Thought process of non Christians who use the New Testament

[Servant19]

moses said that Jesus would come, a prophet greater than moses.

Jesus and His initial followers were all members of the jewish faith. christianity was not the end of judaism. it was the fulfillment of judaism.

Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of judaism.

as usual, we still do not know what men added to make the Gospel of Jesus Christ more complete. joseph smith more or less created a new gospel. there is no objective concept of continuity between smith and Jesus.

mohammed received his teachings from a spirit. they were not derived in continuity with judaism and christianity. they came directly from a spirit.

the teachings of bab and bahaullah also do not reflect ANY CONTINUITY with christianity and judaism. they, the bab and bahaullah, may be seen as having continuity with mohammed, i do not know since that is not an area i have spent much time studying. however, as we know, mohammed has no continuity with christianity or judaism. his teachings come entirely from a spirit that visited him in the fifth (?) century. since bab and bahaullah claim continuity with mohammed, that claim verifies that they have no continuity with christianity or judaism.

You are not answering questions dear eddie…

Which is the real God?

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[TonyBS]

moses said that Jesus would come, a prophet greater than moses.

Jesus and His initial followers were all members of the jewish faith. christianity was not the end of judaism. it was the fulfillment of judaism.

Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of judaism.

as usual, we still do not know what men added to make the Gospel of Jesus Christ more complete. joseph smith more or less created a new gospel. there is no objective concept of continuity between smith and Jesus.

mohammed received his teachings from a spirit. they were not derived in continuity with judaism and christianity. they came directly from a spirit.

the teachings of bab and bahaullah also do not reflect ANY CONTINUITY with christianity and judaism. they, the bab and bahaullah, may be seen as having continuity with mohammed, i do not know since that is not an area i have spent much time studying. however, as we know, mohammed has no continuity with christianity or judaism. his teachings come entirely from a spirit that visited him in the fifth (?) century. since bab and bahaullah claim continuity with mohammed, that claim verifies that they have no continuity with christianity or judaism.

Same story repeats itself, but still we make ourselves blind to the event;

Jesus also said that One Greater would come

John 1428"You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29"Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.…

Muslim, Babi and Bahai was not the end of Christianity it is also a Fullfillment

Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’ullah have fulfilled Prophesy from the Bible Scriptures as well, the Bab and Baha’u’llah the prophesy of many other scriptures.

Thy all got their Revelations from God, the same Spirit.

The writings of the Bible, Koran, from the Bab and Baha’u’llah are all complimentary and from the same source.

Man repeats His Mistakes

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

On what authority do you read the Old Testament Martin?

I’m baffled by what you are asserting here. Do you have authority to use the Old Testament as a means to prove to Jews that Jesus is the Messiah?

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Jesus authority through the Church he built.

Now, A return courtesy about the New Testament. Please. Thanks

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Same story repeats itself, but still we make ourselves blind to the event;

Jesus also said that One Greater would come

John 1428"You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29"Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.…

Muslim, Babi and Bahai was not the end of Christianity it is also a Fullfillment

Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’ullah have fulfilled Prophesy from the Bible Scriptures as well, the Bab and Baha’u’llah the prophesy of many other scriptures.

Thy all got their Revelations from God, the same Spirit.

The writings of the Bible, Koran, from the Bab and Baha’u’llah are all complimentary and from the same source.

Man repeats His Mistakes

Regards Tony

That’s why Jesus said “Listen!”. His Church is still doing his Will.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

So there must be at least 4 Gods then eddie, for the Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Nestorian Churches all claim the continuity of supernatural revelation and Gods entering into human history, (through Apostolic succession) yet teach different things.

Will the real God please stand up?

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The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

I’m baffled by what you are asserting here. Do you have authority to use the Old Testament as a means to prove to Jews that Jesus is the Messiah?

.

Don’t be baffled anymore.

From the New Testament:

Jesus Has Risen
24 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two menOn the Road to Emmaus
13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles[a] from Jerusalem. 14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.

17 He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”

They stood still, their faces downcast. 18 One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?”

19 “What things?” he asked.

“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”

25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

Amen.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Thank you Martin

But the question was this:
Can you give me a list what the Church revers in those “ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings” which come from other religions?

.

As a courtesy to you I gave a link. Now this thread is about the New Testament. Let’s focus on the subject.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Jesus authority through the Church he built.

