"Thou shalt not disapprove publicly of the homosexual lifestyle."

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Just came across this article, which gives me some hope. It’s an interview with Fr. Paul Check, director of the Courage ministry. In the course of the interview he has some interesting things to say about sexual identity, human identity, the practice of chastity by all of us, and being cheerful in the face of a hostile civilization.
 
So you are in favor of SSM? … and those other ‘inevitible’ things you mentioned?

The truth is the truth… even if no one believes it,
and a lie is a lie, even if everyone believes it…
I support marriage equality. I support a woman’s reproductive rights. I support freedom of conscience…I support the right to practice my faith without government interference.

I do not support unlawful discrimination based upon a false belief that somehow one’s religous beliefs entitles one to discriminate against others when they operate a business that caters to the public. I support those who do not believe in marriage equality their right to not support it…no one is asking for them to participate…just provide the product they are in business to provide…if I want to feed a wedding cake to a dog…the business owner I purchase the cake from has no right to tell me how to use the product I purchased from them because they find it “religiously objectionable”.

Your rights end where mine begin…you do not have the right to dictate that I accept your morals nor do I have the right to dictate you accept mine…that’s the difference between “liberals” and “conservatives”.

Liberals want equal rights for everyone. You hold your beliefs…I’ll hold mine.

Conservatves demand that I accept their morality because “it’s what is right for me”…Conservatives demand that they should be able to dictate to others how they live their lives and “punish” or “discriminate” against them if they don’t “tow the line” the conservative decrees…liberals think each of us knows best what is good for us…liberals don’t need an organization to dictate morals…liberals are able to decide for themselves…conservatives point to an organization’s dictates that everyone conform or suffer the consequences…liberals choose not to bow to anyone to determine how our lives are lived…liberals get to decide how they live their lives and it is not by the conservatives decree of what is acceptable or not.

If you don’t approve of marriage equality…don’t marry someone of the same sex…but do not demand that others embrace your beliefs.

Disapprove all you like…but do not seek to enforce that disapproval upon me or others…your faith is yours to live…your faith does not have the authority to determine what beliefs and morals I embrace…we must live within the framework of our common laws.
 
What amazes me is how swiftly gay behavior became the the norm though the use of the media! This occurred throughout the West in a matter of a few short years! Now, if only the media used its influence to make people aware that extreme poverty is a crime against humanity!
This is a really important point in many ways.

Media and communications people—top editors and producers----are more influential than preachers and teachers and legislators.

They are unelected. They shape minds by the millions.

ME, I would just like them to assert the idea of a common good.
 
Respectfully disagree with our Quaker brother above.

We have minds, we must use them, and we have values and must, in good conscience, apply them.
 
Liberals want equal rights for everyone. You hold your beliefs…I’ll hold mine.
Not true at all. Liberals want equal rights for everyone who agrees with their view of “rights”. Everyone else is intolerant, homophobic, racist or bigoted.

Peace

Tim
 
I support marriage equality. I support a woman’s reproductive rights. I support freedom of conscience…I support the right to practice my faith without government interference.

I do not support unlawful discrimination based upon a false belief that somehow one’s religous beliefs entitles one to discriminate against others when they operate a business that caters to the public. I support those who do not believe in marriage equality their right to not support it…no one is asking for them to participate…just provide the product they are in business to provide…if I want to feed a wedding cake to a dog…the business owner I purchase the cake from has no right to tell me how to use the product I purchased from them because they find it “religiously objectionable”.

Your rights end where mine begin…you do not have the right to dictate that I accept your morals nor do I have the right to dictate you accept mine…that’s the difference between “liberals” and “conservatives”.

Liberals want equal rights for everyone. You hold your beliefs…I’ll hold mine.

Conservatves demand that I accept their morality because “it’s what is right for me”…Conservatives demand that they should be able to dictate to others how they live their lives and “punish” or “discriminate” against them if they don’t “tow the line” the conservative decrees…liberals think each of us knows best what is good for us…liberals don’t need an organization to dictate morals…liberals are able to decide for themselves…conservatives point to an organization’s dictates that everyone conform or suffer the consequences…liberals choose not to bow to anyone to determine how our lives are lived…liberals get to decide how they live their lives and it is not by the conservatives decree of what is acceptable or not.

If you don’t approve of marriage equality…don’t marry someone of the same sex…but do not demand that others embrace your beliefs.

