"Those Catholic Women Who Use Contraception" (an account about some Catholic women)

[Kelfa28]

Some men are that, not all! The problem many guys have not been taught from when they are young how to approach and treat a woman. We can pontificate all we like as to why that is but the fact remains that ignorance is the problem. You also have to realize that these days men are forbidden from even discussing the issue of birth control with women. Ever hear the “war on women?” Men were reminded on daily basis that birth control is a woman’s business. The same goes with abortion. Maybe men would take more pride in women if we were allowed to share in the issues.

I’m not so sure about that in regards to abortion.
How many women will say the reason why they went for the abortion is because their boyfriends demanded it, paid for it and/or threatened to break up with them if they didn’t get an abortion.
How many women are coerced into having an abortion?
Men are just as culpable in this regard as women are. They are just as blind and ignorant.

 

[Julianna]

I don’t agree, and I think the problem is A LOT more complex than just saying “bye bye” to most American Catholics.

:clapping::clapping:

 

[Julianna]

It’s been my experience that more non-Catholics know about the no birth control teaching than Catholics do. There have been many times where I’ve mentioned it to a Catholic my age and they were shocked. Most of them think it’s either an old teaching that’s been abandoned or they don’t know that it ever existed to start with.

Eh, maybe not. Count the number of children of the families in the pew on Sat or Sunday and you will find, yeah, Catholics do know. Yes, some think it’s an “old” teaching while others are struggling in this economy. It’s hard to find work these days for men and women.

My mother-in-law had 9. But she was a SAHM and my father-in-law made a good income in the auto industry. Those days are gone. Even service jobs, (restaurant, rental car, hotel, retail, etc are cutting employees hours so they don’t have to pay health insurance, now coming down the pike in about 10 months. So people are working less…less money to bring home. Layoffs are the order of the day. This is reality.

 

[silentfactor80]

I’m not so sure about that in regards to abortion.
How many women will say the reason why they went for the abortion is because their boyfriends demanded it, paid for it and/or threatened to break up with them if they didn’t get an abortion.
How many women are coerced into having an abortion?
Men are just as culpable in this regard as women are. They are just as blind and ignorant.

You are correct but a man can’t force a woman to have an abortion. Also, the law of this land excludes men from even having a right to know if their child is being murdered. Perhaps if we had a culture that was more inclusive to men when it came to pregnancy men would step up and do the right thing. The pro-abortion people in Congress are an obstacle though.

 

[Kelfa28]

You are correct but a man can’t force a woman to have an abortion. Also, the law of this land excludes men from even having a right to know if their child is being murdered. Perhaps if we had a culture that was more inclusive to men when it came to pregnancy men would step up and do the right thing. The pro-abortion people in Congress are an obstacle though.

A man can’t physically force a woman to abort but he can have a VERY heavy influence on a woman when it comes to having one.
A woman becomes dependent on her boyfriend if she is having sex with him…especially if she is younger.
Any boyfriend telling her if she keeps “it” then he’s leaving…has a huge influence on the decision process. It is probably the biggest contribution to making an abortion happen.

It’s common sense.

Yes…there is a percentage of women who go and get abortions without informing the father…and that is wrong and should be illegal.
But the majority of abortions happen because a woman becomes pregnant and doesn’t know what to do.
She informs her boyfriend…possibly hoping for him to propose marriage and be excited to become a father. She wants a family…possibly a family she’s never had.
Instead…she is given an ultimatum. Me or “it.”

“I’ll stay with you if you just take care of it, I’ll give you the money.”

Men need to stand up and take responsibility…they aren’t an innocent party either. More often then not…they don’t take responsibility and leave the woman and the child. Our culture needs a total overhaul for both men and women.
The only innocent party is the baby.

 

[agapewolf]

Eh, maybe not. Count the number of children of the families in the pew on Sat or Sunday and you will find, yeah, Catholics do know. Yes, some think it’s an “old” teaching while others are struggling in this economy. It’s hard to find work these days for men and women.

My mother-in-law had 9. But she was a SAHM and my father-in-law made a good income in the auto industry. Those days are gone. Even service jobs, (restaurant, rental car, hotel, retail, etc are cutting employees hours so they don’t have to pay health insurance, now coming down the pike in about 10 months. So people are working less…less money to bring home. Layoffs are the order of the day. This is reality.

