Those who live by the law are judged by the law, and those who live by grace receive grace

[spauline]

Dear Maya,

I agree with Trish and po180: you need to get a basic synopsis of the faith. You should really consider RCIA. No one will force you to join. RCIA does not at all mean, I WILL join the Church. It is just to help you find out. If money is a problem, I am sure they could help you. We are here, but there is so much to the faith. You can ask a one sentence question, and we must respond with an essay.

There is a lot of depth.

THere is a USCCB version of the Catholic Catechism that is more compact than the big formal Catechism.

SInce I’m local to you, I’d be happy to loan it. We are here for you, but there is alot to cover.

I’m sorry for being extreme in the other responses, I tend to get carried away.

We are here for you and praying for you. Just say this prayer every day: Lord Jesus, I desire to follow you wherever you will lead and whatever it means. Sometimes, there may be suffering, but if we desire to know and serve Him as best as we can, we will have peace.

God bless you in your search.

Sincerely,
Scott

 

[po18guy]

spauline;4138733:

As a non-Catholic I’m free to live everyday for Jesus in love, kindness, charity - simple, no rules and regulations. As a Catholic, it seems like I will be focusing so much on the how/why’s whens/etc, that I will lose sight of the goal!

To be followers of Christ, we must live out the following words: “Deny yourself. Take up your cross daily. Then, follow me.” These we must do in the exact order in which Christ spoke them. To worship as you see fit is not a denial of self - rather, it can be an indulgence of self. We are called not to be slaves to sin, but rather slaves of Christ. It is only through slavery to Christ that we find true freedom.

 

[Linda_Marie]

The Rosary is another issue I’d have to deal with. Do we HAVE to say the Rosary? I’d feel better spending an hour in prayer pouring out my heart to God, or in Adoration (although I’m not sure I believe in that yet). Seems like nothing could be better than praying to God, talking to him, etc.

As others have said, the Rosary is a personal devotion said by choice. It is not mandatory. It is also one of the more difficult to master despite its popularity because some can never quite get the hang of saying one thing (the Hail Marys & Our Fathers) while deeply thinking about another (the principle Mysteries of the Life, Death and Resurrection of Jesus). It’s focus is Jesus. As a convert, I was a little hesitant myself and it took a while for me to get into it but the rewards in my spiritual life were worth the effort. Another devotion you might look into if the Rosary makes you uncomfortable, is the Liturgy of the Hours which prays Scripture with the whole Church. There are a number of threads on this devotion on the Spirituality forum, often abbreviated to LOTH.

Adoration is praying to God, talking to Him etc. It is just doing it in His Presence. It can either be with the Eucharist exposed or residing in the Tabernacle. You can go into a church at any time (assuming it is open) and spend time in prayer in the very Presence of God. Try it sometime.

Do you guys ever feel like these “disciples” are wrong? I’m thinking based on all the Scripture that says you don’t need to have more rules imposed on you (like eating or not eating meat/circumcision/celebrating certain feasts/fesivals, not marrying, etc).

Disciplines help us in our journey to Christ and should not be regarded as a burden. As an analogy, if there were no rules of the road, getting from one place to another would be extremely hazardous. So too is our faith journey. Disciplines are like rules of the road to help all of us reach our destination.

Jesus, himself, recommended fasting and prayer. The disciplines of the Church help us to accomplish this in union with other Christians. From the Liturgy of the Hours site linked above:

1. Public and common prayer by the people of God is rightly considered to be among the primary duties of the Church. From the very beginning those who were baptised “devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the community, to the breaking of the bread, and to prayer” (Acts 2:42). The Acts of the Apostles give frequent testimony to the fact that the Christian community prayed with one accord. [1]

As a non-Catholic I’m free to live everyday for Jesus in love, kindness, charity - simple, no rules and regulations. As a Catholic, it seems like I will be focusing so much on the how/why’s whens/etc, that I will lose sight of the goal!]

There is nothing in being Catholic that will stop you from being free to live every day for Jesus in love, kindness and charity. In fact, these are pretty much requirements for a Catholic. The how/whys & whens become second nature after a while and you hardly ever think about them. As others have said, the basic requirements of the Church are really pretty minimal. There is just not that much to have to remember.