Disapprove all you like…but do not seek to enforce that disapproval upon me or others…your faith is yours to live…your faith does not have the authority to determine what beliefs and morals I embrace…we must live within the framework of our common laws.
And yet there are some ramifications to that which seem to turn out in the opposite way. Liberal courts have forced Catholic adoption agencies to provide children to gay couples or close. HHS forces Catholic institutions to act against their conscience by providing for birth control, sterilization, and abortifacients. Schools will force children to be taught the acceptability of same sex marriage, making them reject their own religious beliefs. What it comes down to is that we will all be forced to accept the tenets of the state religion, which include acceptance of gay marriage, contraception, abortion.

As to gay marriage, no civilization has ever accepted the union of same sex couples as the equivalent of marriage. It is a social experiement which will end badly, but it was preceded by other social experiments which have led to social disintegration and sexual chaos.
 
I support marriage equality. I support a woman’s reproductive rights. I support freedom of conscience…I support the right to practice my faith without government interference.

I do not support unlawful discrimination based upon a false belief that somehow one’s religous beliefs entitles one to discriminate against others when they operate a business that caters to the public. ** I support those who do not believe in marriage equality their right to not support it…no one is asking for them to participate…just provide the product they are in business to provide…if I want to feed a wedding cake to a dog…the business owner I purchase the cake from has no right to tell me how to use the product I purchased from them because they find it “religiously objectionable”. **

Your rights end where mine begin…you do not have the right to dictate that I accept your morals nor do I have the right to dictate you accept mine…that’s the difference between “liberals” and “conservatives”.

Liberals want equal rights for everyone. You hold your beliefs…I’ll hold mine.

Conservatves demand that I accept their morality because “it’s what is right for me”…Conservatives demand that they should be able to dictate to others how they live their lives and “punish” or “discriminate” against them if they don’t “tow the line” the conservative decrees…liberals think each of us knows best what is good for us…liberals don’t need an organization to dictate morals…liberals are able to decide for themselves…conservatives point to an organization’s dictates that everyone conform or suffer the consequences…liberals choose not to bow to anyone to determine how our lives are lived…liberals get to decide how they live their lives and it is not by the conservatives decree of what is acceptable or not.

If you don’t approve of marriage equality…don’t marry someone of the same sex…but do not demand that others embrace your beliefs.

Disapprove all you like…but do not seek to enforce that disapproval upon me or others…your faith is yours to live…your faith does not have the authority to determine what beliefs and morals I embrace…we must live within the framework of our common laws.
Well, you could minimize, be disdainful even, of a baker’s business decision which will not conflict with his faith.

I have come across dog loving people so much so that they hold birthday parties, serving a birthday cake for their pooch and party attendants, LOL. Likely, a baker, Catholic or not, faithful or not, would have no problems supplying the cake.

You may not agree, but I support a baker’s right to decline to provide a custom wedding cake for a same sex couple “tying the knot” in the belief that that would be supporting if not participating in a celebration of the unholy, which would be against his religious belief. There are plenty bakeries who would take their business. Suing the baker would be intolerant, punitive and comes across as malicious. One could even say heterophobic and bigoted! It would be different if a couple comes in, orders a cake for some occasion, and they supply their own groom-groom or bride-bride pair as wedding cake decoration on top.

Marriage “equality” supporters have no right to force their kind of morality on others.
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And yet there are some ramifications to that which seem to turn out in the opposite way. Liberal courts have forced Catholic adoption agencies to provide children to gay couples or close. HHS forces Catholic institutions to act against their conscience by providing for birth control, sterilization, and abortifacients. Schools will force children to be taught the acceptability of same sex marriage, making them reject their own religious beliefs. What it comes down to is that we will all be forced to accept the tenets of the state religion, which include acceptance of gay marriage, contraception, abortion.

As to gay marriage, no civilization has ever accepted the union of same sex couples as the equivalent of marriage. It is a social experiement which will end badly, but it was preceded by other social experiments which have led to social disintegration and sexual chaos.
Were those agencies which closed of their own choosing accepting federal/government monies and thereby placed themselves under the guidelines of the government which require non-discrimination?

Were they “forced” to close or did they have a choice? Could they have refused to accept any government funding?

No one…NO ONE forced them to close…it was a choice…not force.
 
Well, you could minimize, be disdainful even, of a baker’s business decision which will not conflict with his faith.

I have come across dog loving people so much so that they hold birthday parties, serving a birthday cake for their pooch and party attendants, LOL. Likely, a baker, Catholic or not, faithful or not, would have no problems supplying the cake.

You may not agree, but I support a baker’s right to decline to provide a custom wedding cake for a same sex couple “tying the knot” in the belief that that would be supporting if not participating in a celebration of the unholy, which would be against his religious belief. There are plenty bakeries who would take their business. Suing the baker would be intolerant, punitive and comes across as malicious. One could even say heterophobic and bigoted! It would be different if a couple comes in, orders a cake for some occasion, and they supply their own groom-groom or bride-bride pair as wedding cake decoration on top.