The reality is that people are living much higher “quality of life”

Back in the day when people survived on one income, they had one home phone line, with no features. No cable or cell phones, internet or computers, No starbucks. Perhaps only one car per household. They didn’t eat out much. They used coupons. Perhaps no air conditioning. Conserved water, utilities, ate leftovers, fixed everything instead of throwing out and buying new, bought used, and borrowed.

 

[Kelfa28]

To the OP.

Before I converted…I was planning on learning NFP but the secularized Fertility Awareness Method.

I hated the pill and I was on an “all natural” and health kick…when it came to food and products.

Then I converted and started reading the catechism and happily learned that NFP/FAM…was the only acceptable method of child-spacing.

However, I would have learned that contraception was wrong. Our parish and sister parish are very conservative and have young and conservative priests. Our sister parish priest regularly handed out NFP pamphlets and talked about it during his RCIA lectures.

We learned about it and were given resources and contacts during our pre-cana classes. It shows in Mass attendance as our families tend to be on the larger size. Four kids is considered the norm.

I suppose it depends on the parish and the priest. I know I will talk to my daughter about NFP and set the example.
She will know what the Church teaches.

 

[silentfactor80]

A man can’t physically force a woman to abort but he can have a VERY heavy influence on a woman when it comes to having one.
A woman becomes dependent on her boyfriend if she is having sex with him…especially if she is younger.
Any boyfriend telling her if she keeps “it” then he’s leaving…has a huge influence on the decision process. It is probably the biggest contribution to making an abortion happen.

It’s common sense.

Yes…there is a percentage of women who go and get abortions without informing the father…and that is wrong and should be illegal.
But the majority of abortions happen because a woman becomes pregnant and doesn’t know what to do.
She informs her boyfriend…possibly hoping for him to propose marriage and be excited to become a father. She wants a family…possibly a family she’s never had.
Instead…she is given an ultimatum. Me or “it.”

“I’ll stay with you if you just take care of it, I’ll give you the money.”

Men need to stand up and take responsibility…they aren’t an innocent party either. More often then not…they don’t take responsibility and leave the woman and the child. Our culture needs a total overhaul for both men and women.
The only innocent party is the baby.

I agree 100% but a lot of men don’t know they have that kind of influence over a woman. Perhaps if women expressed that very sentiment you made to men BEFORE they slept with them or if women did it as a whole in say a sex ed class / politics class it would be a step in the right direction. If you give a kid a loaded gun but don’t teach them what kind of power it has they will not properly respect the said power. Just once I’d like to hear from a woman that I play a fundamental role in the pregnancy process from an emotional / spiritual standpoint and that’s all I’d need to be sold on the power of procreation. These days and as we discussed in another thread, men are often belittled as mere “seed donors.” It is dehumanizing and I don’t think our Lord would approve of such treatment.

 

[Kelfa28]

I agree 100% but a lot of men don’t know they have that kind of influence over a woman. Perhaps if women expressed that very sentiment you made to men BEFORE they slept with them or if women did it as a whole in say a sex ed class / politics class it would be a step in the right direction. If you give a kid a loaded gun but don’t teach them what kind of power it has they will not properly respect the said power. Just once I’d like to hear from a woman that I play a fundamental role in the pregnancy process from an emotional / spiritual standpoint and that’s all I’d need to be sold on the power of procreation. These days and as we discussed in another thread, men are often belittled as mere “seed donors.” It is dehumanizing and I don’t think our Lord would approve of such treatment.

You’re right.
Women do need to be more vocal about how procreation works. It’s very tough for us though. We’re the ones who live and breath the pregnancy. We are the primary care givers. We’re taking only a man’s word that he will stick it out and provide and protect.

I remember when I was dating a guy when I was in my early twenties. We were sexually active and I asked him what we would do if I got pregnant.
You want to know what his response was?
“I’ll pay for you to get rid of it.”
End of discussion.

I didn’t know what to think…but I knew I didn’t want to lose him because I thought I loved him.
God was kind and I wan’t actually faced with that kind of a situation. We broke up shortly there after.

