6
3 Is he not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him. 4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his native place and among his own kin and in his own house.” 5 So he was not able to perform any mighty deed there, apart from curing a few sick people by laying his hands on them. (Mark 6:3-5 (NAB) 6)

Continued on next post –
 
This tread is for all those non-Catholic Christians who claim that, “The Bible is rather silent when is comes the Mary”.

Continued from previous post –

**Mary **the Mother of God - in the Bible (4of 4)

Matthew 13

55 Is he not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother named Mary and his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas?56 Are not his sisters all with us? Where did this man get all this?”57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his native place and in his own house.”58 And he did not work many mighty deeds there because of their lack of faith. (Matthew 13:55-58 (NAB) 13)

Matthew 1
16 Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary. Of her was born Jesus who is called the Messiah.

17 Thus the total number of generations from Abraham to David is fourteen generations; from David to the Babylonian exile, fourteen generations; from the Babylonian exile to the Messiah, fourteen generations. (Matthew (NAB) 1)

Matthew 2
11 and on entering the house they saw the child with Mary his mother. They prostrated themselves and did him homage. Then they opened their treasures and offered him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. 12 And having been warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed for their country by another way. (Matthew 2:11,12 (NAB) 2)

John 19
**25 Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala. 26 When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home. **

Acts 112 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a sabbath day’s journey away; 13 and when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. 14 All these with one accord devoted themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
13 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

END
 
I believe it is apparent that the Bible is not “rather silent, when is comes the Mary”.

If you are a non-Catholic Christian and you disagree, please post your comment here.

If anyone here is aware of additional Bible verses, which refer to Mary, the Mother of Jesus, please post them here.

I believe that the misconception; “The Bible is rather silent when is comes the Mary” is do to a deliberate effort to try to “minimize” Mary, because venerating, loving or respecting Mary is “way too Catholic”; or because Mary isn’t mention very many times in the Bible, by name.

Moreover, the focal point of Catholicism is on Jesus Christ. However, it is wrong to try to “minimize” or “ignore” Mary and her unique role in Christianity, after-all, she is the Mother of God.

**Is an effort to “minimize” Mary, really motivated by anti-Catholic forces? **

Your Thoughts?
 
There are implicit references to Mary in the Old Testament, too:

Psalms and the Virgin Mary.

Song of Songs and the Virgin Mary scroll down to it.

Also:

Proverbs 8:22-35- Masses of the Blessed Virgin Mary

Ecclesiasticus 24 :52-Masses of the Blessed Virgin Mary

And other such references that the Church has long viewed as types of Mary, such as Esther, Ruth, Bathsheba (Queen Mother), etc. As well as the direct prophecies of the one chosen to bear the Messiah.

Some Protestants minimize Mary because they have a false impression that giving veneration to anyone besides God is idolatry. The Bible itself does not say this, though. And for some they simply do not understand why Mary is important in the life of the Church, especially when they think of the Church as spiritual only with no visible presence in the world. And the list of reasons go on, from those with mere misunderstanding/ignorance to those outright hostile to her, seemingly forgetting who she is/was and who it was she gave birth to.
 
Don’t forget about the significance of the foot of the cross with John. And the Wedding of Cana.

John 2
1 On the third day there was a wedding 2 in Cana 3 in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 (And) Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.” 6 Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons. 7 Jesus told them, “Fill the jars with water.” So they filled them to the brim. 8 Then he told them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” So they took it. 9 And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom 10 and said to him, “Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now.” 11 Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him. 12 After this, he and his mother, (his) brothers, and his disciples went down to Capernaum and stayed there only a few days. 13 Since the Passover of the Jews was near, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. Now compare this to the foot of the cross.

23 When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took his clothes and divided them into four shares, a share for each soldier. They also took his tunic, but the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from the top down. 24 So they said to one another, “Let’s not tear it, but cast lots for it to see whose it will be,” in order that the passage of scripture might be fulfilled (that says): “They divided my garments among them, and for my vesture they cast lots.” This is what the soldiers did. 25 Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala. 26 When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home. 28 After this, aware that everything was now finished, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled, Jesus said,** “I thirst.”** 29 There was a vessel filled with common wine. So they put a sponge soaked in wine on a sprig of hyssop and put it up to his mouth. 30 When Jesus had taken the wine, he said,** “It is finished.”** And bowing his head, he handed over the spirit.
I added emphasis on the 4th cup. Remember the Last Supper? That cup was the 3rd cup. And if you do Jewish study on their Tradition of the Passover, you will find that Jesus stopped on the 3rd cup. Let me give you one more link to read carefully. If you’re Catholic, you will easily see what I am pointing out.

I will address this on another thread sometime in the future. It is very significant for Christians, especially Catholic in danger of falling away from the Catholic Church in their confusion. It’s very shameful that the Church doesn’t have bible studies that include the study of the ancient Jewish practices and traditions. We would better understand that Christ truly did institute the Eucharist and give us the Blessed Mother as our mother. …The Mother of God [Mater Dei] … Our mother.
 
