Thought process of non Christians who use the New Testament

[Servant19]

The short of it, there is no such truth. And therefore you are against the truth of God itself.

From the beginning there is division among humans once God decided to give them free will. The lack of unity, ironically, enforced by God Himself, in the episode of the Tower of Babel. Not that God want man to disunite, but that’s his nature.

The thing God did was to give salvation by sending His own Son, with a condition that only those who believe will obtain that salvation .

The sending of the Holy Spirit is so that man would be helped in living out a life that requires him to be saved thus acknowledging its difficulty due to man’s fallen nature. Those choose to believe and thus become believers, will be united by the power of the Holy Spirit.

So be careful when you suggest something because it may not what it is to be.

My friend, that Truth is very much available for all to see today. You just need to get out a little and look for it.

To say that the unity of mankind is impossible is dismissing what is happening as I write this post, on every country, state, island and territory on the planet

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[Servant19]

Yet tells me “not to eat meat but only vegetables”. “Eating Fish gives you bad thoughts”.

Since this pertains to material things, if science backs it, then listen to your friend

“If you are Christian, be a good Christian” ,

And the problem with saying that is…???

And if he gives you good, sound theological evidence of this:

“Sai Baba will return to the earth and will be found as a 12 year old boy teaching in the Temple”?

Then please show me so I can dismiss it by showing you the court cases of indecency Sai Baba has faced in the past.

Extra-marital sexual allegations doth not make a prophet…

I say, examine the Bab and Baha’u’llah for even one (just one) speck of sin…

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[Reuben_J]

My friend, that Truth is very much available for all to see today. You just need to get out a little and look for it.

To say that the unity of mankind is impossible is dismissing what is happening as I write this post, on every country, state, island and territory on the planet

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That I would say is quite a baloney. The thing we want may not necessarily the truth.

You didn’t address my post and you didn’t state how your terrific idea works. That’s not the way I want in a discussion. The reason why I bother to research my mind in answering this is because of the terribly wild idea that you stated. Having said that I may be converted if your explanation is with good foundation.

 

[MartinJordan]

This post proves that there is more Truth needed to be revealed and you, as a member of the Church cannot answer the questions you pose in your own post

There is so much more Truth that could not be revealed, and those clinging to what Jesus said 2000 years ago and reviling what He has spoken today are in effect hindering His Will on earth…

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Which part proves more Truth is needed?

Constructive analysis please.

MJ

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The implications for all Faiths is “God is One” and that it is God that guides us.

It would support scripture that tells us, low and behold, man gets it wrong!

That only in complete Humility is the Love of God and the Unity of Mankind acceptable.

Wonderful is it not! God has blessed us and showers Hos Blessings upon us all.

Regards Tony

I notice with every response you shift the topic to some other thing. You bring up Jesup being the comforter then decide to Ignore a response. You tell us our idea of Christ is deficient and you do not clarify when asked. Now you have resorted to meaningless slogans of Love and peace.

You needn’t respond because know basically what you will say, something hollow and insubstantial.

 

[Servant19]

Which part proves more Truth is needed?

Constructive analysis please.

MJ

“One man says “you can eat meat” the other “you shouldn’t eat meat”, One man says there is no God, other man says there is. One man says “worship on Sunday” other “Saturday” and yet another “Friday”. One man says “I pray 5 times a day”, other man says “everytime I work it is a prayer”, yet another will say “pray once a week is enough” . The other “why should I pray, I am still poor and it never works”.”

This is a true observation of reality that Reuben has presented…

How do we unite such diverse thoughts and opinions?

The comprehensive educational system to create an ever advancing civilization based on spiritual values, now institutionalizing on the planet is the only solution for a world shredding itself apart and disintegrating before our eyes.

*This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.*

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[MartinJordan]

Since this pertains to material things, if science backs it, then listen to your friend

Then you’ve missed the point because it’s not about carnal matters that is important for Life (everlasting Life).

And the problem with saying that is…???

So you agree with Sai Baba?

And if he gives you good, sound theological evidence of this:

Then please show me so I can dismiss it by showing you the court cases of indecency Sai Baba has faced in the past.

Extra-marital sexual allegations doth not make a prophet…

I say, examine the Bab and Baha’u’llah for even one (just one) speck of sin…

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I’m only talking about experience with a devotee. Not about supporting this devotee whether he believes in the Sai Baba’s words and what the SB has done.

This devotee also misses the point about Food. Outside of the Authority that gave the Bible, it’s not surprising. Reading the Bible back to front twice just doesn’t suffice clearly.

So, what is the next step? Tell this devotee be unified with who and what?

MJ

 

[Servant19]

That I would say is quite a baloney. The thing we want may not necessarily the truth.

You didn’t address my post and you didn’t state how your terrific idea works. That’s not the way I want in a discussion. The reason why I bother to research my mind in answering this is because of the terribly wild idea that you stated. Having said that I may be converted if your explanation is with good foundation.