Now, A return courtesy about the New Testament. Please. Thanks

MJ

Baha’u’llah’s authority through the Covenant He established, through His eldest son Abdu’l-Baha, then Shoghi Effendi and now until the end of the Baha’i Dispensation, the Universal House of Justice.

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[Servant19]

The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.

MJ

No different to the attributes of God as attested to by the Baha’i Revelation

For 40 years He suffered and lost His son as a sacrifice for humanity to be united in Truth, to be united in Unity, for Unity is Truth…



.

 

[Servant19]

Don’t be baffled anymore.

From the New Testament:

Jesus Has Risen
24 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two menOn the Road to Emmaus
13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles[a] from Jerusalem. 14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.

17 He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”

They stood still, their faces downcast. 18 One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?”

19 “What things?” he asked.

“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”

25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

Amen.

MJ

I don’t understand where the authority is in this passage Martin

Could you help me please?

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[TonyBS]

That’s why Jesus said “Listen!”. His Church is still doing his Will.

MJ

Dear Martin - Yes Jesus says many times in revelation in one way or another “Whoever has ears, let them hear” and also “Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches”.

What I like about revelation is that it is preparing man for Future Times, times that must soon come to pass and in Gods Time that is not one day, one year or even tens of years. History has shown that it is periods of Hundreds up to just over thousands of years between messages.

Revelation then moves forward to laying out events that must come to pass. Up to and around 622AD a lot of Revelation started unfolding and then for another 1260 years unfolded as accurately recorded in Revelation.

The time came when Knowledge had been Increased and the Gate of Heaven again opened and the Glory of the Lord did Enter and Revelation obtained its Fulfillment.

The signs are many A star Heralded the coming of Jesus, Twin stars Heralded the Bab and Baha’u’llah, the Stars fell from Heaven prior to the event, the Jews were finally allowed to return to the Holy land. In fact all the signs we must see were fulfilled in one way or another. This can be no coincidence and when one finds the amount of revelation that was released one can appreciate that statement Jesus Made

I have more to say unto you

But you can not bare it now :sad_yes:

But when He the Spirit of Truth Comes He will Guide you unto all truth.

I have found I am hard to Guide i do pray the world is not as stubborn as me!

Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Baha’u’llah’s authority through the Covenant He established, through His eldest son Abdu’l-Baha, then Shoghi Effendi and now until the end of the Baha’i Dispensation, the Universal House of Justice.

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When the bahai religion eventually corrupts, do you think the successor religion will have a totally different understanding of the New testament?

 

[TonyBS]

When the bahai religion eventually corrupts, do you think the successor religion will have a totally different understanding of the New testament?

Thank you Ignatian,

Yes the Baha’i Faith will remain Pure and Uncorrupted for quite some time.

That there will be a Manifestation after the expiration of a full thousand years, does make one conclude that it may be because we have once again distorted the teachings.

But that is yet to be known unto man, we learn from the past and we can not know the Future.

God bless and regards Tony.

 

[eddie_too]

i do not know why the bahai believe there are four gods. the bahai know that christianity only worships One God. does anyone else wonder why they introduce their concepts like four gods to christians?

i am certain that i have never heard a christian claim that their are four gods. i have only ever heard such a concept from bahai.

what i do know is that i have never read anything written by a bahai that indicates that they have any idea what Jesus taught and what is significant about His Gospel.

the bahai’ whose writings i have read are very quick to pull forth a verse from the N.T. but, invariably, they do not place it in context of the whole Gospel of Jesus. for the bahai, the N.T. is meaningless. they teach that virtually everything the successors to the apostles teach is wrong. i am not blaming them for this insofar as they do not know or understand Jesus’ Gospel and thus it is impossible for them to correctly use the N.T., but i do find it strange that they think christians should ignore the teachings of the Lord’s apostles and replace them with the teachings of men who have no organic relationship to christianity or judaism.

there is NO CONTINUITY between islam and christianity or judaism in the sense that there IS continuity between judaism and christianity. you do not have to be an intellectual or a scholar to understand this.

mohammedism was created from whole cloth, if we are to believe mohammed, from his encounters with a spirit (no one knows whether this was a good or evil spirit). mohammed taught what the spirit told him. there is no human way possible to connect the spirit and its teachings to Jesus Christ.

and always we come back to the real question, what more do we need than Jesus Christ and His Gospel; and its corollary (in the event someone thinks or imagines something they think we need, or should i say conjures up something), for what do we need it?