Mass on Sunday and Holy Days of Obligation, Confession and Holy Communion at least once a year, fasting and abstinence on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, abstinence on Fridays of Lent (only 6 days). Have I left anything out??

 

[mesl4]

mesl4;4139555:

To be followers of Christ, we must live out the following words: “Deny yourself. Take up your cross daily. Then, follow me.” These we must do in the exact order in which Christ spoke them…

That’s what I do in my church. It is just not specified as to what day, how, etc. We have freedom in that regard. Not freedom to sin, but freedom to worship Christ in the way we want. If we love him, we will not want to worship him in a wrong way (if that were possible) .Again, it comes down to me not being sure the Catholic church is right in saying it has this earthly authority. I’ve been trained to believe all authority is in heaven…Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. so if I then follow and earthly kingdom that seems to contradict his teachings, I’d be putting man above him! In my background, we are taught to evaluate all teachings w/what the Bible says. Which is why I’ve never really believed this “once saved always saved” thing. - except maybe that the truly saved will never fall away. If someone falls away, they were never really saved to begin with. But that’s tricky because we never really know if our heart is right either.

But regarding authority, we should obey authority, unless the authority goes against God, then we choose God. How do I know the Early Church Fathers were not the ones who had gone astray? Or, that later leaders went astray in their teachings? The Catholic answer is that Christ set up his kingdom here on Earth to never pass away. We Protestants say his kingdom is the Church, the body of all believers…he is not in a literal Church though, but the unity of all those who believe in the gospel: that God sent his SOn to die as a ransom for us so we will be saved if we confess and repent, and believe. He rose from the dead and we too will raise like him and be with him. We don’t think it matters for our salvation the ,L M N …Z theology, just the A, B, C theology… if that makes sense. Honestly, I wonder if maybe only the A theology matters. Sometimes I think even the heretics/other religions will be saved as long as their heart is sincerely trying to please God. That seems Biblical to me. Not that everyone become exactly like each other, but that we all are unified because of our love for God, no matter where we go to Church, or when, or how, or even if we understand the Trinity. Like Mormons/JWs etc who truly love Jesus and devout their lives to serving and doing his will. Is God really going to send them to hell because they don’t understand how Father, Son, and HS are related? Do any of us really understand? Sorry, I know I’ve written tons of different subjects in this post.

 

[mesl4]

Of course you can be nourished in Protestant communities. But not as much as in the Catohlic Church. You only have two sacraments in the Protestants sects: Baptism and Marriage. You don’t have Communion, or Confirmation, or Confession, or Holy Orders, or Annointing of the Sick. You also lack much truth. You can never fully understand Scripture without Tradition.

 

[mesl4]

Adoration is praying to God, talking to Him etc. It is just doing it in His Presence. It can either be with the Eucharist exposed or residing in the Tabernacle. You can go into a church at any time (assuming it is open) and spend time in prayer in the very Presence of God. Try it sometime.

If I"m not Catholic am I allowed to do this? I’ve wanted to but was afraid I’d do something wrong or be sent out or something.

 

[mercygate]

spauline;4138733:

But I’m nourished in the Baptist church I attend now, and even when I don’t go, I still read the Bible and pray and am nourished in that way. I haven’t fallen away yet. I’ve just grown closer.

but the law is supposed to be written on our hearts and if there are all these disciples, they are not on my heart but imposed by the Church. I would never know of them w/out being told. As a non-Catholic I’m free to live everyday for Jesus in love, kindness, charity - simple, no rules and regulations. As a Catholic, it seems like I will be focusing so much on the how/why’s whens/etc, that I will lose sight of the goal!

You are giving yourself indigestion by worrying about things you haven’t even discovered yet. Take it slowly, one day at a time.

There really are no “rules” for Catholics that don’t come naturally to a practicing Christian. Mandatory Mass on Sunday? That’s how we live the commandment to Keep the Sabbath Holy. Friday disciplines? They are “trivial” and they express our commemoration of the Lord’s passion and death. Confession? Well, a Christian WANTS to be ‘right with God’ and doesn’t NEED a rule . . . Contraception? A good Baptist understands the divine mandate to do things God’s way in marriage.