You can start here:

ruhi.org/

and here:

globalprosperity.org/



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[MartinJordan]

“One man says “you can eat meat” the other “you shouldn’t eat meat”, One man says there is no God, other man says there is. One man says “worship on Sunday” other “Saturday” and yet another “Friday”. One man says “I pray 5 times a day”, other man says “everytime I work it is a prayer”, yet another will say “pray once a week is enough” . The other “why should I pray, I am still poor and it never works”.”

This is a true observation of reality that Reuben has presented…

Are you speaking for Reuben?

How do we unite such diverse thoughts and opinions?

The point is missed again.

The comprehensive educational system to create an ever advancing civilization based on spiritual values, now institutionalizing on the planet is the only solution for a world shredding itself apart and disintegrating before our eyes.

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As it was in the beginning…take care of the Earth was God’s instruction to man already.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Then you’ve missed the point because it’s not about carnal matters that is important for Life (everlasting Life).

You talk about the matters he raised as if it was poor advice. If someone gives you advice about food, research it…

So you agree with Sai Baba?

No I agree with the statement, whether it was St. Paul saying it, or Hitler saying it.
For some reason, too many people cannot appreciate a truth irrespective of the source of the Truth.
It needs to be given to you by someone you trust, and then you say “Yes! This is truth”

I’m only talking about experience with a devotee. Not about supporting this devotee whether he believes in the Sai Baba’s words and what the SB has done.

This devotee also misses the point about Food. Outside of the Authority that gave the Bible, it’s not surprising. Reading the Bible back to front twice just doesn’t suffice clearly.

So, what is the next step? Tell this devotee be unified with who and what?

MJ

Be unified in acknowledging Truth, no matter what the source is.

Too many Catholics do not understand the implications of what the Church has stated in many of its statements and documents…

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[MartinJordan]

You talk about the matters he raised as if it was poor advice. If someone gives you advice about food, research it…

No. I never said it was poor advice (which is carnal) Advice is man’s trying to explain things without God’s Will.

No I agree with the statement, whether it was St. Paul saying it, or Hitler saying it.
For some reason, too many people cannot appreciate a truth irrespective of the source of the Truth.
It needs to be given to you by someone you trust, and then you say “Yes! This is truth”

Are you angry Servant?

Why Hitler suddenly?

Be unified in acknowledging Truth, no matter what the source is.

What do you mean by “no matter what the source is”? As Pontius Pilate asked “what is Truth”?

Too many Catholics do not understand the implications of what the Church has stated in many of its statements and documents…

.

Kindly clarify what you mean in a calm, constructive manner. Thanks.

MJ

 

[Reuben_J]

This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.

From where does this passage come from? I thought we are discussing the Bible and how is that the passage is introduced here?

Both Bahai posters here are using the Bible, specifically the Holy Spirit, from Jn 16:12-13. Are you now saying that the said Biblical verses are connected to the above passage?

I have bolded the part, and that is not Biblical. It is not supported Biblically and got nothing to do with the Holy Spirit, His function which does not cover that.

What does it mean by reconciling their differences? Do you know what that means? Do you realize what you are asking and its implication?

Can good and evil be mixed? Can sins be excused and justified?

God in the Bible is clear on this issue. The only way is Jesus and He is the only truth. There will be people who do not accept Him. Hell and heaven is a reality revealed by God. There will be judgment and some will go to heaven, while some to Hell. This is clear division among humankind and you are promoting the idea which is definitely not the truth of God.

 

[Servant19]

No. I never said it was poor advice (which is carnal) Advice is man’s trying to explain things without God’s Will.

What is God’s Will in relation to nutrition Martin?
Is scientific “advice” to be shunned?

Are you angry Servant?

Why Hitler suddenly?

Is every person who mentions Hitler angry? lol

Please Martin, let us stay calm and considered…read what I wrote and look for the “moral of the story” within it…

And the Authority to decide unification is?

Today, it is Baha’u’llah

Kindly clarify what you mean in a calm, constructive manner. Thanks.

MJ

“The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim, Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6) in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to himself.”

Can you give me a list what the Church revers in those “ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings” which come from other religions?

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[Servant19]

From where does this passage come from? I thought we are discussing the Bible and how is that the passage is introduced here?

Both Bahai posters here are using the Bible, specifically the Holy Spirit, from Jn 16:12-13. Are you now saying that the said Biblical verses are connected to the above passage?

I have bolded the part, and that is not Biblical. It is not supported Biblically and got nothing to do with the Holy Spirit, His function which does not cover that.

What does it mean by reconciling their differences? Do you know what that means? Do you realize what you are asking and its implication?

Can good and evil be mixed? Can sins be excused and justified?

God in the Bible is clear on this issue. The only way is Jesus and He is the only truth. There will be people who do not accept Him. Hell and heaven is a reality revealed by God. There will be judgment and some will go to heaven, while some to Hell. This is clear division among humankind and you are promoting the idea which is definitely not the truth of God.