 

[eddie_too]

there is continuity within all christian faiths that do not need an interloper to establish their claim of continuity.

however, continuity alone does not guarantee the fullness of the Gospel.

by the way, i have been unable to find a passage from the N.T. that says Jesus taught us that one greater than Himself would come to us in human form, even with the most vivid of imaginations and interpretations i cannot find such a passage.

 

[eddie_too]

same story repeats itself, but still we make ourselves blind to the event;

Jesus also said that One Greater would come. Jesus never said that.

John 1428"You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29"Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.… This does not say one greater than Jesus is to come.

Muslim, Babi and Bahai was not the end of Christianity it is also a Fullfillment. christianity has no need for fulfillment. why do some believe that christianity has a need for fulfillment? what is missing from christianity? also, christianity has not ended. why do the bahai claim it has?

Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’ullah have fulfilled Prophesy from the Bible Scriptures as well, the Bab and Baha’u’llah the prophesy of many other scriptures. they fulfill scriptures only when those scriptures are re-interpreted and changed from the meaning of the sacred authors, and taken out of context

Thy all got their Revelations from God, the same Spirit. *** there is no logical or objective reason to believe this. in fact, mohammed says he got his revelation from a spirit. since no spirit revealed anything like that to bab and bahaullah, the most logical conclusion is that they made their teachings up based on the knowledge and understanding they had acquired through their earthly expeience.***

 

[TonyBS]

same story repeats itself, but still we make ourselves blind to the event;

Jesus also said that One Greater would come. Jesus never said that.

John 1428"You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29"Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.… This does not say one greater than Jesus is to come.

Muslim, Babi and Bahai was not the end of Christianity it is also a Fullfillment. christianity has no need for fulfillment. why do some believe that christianity has a need for fulfillment? what is missing from christianity? also, christianity has not ended. why do the bahai claim it has?

Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’ullah have fulfilled Prophesy from the Bible Scriptures as well, the Bab and Baha’u’llah the prophesy of many other scriptures. they fulfill scriptures only when those scriptures are re-interpreted and changed from the meaning of the sacred authors, and taken out of context

Thy all got their Revelations from God, the same Spirit. *** there is no logical or objective reason to believe this. in fact, mohammed says he got his revelation from a spirit. since no spirit revealed anything like that to bab and bahaullah, the most logical conclusion is that they made their teachings up based on the knowledge and understanding they had acquired through their earthly expeience.***

The “Father” has come. This Christ’s Word and He told us before it happened so we could believe.

Everyone has the choice.

Regards Tony

 

[eddie_too]

i suppose i could have missed it in scripture, but i have never read a single word by Jesus that indicates the Father is to become man.

i challenge those who believe otherwise to provide something out of christianity, not including mohammed, joseph smith, bab or bahaullah whom i do not consider christian, anything that indicates Jesus taught His flock that the Father would become man.

until such a citation, verse or passage is provided, i think those who are promoting this misinformation may be acting in bad faith.

if they simply provide where they came up with this imaginative idea, it does not come from Jesus, then maybe they are not acting in bad faith.

but making something up or lying about Jesus and His teachings is an act of bad faith.

 

[TonyBS]

i suppose i could have missed it in scripture, but i have never read a single word by Jesus that indicates the Father is to become man.

i challenge those who believe otherwise to provide something out of christianity, not including mohammed, joseph smith, bab or bahaullah whom i do not consider christian, anything that indicates Jesus taught His flock that the Father would become man.

until such a citation, verse or passage is provided, i think those who are promoting this misinformation may be acting in bad faith.

if they simply provide where they came up with this imaginative idea, it does not come from Jesus, then maybe they are not acting in bad faith.

but making something up or lying about Jesus and His teachings is an act of bad faith.

It is to no man to provide, one has to read the Word of God as recorded by the “Father”.

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

if they simply provide where they came up with this imaginative idea, it does not come from Jesus, then maybe they are not acting in bad faith.

but making something up or lying about Jesus and His teachings is an act of bad faith.

When a person reads the Bible with the knowledge of these keys

The references to “The Glory of the Lord” or “The Glory of God” is to Baha’u’llah, this is the English translation of Baha’u’llah.

Baha’u’llah came in The Station of the Father, Jesus was with the Father on Gods right hand. We see this in Acts 7:55 But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the Glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.

This is what all Christianity and Muslims are waiting for.

This is why the Baha’is love and cherish the Bible and Koran. This is why we can Love all our fellow Christians and Muslims. As the Founders of all Gods Religions are One with God.

Regards Tony