Marriage “equality” supporters have no right to force their kind of morality on others.
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You have the right to hold your beliefs…you do not have the right to discriminate against a minority because your personal beliefs conflict with the law of the land…a law that was agreed upon to be obeyed when a business license was issued to you.
 
Were those agencies which closed of their own choosing accepting federal/government monies and thereby placed themselves under the guidelines of the government which require non-discrimination?

Were they “forced” to close or did they have a choice? Could they have refused to accept any government funding?

No one…NO ONE forced them to close…it was a choice…not force.
In many states, prohibitions against discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation apply regardless of whether or not anyone receives federal funding. Yes, they would have had to close or cease being Catholic, federal funding or not. The baker who was sued by a gay couple was not receiving federal funding. It’s either adhere to the state approved religion or close up shop.
 
You have the right to hold your beliefs…you do not have the right to discriminate against a minority because your personal beliefs conflict with the law of the land…a law that was agreed upon to be obeyed when a business license was issued to you.
The reason for withholding the service or product in the contested cases is not the client’s sexual orientation, or the customer being a homosexual person, which would be discrimination. It is for an action or behavior with which a person of faith in the course of a business transaction has the right to NOT take a part in. It is expression of a deeply held religious belief, a first amendment right.

People in the food business service, for example, would be sued for reason for withholding to serve customers who merely come across as gay in dress, mannerism or demeanor. However, if they begin to use the place as a cruising or pick up place, the owner can rightfully withhold service.

This is not about minority rights. Demands of gays on society are getting more and more shrill.
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I’m waiting to see how and when the “undermining” of “civilization” occurs…been hearing a lot about it…but don’t see it in those countries or states that already have same sex marriage…I think the “end of civilization” is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors the conservative like to tout to strike fear in people…thinks are going along just fine.🙂
If you don’t see the crumbling of society then you are not looking around you. SSM is the next brick to crumble.
 
When states introduced gay marriage, they wanted it as a way for all citizens to be able to marry. Not as liberal indoctrination on those who don’t support it. I’m fine with same-sex marriage, but that’s honestly starting to kind of change. Sometimes, I wish same-sex marriage was outlawed and put into the Constitution of every state: “Marriage shall be between one man and one woman, full stop” so people would silence themselves and stop trying to attack the people with faith who have their beliefs.
 
When states introduced gay marriage, they wanted it as a way for all citizens to be able to marry. Not as liberal indoctrination on those who don’t support it. I’m fine with same-sex marriage, but that’s honestly starting to kind of change. Sometimes, I wish same-sex marriage was outlawed and put into the Constitution of every state: “Marriage shall be between one man and one woman, full stop” so people would silence themselves and stop trying to attack the people with faith who have their beliefs.
A definition of marriage as between one man and one woman has been put into the constitution of some states. That will not stop appeals courts from overturning such provisions, since the U.S. Supreme Court considers itself in some respects to be the supreme lawmaker, rather than states, legislatures, Congress, or the people.
 
Well…I don’t hold a “Chicken Little” mentality.🤷
I’m optimistic by nature but there seems to be little doubt that societal changes – that are good for quality of life – have no doubt contributed to the erosion of our Judeo-Christian values. Technology, leisure time and disposable income would be the major factors.

Technology will continue to bring improved quality of life. There has been a lag between the technological advances and the social and cultural maturity required to deal with it. I think.
 
Were those agencies which closed of their own choosing accepting federal/government monies and thereby placed themselves under the guidelines of the government which require non-discrimination?

Were they “forced” to close or did they have a choice? Could they have refused to accept any government funding?

No one…NO ONE forced them to close…it was a choice…not force.
You realize federal funds have nothing to do with the HHS mandate to pay for contraception, correct? The old federal funding argument is a myth. It is no longer a factor on whether the heavy hand of the government can force you to violate your religious beliefs.

You are also arguing that no one forced them to work against their will; they had the option of closing, which is like robbing someone at gunpoint, and saying they had the option of being shot if they really didn’t want to be robbed. It’s nonsense from a side that could not care less about religious freedom or the values of the Catholic Church, frankly, which is really all this board is concerned with, at its core.
 
Well…I don’t hold a “Chicken Little” mentality.🤷
No, you don’t have an issue with the further spread of SSM and its legitimacy. Why would you see any problem with it?

For your side, over turn Roe vs Wade and see if pro-choice women react as if the sky was falling…
 
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