You missed the bit in the quote that I underlined dear Reuben…

It si the Word of God for this Day, revealed by Baha’u’llah over 150 years ago…



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[Reuben_J]

You missed the bit in the quote that I underlined dear Reuben…

It si the Word of God for this Day, revealed by Baha’u’llah over 150 years ago…



.

So you tell me, which part of the revelation to Baha’ullah is connected and supported by the Bible, (specifically Jn 16:12-13, which was quoted earlier on)?

I had bold Baha’ullah’ Word of God for this Day, and I said it is heresy, untruth and not supported Biblically.

 

[MartinJordan]

What is God’s Will in relation to nutrition Martin?
Is scientific “advice” to be shunned?

Everlasting life by Science?

Is every person who mentions Hitler angry? lol

Please Martin, let us stay calm and considered…read what I wrote and look for the “moral of the story” within it…

I rest in Jesus. He gives me Peace.

Now, Hitler meanwhile didn’t rest in Jesus. St. Paul rested in Jesus. That’s why I asked if you are angry. How is Hitler connected with Truth? (Full of grace and Truth)?

Today it is Baha’u’llah

He gave the New Testament which people still read today?

“The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim, Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6) in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to himself.”

Can you give me a list what the Church revers in those “ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings” which come from other religions?

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Have a look and digest this link :

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

I notice with every response you shift the topic to some other thing. You bring up Jesup being the comforter then decide to Ignore a response. You tell us our idea of Christ is deficient and you do not clarify when asked. Now you have resorted to meaningless slogans of Love and peace.

You needn’t respond because know basically what you will say, something hollow and insubstantial.

What If I was to say the Apex of Knowledge gifted in this day is the Oneness of God.

If I was to say that there is only One God, that this One God is Unknowable and Unapproachable even to the Manifestations of God such as Moses, Jesus Christ, Muhammad the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

That each of these Manifestations are from the Same Holy Spirit, that they are all One given by God in Each age to enable man to Know and to Love God, that this process is progressive as man becomes more mature.

That each Manifestation was Given by God the Message He was to Deliver with the Laws applicable for the age they were given, that this message was Given by God to Moses, to Jesus, to Muhammad and to the Bab through the Father, the Father Being Baha’u’llah.

That all the Manifestations share this Oneness in the delivering the Word of the One and Only God, what would be the response

Could it be that the reply may echo the posted accusation

What I have found in life is if I think or respond negativity, then it is only part of my self and a reflection of me, it is not of God. It is worth considering

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

So you tell me, which part of the revelation to Baha’ullah is connected and supported by the Bible, (specifically Jn 16:12-13, which was quoted earlier on)?

One could write a book on what parts of the Baha’u’llah’s Revelation is supported by the Bible (and many have) but I don’t understand what you are asking me in relation to John 16:12. Are you asking me to give you Biblical evidence for Truths now revealed which were not revealed by Jesus??

If it wasn’t revealed by Jesus, it wouldn’t be in the Bible. It’s the stuff NOT specifically revealed by Jesus which Baha’u’llah has now revealed for mankind to examine and put into practice…otherwise there would be no point to John 16:12.

I had bold Baha’ullah’ Word of God for this Day, and I said it is heresy, untruth and not supported Biblically.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is heresy, to a Jew. (your post is almost word for word the same as the Pharisees )

The followers of foundation religions always call the subsequent revelation a heresy.
Baha’u’llah is in good company on that one, thank you

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[TonyBS]

So you tell me, which part of the revelation to Baha’ullah is connected and supported by the Bible, (specifically Jn 16:12-13, which was quoted earlier on)?

I had bold Baha’ullah’ Word of God for this Day, and I said it is heresy, untruth and not supported Biblically.

This is answered in post 57

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

Everlasting life by Science?

Martin, where are you plucking all this from ???

Your Sai Baba friend didn’t say “Don’t eat meat and you will have everlasting life” did he???

Proverbs 25:27 It is not good to eat much honey…
(should you be shunning this verse too?)

Now, Hitler meanwhile didn’t rest in Jesus. St. Paul rested in Jesus. That’s why I asked if you are angry. How is Hitler connected with Truth? (Full of grace and Truth)?

You seem unable to separate the sin from the sinner, nor the good words from the speaker.

If Hitler said “in God, all things were made with love” and at the exact same time the Pope said “in God, all things were made with love” who would be the Truth speaker? (just in relation to that sentence)

He gave the New Testament which people still read today?

What has the New Testament got to do with it?
You asked for authority today, I gave you Baha’u’llah.

If you asked me the question 2000 years ago, I would say “Jesus Christ” without having to ask “Jesus gave the Torah which people still read today?”

Doesn’t make sense…

Have a look and digest this link :

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

MJ

There is much beauty in here. I appreciate it for all that is of God.



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