Jimmy_B said:
I believe it is apparent that the Bible is not “rather silent, when is comes the Mary”.

If you are a non-Catholic Christian and you disagree, please post your comment here.

If anyone here is aware of additional Bible verses, which refer to Mary, the Mother of Jesus, please post them here.

I believe that the misconception; “The Bible is rather silent when is comes the Mary” is do to a deliberate effort to try to “minimize” Mary, because venerating, loving or respecting Mary is “way too Catholic”; or because Mary isn’t mention very many times in the Bible, by name.

Moreover, the focal point of Catholicism is on Jesus Christ. However, it is wrong to try to “minimize” or “ignore” Mary and her unique role in Christianity, after-all, she is the Mother of God.

**Is an effort to “minimize” Mary, really motivated by anti-Catholic forces? **

Your Thoughts?
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Jimmy we’ll probably disagree on this but the woman in Genesis is Eve and not Mary. The woman in Revelations is the church and not Mary. So instead of debating it we can just agree to disagree.

With respect to the Bible being silent on Mary, I think what Protestants refer to is the silence with respect to her significance. Mary supposedly lived with John in Ephesus until her death. Given that John probably outlived her he would have been in position to tell us information about her and he doesn’t. Not much in his gospel is written about her. The nativity story is not even mentioned in John. Aside from her obvious role in giving birth to Jesus the Bible does stay silent with respect to her whereabouts. The last we see of her is at pentecost in the beginning of Acts. If she was supposed to be that prominent then I believe she would have appeared more outside of the Gospels. Revelations doesn’t count for me again because we see the interpretation differently.

In the Gospel of Luke Jesus has the perfect opportunity to glorify HIS mother and he doesn’t. When the woman shouted from the crowd, “blessed is the womb from which you came and the breasts from which you fed”, Jesus says blessed rather are those who hear the word of GOD and obey. This also happens in Mark when they come to get HIM from preaching. Jesus never glorfies her for who she is but uses her as an example to state the importance of obeying GOD.

I see Mary as the ultimate role model. I can’t imagine what she went through after everyone learned of her pregnancy and she stood her ground that it came from the Holy Spirit. So I personally don’t diminish her as a person and neither does our church. But we feel that all glory and honor goes to Jesus and that is always our focus. When we preach, Mary has a rightful place in our history and is certainly afforded great love and respect. I think Protestants generally think the RCC takes it too far with the focus that is placed on Mary. When I listen to many preachings it seems I hear the words “the virgin” more than I hear the name Jesus.

Anyway just my 1.5 cents.

PEACE
 
Jimmy_B said:
Genesis 3:15
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15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.”

Isaiah 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. (Isaiah (NAB) 7)

For the interpretation of these verses, PLEASE ASK YOUR NEAREST JEW. 😃
 
Della said:
It may have escaped your notice, but Catholicism was established by a Jew and spread by Jews. We’re a very Jewish religion. 😉
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thats just about the same as saying that lutherans are very much a catholic religion. simply because it was founded by catholics.
 
AgnosTheist said:
thats just about the same as saying that lutherans are very much a catholic religion. simply because it was founded by catholics.
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Not going to take this thread off topic to reply to what you already know is a non sequitur.

The OT is as much as part of Christianity as the NT since Christ is the fulfillment of the Law and Prophets.

Seeing the fulfillment of Marian passages from the OT in the NT is as old as the Church itself, and something pious Jews of Jesus’ day were very much looking forward to.
 
AgnosTheist said:
thats just about the same as saying that lutherans are very much a catholic religion. simply because it was founded by catholics.
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Not so.

At the dawn of the Reformation, Luther was faced with a difficult problem. By substituting the Bible for the Church as the ultimate ground of faith, he put a heavy strain on the Scriptures. There was one way he might have logically tried to carry out his plan. He might have refused entirely to discuss the question of inspiration or canonical authority, and simply accepted the Bible from the Church as a primitive document sanctioned by time and prestige and having the sure claim to authority possessed by any Christian writing that was more than fourteen centuries old. After taking the Scriptures on these terms, he might have built on them a new religious structure to replace the Catholic Church they had left. But this would have seemed like compromise. With the Reformers it was an essential postulate that mere tradition, however old, or Church authority count for nothing. Consequently, as the basis of their theological system, they set the principle that the Holy Spirit, speaking in the heart of every godly man, identifies the books which He inspired.
 
Allow me to specify what is meant by that.

It does NOT mean that Mary is not spoken of in the Bible.
It DOES mean that the piedestal that the Roman church (and the Eastern church for that matter) puts her on does not have scriptural support.

And, allow me also to direct y’alls attention to Matt 12:46-50
 
LutheranDK said:
Allow me to specify what is meant by that.

It does NOT mean that Mary is not spoken of in the Bible.
It DOES mean that the piedestal that the Roman church (and the Eastern church for that matter) puts her on does not have scriptural support.

And, allow me also to direct y’alls attention to Matt 12:46-50
Click to expand...
Precisely because we are not isolated units but members of a body, our actions have their repercussion upon the other members of that body. Each member of the Body of Christ takes his part in circulating the divine life among the other members. We are able to help one another by our prayers and merits. In this manner we can assist one another on earth; the saints in heaven - and particularly the blessed Mother of God - can assist us; and both the saints and we are able to help the souls in purgatory. Not only are we members of Christ, but, in the words of St. Paul, we are “members one of another.” (Romans 12:4) This inter-communion of prayers and merits is known as the communion of saints, and it is upon this doctrine that rests the Catholic practice of praying to the angels and saints, and of interceding for the souls of the faithful dead.
 
Tomster said:
Precisely because we are not isolated units but members of a body, our actions have their repercussion upon the other members of that body. Each member of the Body of Christ takes his part in circulating the divine life among the other members. We are able to help one another by our prayers and merits. In this manner we can assist one another on earth; the saints in heaven - and particularly the blessed Mother of God - can assist us; and both the saints and we are able to help the souls in purgatory. Not only are we members of Christ, but, in the words of St. Paul, we are “members one of another.” (Romans 12:4) This inter-communion of prayers and merits is known as the communion of saints, and it is upon this doctrine that rests the Catholic practice of praying to the angels and saints, and of interceding for the souls of the faithful dead.
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No offence, but that is like trying to build a house of cards on top of a needle.
Going from “We are one in Christ” to “The dead can pray for us…and one of them in particular” honestly does not make sense to me.

Yes, I can ask, and HAVE at many times, Christian friends to pray for me - as I have prayed for them. But I would never DREAM of calling on a dead friend to pray for me. There is a word for trying to make contact with the dead - and that word is necromancing.
And furthermore: Do you “ask” your, unknown by the Church, dead best friend to “intercede” for you, or some saint that you have never heard of?

I am not trying to be provocative - I am genuinely baffled by what you think asking dead people to intercede for you will accomplish. They are dead, and do not hear you.
Secondly: What can their prayers do for you, that Christ is unwilling to do for you without them?

Regarding the angels: They are not even part of the Body of Christ. They are our servants (Hebr 1:14). If you want the services of a servant, do you ask the servant himself, or his master, who then commands him?

A lot of questions, that I hope are recieved as they were intended: As questions, nothing more, nothing less. 🙂
 
LutheranDK said:
Allow me to specify what is meant by that.

It does NOT mean that Mary is not spoken of in the Bible.
It DOES mean that the piedestal that the Roman church (and the Eastern church for that matter) puts her on does not have scriptural support.

And, allow me also to direct y’alls attention to Matt 12:46-50
Click to expand...
With regard to the intercession of the Saints let it suffice to note with St. Thomas Aquinas that “prayer may be offered to a person in two ways, either so that he himself may grant it, or that he may obtain the favor of another. In the first way we pray only to God, because all our prayers should be directed to obtaining grace and glory, which God alone gives, according to the Psalmist (83): ‘The Lord will give grace and glory.’ But in the second way we pray to the angels and Saints, not that through them God may know our petitions, but that through their prayers and merits our petitions may be effective. Hence we read in the Apocalypse that, ‘the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.’ (Apocalypse 8:4) And this is manifest also from the method which the Church uses in praying; for we ask the Trinity to have mercy upon us; but we ask the saints to pray for us.” - II, IIae, Q. lxxxiii, art. 4.
 
LutheranDK said:
Allow me to specify what is meant by that.

It does NOT mean that Mary is not spoken of in the Bible.
It DOES mean that the piedestal that the Roman church (and the Eastern church for that matter) puts her on does not have scriptural support.

And, allow me also to direct y’alls attention to Matt 12:46-50
Click to expand...
As to “dead saints”, consider this. Although it will not bring your theories into line with your practices, to illustrate the biblical basis of ours, I refer you to Holy Scripture. Moses and Elias had long been dead when they appreared at the Transfiguration of our Lord, but as they spoke with Him, they gave every appearance of being alive (Matthew 17:2-3). Christ promised the Good Thief that “this day,” he would be with Him in paradise (Luke 23:43). He preached to the dead after His death and before His Resurrection (1 Peter 4:6). St. Paul writes of the faith and suffering of the “ancients” (Hebrews 11:2-40). These dead saints constitute “a cloud of witnesses over our head” (Hebrews 12:1). Although the wicked Dives had died and was in hell, and Lazarus was in heaven, they figured in a drama related by our Lord. Along with Abraham, they had major parts which they performed in a lively manner, if our Lord is to believed (Luke 16:19-31). Why not believe Him?

cf. Wisdom 3:1-10
 
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