I think the men that up and leave the women and couldn’t care less about their children are “seed donars.”
I have girlfriends who have children they are raising alone because the fathers of their children want nothing to do with them. Despite attempts by the woman to have the children’s father see them.
The father is late, misses visitations, takes poor care of the children when he does see them. This is not coming from the mother either…it’s coming from the children who are disappointed time after time…over and over.
I know four woman I’m close with who are in this very situation. It’s tough NOT to label these men as sperm donars.
Not all men are like this. But men aren’t taught to take responsibility. No fault divorce laws and favorability in the courts to woman also have a negative impact on men.

 

[silentfactor80]

You’re right.
Women do need to be more vocal about how procreation works.** It’s very tough for us though. We’re the ones who live and breath the pregnancy. We are the primary care givers. We’re taking only a man’s word that he will stick it out and provide and protect.**

I remember when I was dating a guy when I was in my early twenties. We were sexually active and I asked him what we would do if I got pregnant.
You want to know what his response was?
**“I’ll pay for you to get rid of it.”
End of discussion.

I didn’t know what to think…but I knew I didn’t want to lose him because I thought I loved him.**
God was kind and I wan’t actually faced with that kind of a situation. We broke up shortly there after.

I think the men that up and leave the women and couldn’t care less about their children are “seed donars.”
I have girlfriends who have children they are raising alone because the fathers of their children want nothing to do with them. Despite attempts by the woman to have the children’s father see them.
The father is late, misses visitations, takes poor care of the children when he does see them. This is not coming from the mother either…it’s coming from the children who are disappointed time after time…over and over.
I know four woman I’m close with who are in this very situation. It’s tough NOT to label these men as sperm donars.
Not all men are like this. But men aren’t taught to take responsibility. No fault divorce laws and favorability in the courts to woman also have a negative impact on men.

To the first bold, that is exactly why you have to get vocal about it. You need to let the guys know that you can’t do it alone and since it takes 2 to tango he has to step up or step out of you life.

To the second bold, the problem is what we think of as love these days. Love is SACRIFICE. Love is NOT the warm and fuzzies the Disney Movies told us they were. This blog I found describes things quite well and it is written by a woman.

Lots of mothers abandon, kill, and abort kids. They are no more an incubator than men are sperm donors. Yet, we don’t use such loaded language to describe them do we? In fact its anathema to do so! I think this attitude in general makes a commodity out of both men and women. Objectification of both if you will.

 

[Kelfa28]

To the first bold, that is exactly why you have to get vocal about it. You need to let the guys know that you can’t do it alone and since it takes 2 to tango he has to step up or step out of you life.

To the second bold, the problem is what we think of as love these days. Love is SACRIFICE. Love is NOT the warm and fuzzies the Disney Movies told us they were. This blog I found describes things quite well and it is written by a woman.

Lots of mothers abandon, kill, and abort kids. They are no more an incubator than men are sperm donors. Yet, we don’t use such loaded language to describe them do we? In fact its anathema to do so! I think this attitude in general makes a commodity out of both men and women. Objectification of both if you will.

I know. I’m married to a wonderful Catholic man. Probably should have addressed that earlier.
Most men have absolutely no idea what their roles are as men. It’s been clouded and outright dismissed by the feminist movement.
I’m not a fan of that movement. I think it’s one of the biggest contributions to the downfall of men and their roles in society.

My husband and I had a huge argument before we were married about the contribution to bearing children. He argued it was 50/50. I begged to differ.
I told him his contribution…while important…boiled down to one orgasm. An act of pure pleasure on his part that lasts a few seconds.
That one act would result in 9 months of change for me. Nine months of illness, pain, body modification and stress that concludes in 28 hours of hard and painful labor. Then the pain and, ultimate and utter disappointment when it came to breast feeding.

Then we got pregnant and he saw absolutely everything I went through. He begged me to quit work and I did. He worked harder and sacrificed more. He is a real man.

That didn’t stop me from wanting to kill him when he bragged to the nurses at the hospital about how we’d be practicing NFP and then shied away and was outright disgusted when I insisted on him learning how I chart.
Suffice to say…he understands now how NFP works and how it should work.

Guys…learn how to chart. Learn how it works and don’t just rely on your wife giving you the thumbs up when you ask for relations while she does all the interpretation and leg work.