A good Baptist will often make the very BEST Catholic! Big hugs to you and welcome to the House!

 

[mercygate]

spauline;4139631:

We have those things, we just don’t use the word “Sacraments.”
There are many heresies in evangelicalism. We confess to God and the ones we offend/sin against, we confirm our beliefs w/baptism, and words,and our lifestyle, we have communion every wk at my church, but it is not believed like Catholics believe (transubstantiation), we annoint the sick sometimes, or just pray for them other times. I think some denominations have Holy Orders, our just has different leaders (Pastors, Asst. Pastor, elders, teachers, leaders, etc.)

YES! That’s why I’m hesitant about the Catholic Church!

Yes I fear God, that’s why I’m cautious in making these decisions. I never believed I cant’ lose my salvation. If that were the case, it wouldn’t matter which church I belonged to because I wouldn’t do anything that would send me to hell!

Maybe you have just a teensy-weensy touch of what we call “scrupulosity.” This is an undue dread of doing something wrong in spiritual matters.

God (and the Catholic Church) are not in the business of tormenting people with a bunch of formalistic procedures that determine your salvation. It is ALL about grace and mercy.

Hugs.

 

[mesl4]

Dear Maya,

I agree with Trish and po180: you need to get a basic synopsis of the faith. You should really consider RCIA. No one will force you to join. RCIA does not at all mean, I WILL join the Church. It is just to help you find out. If money is a problem, I am sure they could help you.

 

[mercygate]

If I"m not Catholic am I allowed to do this? I’ve wanted to but was afraid I’d do something wrong or be sent out or something.

Anybody who respects the belief that this is the Body of Christ is absolutely welcome to attend Adoration. You don’t even need to believe that He is there. We just ask that you respect OUR belief that He is there!

Go ahead. Just BE with Him there. Ask HIM whatever you like (of course you can do this in your own living room as well, but His Eucharistic presence is another thing altogether).

 

[mesl4]

Anybody who respects the belief that this is the Body of Christ is absolutely welcome to attend Adoration. You don’t even need to believe that He is there. We just ask that you respect OUR belief that He is there!

Go ahead. Just BE with Him there. Ask HIM whatever you like (of course you can do this in your own living room as well, but His Eucharistic presence is another thing altogether).

Is there an minimum age requirement? I mean, would I be able to bring my 3 or 6 yr old if they were quiet and respectful?

 

[mercygate]

Is there an minimum age requirement? I mean, would I be able to bring my 3 or 6 yr old if they were quiet and respectful?

Certainly. Now, this IS a place where people tend to enter into a deep, personal, contemplative kind of prayer, so silence IS the rule. But everybody understands if a little one doesn’t “get it” and needs to be taken out.

Just don’t get the idea that because THIS particular devotion really requires attentive silence and because THIS particular devotion is generally for more mature people that children are “unwelcome” in a Catholic Church. Children are at the heart of the faith.

Come to think of it, many Baptist churches have a whole separate department for children and do not admit them to the sanctuary until they are able to handle it comfortably. Same thing – in a way.

You sound like you have a lot of common sense.

Actually, as a newcomer, you, yourself might be more comfortable trying this out the first time without distractions (Mom’s of little ones always have a lot of “private” time to themselves . . .).

 

[po18guy]

But regarding authority, we should obey authority, unless the authority goes against God, then we choose God. How do I know the Early Church Fathers were not the ones who had gone astray? Or, that later leaders went astray in their teachings?

If the early church fathers went astray, then all worship, all scripture is corrupted, and the gates of hell did, indeed, prevail against Christ’s church. Christ alone said this would not happen. Translation: If you are happy as a Baptist, you have the opportunity of being even happier as a Catholic.

The Catholic answer is that Christ set up his kingdom here on Earth to never pass away. We Protestants say his kingdom is the Church, the body of all believers…he is not in a literal Church though, but the unity of all those who believe in the gospel:

His Kingdom is Heaven. On earth, He founded His church, which is His visible body. It is visible, real, tangible. It remains mystical, which implies a supernatural relationship with God. That is what separates us from non-believers.