 

[silentfactor80]

I know. I’m married to a wonderful Catholic man. Probably should have addressed that earlier.
Most men have absolutely no idea what their roles are as men. It’s been clouded and outright dismissed by the feminist movement.
I’m not a fan of that movement. I think it’s one of the biggest contributions to the downfall of men and their roles in society.

My husband and I had a huge argument before we were married about the contribution to bearing children. He argued it was 50/50. I begged to differ.
I told him his contribution…while important…boiled down to one orgasm. An act of pure pleasure on his part that lasts a few seconds.
That one act would result in 9 months of change for me. Nine months of illness, pain, body modification and stress that concludes in 28 hours of hard and painful labor. Then the pain and, ultimate and utter disappointment when it came to breast feeding.

Then we got pregnant and he saw absolutely everything I went through. He begged me to quit work and I did. He worked harder and sacrificed more. He is a real man.

That didn’t stop me from wanting to kill him when he bragged to the nurses at the hospital about how we’d be practicing NFP and then shied away and was outright disgusted when I insisted on him learning how I chart.
Suffice to say…he understands now how NFP works and how it should work.

Guys…learn how to chart. Learn how it works and don’t just rely on your wife giving you the thumbs up when you ask for relations while she does all the interpretation and leg work.

A friend on mine discovered NFP before his wife (then fiancee). He said she was so thankful he helped her figure it out and they did it together. The communication between them would be the envy of any couple. He is somewhat bullheaded but in a good way. He will never settle for second best when it comes to his family, especially his wife. I think every guy has it in him. Some guys just need a little more encouragement than others. Check these links out about the “daddy brain.” It is easy to understand how a womans body changes during pregnancy but a man’s brain does the same thing without the child physically present in his body. It would bode society well to give guys a little more credit in this dept.

greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_astonishing_science_of_father_involvement
greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_daddy_brain

 

[TheRealJuliane]

You’re right.
Women do need to be more vocal about how procreation works. It’s very tough for us though. We’re the ones who live and breath the pregnancy. We are the primary care givers. We’re taking only a man’s word that he will stick it out and provide and protect.

I remember when I was dating a guy when I was in my early twenties. We were sexually active and I asked him what we would do if I got pregnant.
You want to know what his response was?
“I’ll pay for you to get rid of it.”
End of discussion.

I didn’t know what to think…but I knew I didn’t want to lose him because I thought I loved him.
God was kind and I wan’t actually faced with that kind of a situation. We broke up shortly there after.

I think the men that up and leave the women and couldn’t care less about their children are “seed donars.”
I have girlfriends who have children they are raising alone because the fathers of their children want nothing to do with them. Despite attempts by the woman to have the children’s father see them.
The father is late, misses visitations, takes poor care of the children when he does see them. This is not coming from the mother either…it’s coming from the children who are disappointed time after time…over and over.
I know four woman I’m close with who are in this very situation. It’s tough NOT to label these men as sperm donars.
Not all men are like this. But men aren’t taught to take responsibility. No fault divorce laws and favorability in the courts to woman also have a negative impact on men.

This is what contraception has wrought. It all boils down to one thing. What is the purpose of sexual intercourse in the first place? What is our purpose while we live here on Earth? Is it all about us, or is it about God’s desire for us to procreate and take care of our families and His Church, live out God’s goals for us in our lives, take care of the poor, the sick, the widows and orphans? When you disconnect sex from making new souls, it all goes awry.

 

[Kelfa28]

This is what contraception has wrought. It all boils down to one thing. What is the purpose of sexual intercourse in the first place? What is our purpose while we live here on Earth? Is it all about us, or is it about God’s desire for us to procreate and take care of our families and His Church, live out God’s goals for us in our lives, take care of the poor, the sick, the widows and orphans? When you disconnect sex from making new souls, it all goes awry.

Yes.

And when you do take away the procreative mindset…everything seems to fall into place.
It’s such a complete and peaceful feeling when you give everything up to God.

I’ve never been happier in my life.

 

[silicasandra]

Yes.

And when you do take away the procreative mindset…everything seems to fall into place.
It’s such a complete and peaceful feeling when you give everything up to God.

I’ve never been happier in my life.

I agree. I am the kind of person who really, really, really wants to be in charge of everything. I used to think it gave me some kind of security. But really it just makes me super stressed out, and makes me feel responsible for things that aren’t my fault. My biology is my biology, and God designed it well.

I used to think about having more than two kids as being irresponsible in some way, or that it would be too much chaos for me. I wouldn’t be able to exert the kind of control I wanted. But I’m at peace now with having more if we’re called to it, and actually looking forward to it!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Yes.

And when you do NOT take away the procreative mindset…everything seems to fall into place.
It’s such a complete and peaceful feeling when you give everything up to God.

I’ve never been happier in my life.

I corrected your message for what I assume that you meant.

I think the best time in our marriage was when we were trying for our first and my 2nd trimester once the morning sickness had finally abated. And then also when we weren’t trying for #2 but he came anyway.

I prayed last night to God to use me in some way, for His glory, because all those years I spent outside of His Holy will have got to mean something other than pain and regret. I really hope that He can show me some way to restore the years the locusts have eaten and help others not to follow that road filled with pain. It is my deepest wish (other than my husband opening his heart to Jesus).

 

[Julianna]

The reality is that people are living much higher “quality of life”

Back in the day when people survived on one income, they had one home phone line, with no features. No cable or cell phones, internet or computers, No starbucks. Perhaps only one car per household. They didn’t eat out much. They used coupons. Perhaps no air conditioning. Conserved water, utilities, ate leftovers, fixed everything instead of throwing out and buying new, bought used, and borrowed.

When my parents were married in '56. They lived in apt. Then when my sister and I were born, they lived in a duplex. (rented). My mom did not work outside the home. My dad worked in the meat packing industry. When they bought their first home in '63, dad’s income supported us. The house cost $15,000.00. You can’t buy a car for that amount today. We survived on “one” car because mom stayed home. We survived on one phone because really there wasn’t a need to have more than one. We had A/C. Water/sewer was not a bill at the time, but part of your municipal taxes. My mother never used coupons. We ate out as a family twice a month,

Today, you can’t do that unless you want to live in a hovel or have your life lived on the TLC network. Computer and internet connection is a “have to”, not an accessory. I wanted 4 kids, I had two. I had a hysterectomy…I’m fine with that. I’m happy with the 2 I have. If you think Catholics are not practicing birth control, either chemical or natural, I got a bridge to sell you.

 

[Kelfa28]

I corrected your message for what I assume that you meant.

Thank-you.

I actually meant to put contraceptive mindset…but that works as well.

 

[agapewolf]

When my parents were married in '56. They lived in apt. Then when my sister and I were born, they lived in a duplex. (rented). My mom did not work outside the home. My dad worked in the meat packing industry. When they bought their first home in '63, dad’s income supported us. The house cost $15,000.00. You can’t buy a car for that amount today. We survived on “one” car because mom stayed home. We survived on one phone because really there wasn’t a need to have more than one. We had A/C. Water/sewer was not a bill at the time, but part of your municipal taxes. My mother never used coupons. We ate out as a family twice a month,

Today, you can’t do that unless you want to live in a hovel or have your life lived on the TLC network. Computer and internet connection is a “have to”, not an accessory. I wanted 4 kids, I had two. I had a hysterectomy…I’m fine with that. I’m happy with the 2 I have. If you think Catholics are not practicing birth control, either chemical or natural, I got a bridge to sell you.

WHy the snark? Not necessary. I never stated that people weren’t using birth control, not sure where that came from?

Houses are more expensive. But salaries are higher, too.

 

[Serap]

When my parents were married in '56. They lived in apt. Then when my sister and I were born, they lived in a duplex. (rented). My mom did not work outside the home. My dad worked in the meat packing industry. When they bought their first home in '63, dad’s income supported us. The house cost $15,000.00. You can’t buy a car for that amount today. We survived on “one” car because mom stayed home. We survived on one phone because really there wasn’t a need to have more than one. We had A/C. Water/sewer was not a bill at the time, but part of your municipal taxes. My mother never used coupons. We ate out as a family twice a month,

Today, you can’t do that unless you want to live in a hovel or have your life lived on the TLC network. Computer and internet connection is a “have to”, not an accessory. I wanted 4 kids, I had two. I had a hysterectomy…I’m fine with that. I’m happy with the 2 I have. If you think Catholics are not practicing birth control, either chemical or natural, I got a bridge to sell you.

I bet many women on this thread are using ABC, but are not fessing up.