It it obvious that you are seeking a deeper, fuller relationship with Christ. What could be better than to stand in His physical presence, to eat His Body and drink His Blood as spiritual food and drink? We quite understand your reluctance, as it is akin to leaving this life for eternal life. Everyone wants to go to Heaven, but no one wants to go tonight!

Pray over this, read the resources you have been given. You are full of questions. The Lord is the Answer. Speak with him over this and He will give you the leading of the Holy Spirit, which will reassure your spirit as to what to do.

Christ’s peace.

.

 

[Linda_Marie]

If I"m not Catholic am I allowed to do this? I’ve wanted to but was afraid I’d do something wrong or be sent out or something.

There is no ‘membership’ check at the door and all are welcome. Don’t worry about doing something wrong. Just watch what other people do. Even if you don’t stand, sit, or kneel in union with the others, you will not be sent out.

God had made it clear to me that the Catholic Church was where He wanted me to be, so I just presented myself at the parish and told them I wanted to be Catholic. The next RCIA class was not starting until the next September (this was December) so I had to wait. In the meantime, I joined the parish prayer group and they encouraged me to attend Adoration. All of this was quite new to me because I wasn’t even a Christian or Baptised or anything. If I was welcome, you certainly will be.

At Adoration, in the beginning when the priest enters, all stand, then all kneel when he removes the Eucharist from the Tabernacle and installs the large Host in the Monstrance. All remain kneeling while a few prayers are read. Then it is free-form, so to speak where you can adopt any posture you desire in which to pray and there are no formal prayers, just what you bring yourself, you can read Scripture and contemplate what you have read, or just talk to God. I find that I alternate between kneeling and sitting. At the end of the hour, the priest returns, all kneel and a few more prayers are said before the Host is returned to the Tabernacle. There may or may not be Benediction, where the priest will bless everyone with the Eucharist. I still don’t have all these prayers memorised and they should have cards or sheets with them printed so you can join in.

Is there an minimum age requirement? I mean, would I be able to bring my 3 or 6 yr old if they were quiet and respectful?

Obviously, an hours’ quiet time might be taxing for a small one, but I’ve attended Adoration where others have brought their small children. We have learned to cope with distractions. As my husband is fond of saying, “Any church which forbids ABC, cannot complain about children.” Besides, it is good for them, too. Frankly, we’d rather have you there with children in tow, than not attend at all.

Alternatively, if you fear distracting others, you can just go to the church anytime it is open and sit and pray in the Presence without anything else going on or anyone else there. I sometimes have my most productive prayer just going to the chapel and praying on my own.

Either way, or I should say, both ways, you are welcome.

I plan to take RCIA. It starts this month Now I didn’t know there was a charge. Is that right? I saw something about kids Sunday School also w/a charge. Even for preschoolers to be in some sort of childcare during mass? Or does that even happen? Is that right? DOesn’t that fall under the simony category? (charging for spiritual things?) That’s like paying to go to church! Oh dear. Another hesitation…

There is no charge for RCIA. What might incur an expense are the books or other materials you will need. If buying the books would be a hardship for you, I’m sure some arrangements could be made to assist you.

I can’t address what is done in the parish close to you but in our parish, there is no charge for Little Church (Sunday School). We don’t have any childcare facilities so all the kids are at Mass with us. When I was in the States (in Houston), there was no charge for the pre-schoolers’ childcare during Mass.

 

[fewnotmany]

or something like that…I can’t remember the verse, but the New Testament somewhere teaches that. So, why would we want to impose more rules on ourselves? .

Since no one has addressed the original question . . .

Romans 2:12 -
For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

The context of Paul’s letter is that both the Jews and the Gentiles are held accountable for doing the Law.

In that context, with respects to your question, proclaiming one as Catholic or Jewish is not enough.

John 3:21 -
“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

 

[mesl4]

Since no one has addressed the original question . . .

Romans 2:12 -
For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

The context of Paul’s letter is that both the Jews and the Gentiles are held accountable for doing the Law.

In that context, with respects to your question, proclaiming one as Catholic or Jewish is not enough.

John 3:21 -
“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

Ahhh! I get it! Thank you! I guess we really got off tangent.:newidea: