Thoughts on Charasmatic Renewal

  • Thread starter Thread starter MOTHBALL83
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I’ve seen some footage of the Charismatic renewal on youtube and it looked exactly like some Protestant shows I’ve seen on TBN. Quite frankly, it gives me the creeps. :o
 
DavidFilmer said:
There are two types of “tongues” mentioned in the Bible. The first, described in Acts, are “known tongues.” This is where the Apostles proclaimed the Gospel in their own language, but many in the diverse crowd heard it in their own language. The only reason that people figured out that a miracle was taking place was because they saw that these diverse people all seemed to understand what was being said. But not everyone was able to understand.

…
Charismatic spirituality is a very recent invention of fringe protestants. It has no Biblical, historical, or theological precedence or merit. I do not believe this form of spirituality has ANY legitimate place in Catholic worship.
Click to expand...
Not true. I’m a convert to Catholicism, but my grandfather was a protestant Church of God minister. People before 1901 were speaking in tongues. I don’t know that it ever ceased historically. It just didn’t show up in official documents, but honestly a lot of Catholic things don’t because frankly lay-people don’t write church documents.

The speaking of tongues is as old as Scripture. Look at 1 Corinthians 12. The thing to remember is that when tongues appear they should always serve God’s purposes, not man’s. They are given for the good of the Church. They are also used in Scripture to illustrate how a body is made of many parts but all are part of the body, just as the Body of Christ is made of many parts, but it’s all the Body of Christ.

PS your references are some homilies from someplace. They’re not official Church documents. The Vatican’s own website has a speech from PJP2 to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal that begins “Dear Brothers and Sisters!”
Check it out. vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2000/apr-jun/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20000424_catholic-charismatic-renewal_en.html

Personally, I have no problem with charismatic worship, although I would agree that it should not appear in Mass which has a form that must be followed and should not be side-tracked by this type of prayer. This type of prayer should happen outside of Mass, like in a prayer group or a family circle.
 
iloveangels said:
Not true. I’m a convert to Catholicism, but my grandfather was a protestant Church of God minister. People before 1901 were speaking in tongues. I don’t know that it ever ceased historically. It just didn’t show up in official documents, but honestly a lot of Catholic things don’t because frankly lay-people don’t write church documents.

The speaking of tongues is as old as Scripture. Look at 1 Corinthians 12. The thing to remember is that when tongues appear they should always serve God’s purposes, not man’s. They are given for the good of the Church. They are also used in Scripture to illustrate how a body is made of many parts but all are part of the body, just as the Body of Christ is made of many parts, but it’s all the Body of Christ.

PS your references are some homilies from someplace. They’re not official Church documents. The Vatican’s own website has a speech from PJP2 to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal that begins “Dear Brothers and Sisters!”
Check it out. vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2000/apr-jun/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20000424_catholic-charismatic-renewal_en.html

Personally, I have no problem with charismatic worship, although I would agree that it should not appear in Mass which has a form that must be followed and should not be side-tracked by this type of prayer. This type of prayer should happen outside of Mass, like in a prayer group or a family circle.
Click to expand...
Quite right. Glossolalia, speaking in tongues, “tongues of angels” are not a new phenomenon. It’s not even a strictly Christian phenomenon. There are examples of pagans speaking “sacred gibberish” such as the Oracle at Delphi. The question is not “when did ‘speaking in tongues’ start.” The question we should be asking is “Who is initiating the tongues: God, man, or a more sinister spirit?”
 
Hi all, I am of the Charismatic Movement and I can say that most Charismatics are very sensitive to those who aren’t, and would never display in such a way that was contrary to the rest of the congregation. It is most unfortunate that your first exposure was in this inappropriate manner. I would think that probably they were ‘fresh’ in the experience and wrongly wanted to show everyone “how to truely worship” the Lord. I know from experience, that true worship can be quiet and on your knees just as it can loud and with arms aloft. Forgiveness perhaps, should be our attitude towards such jealous though inappropriate behaviour or else we run the risk of being exclusive & pious.
 
illusion_buster said:
Hi all, I am of the Charismatic Movement and I can say that most Charismatics are very sensitive to those who aren’t, and would never display in such a way that was contrary to the rest of the congregation. It is most unfortunate that your first exposure was in this inappropriate manner. I would think that probably they were ‘fresh’ in the experience and wrongly wanted to show everyone “how to truely worship” the Lord. I know from experience, that true worship can be quiet and on your knees just as it can loud and with arms aloft. Forgiveness perhaps, should be our attitude towards such jealous though inappropriate behaviour or else we run the risk of being exclusive & pious.
Click to expand...
I have found that very few of those who consistently criticize the charismatic movement have actually bothered to investigate. A few appear to think that they know more than the Bishops (or even the Pope) on the matter. :confused:
 
I don’t know much about “Charismatic Catholicism”, but I do know the pressure put on folks in many charismatic/pentecostal circles is quite disturbing. I remember when I first came off all my LSD abuse, someone took me to a “prayer meeting”, they were all scattered around the room “speaking in tongues”…FREAKED ME OUT!!! :eek: :bigyikes:

Hank Hanegraaff wrote a great book on this phenomenon titled “Counterfeit Revival.” I have the audio version, it’s priceless! :cool:
 
ltwin said:
Maybe it wasn’t so much like charismatic masses in general and just the fact that the church you were in has some rude people going to it? I don’t know, I’ve only ever been to Protestant Pentecostal services so I wouldn’t know what its like.

Personally though, I think it is rude to speak, sing or pray in tongues so loudly that you disturb those around you. Even in a Pentecostal church, you should only ever do that loudly if everyone else is doing it to as an act of congregational worship or if you are supernaturally being used by God to deliver a message in tongues to the congregation.
Click to expand...
Well,I am so sad to hear that Charismatic Renewal has been brought into such disrepute by such thoughtless and inconsiderate behaviour of a few. The Renewal I know is the most wonderful, uplifting, freeing experience I have ever had in my life, but God meets everyone where they are, and I truly believe that true Charismatics should show a little more respect for how others worship, and meet THEM where they are, just as He met us where we were and where we are! The Holy Spirit blows where He wills, He makes Himself known to those walking along the seafront, He more often than not meets us when we are on our own. Yes, there is a wonderful power when we are all together. No, we do not stand still, Yes we raise our arms in the air in joyous praise, which is an outward sign of inner ecstacy but we also need quiet, we need to be able to listen to that small quiet voice of love to be guided. In fact the majority will say you cannot be a Charismatic without being a contemplative too. How is it that these so-called Charismatics cannot see and appreciate where their Catholic Christian Brothers and Sisters are in their journey in seeking the Holy Spirit? Yes, Many of us have experienced the joy of Sleeping in the Spirit, a thing many of our bretheren do not understand or have experienced. For them it is a grace which cannot be understood at the moment. It is therefore important for us to be gentle, kind and maybe through us and through gentle behaviour and respect, help them to find the Holy Spirit where they are, in the quietness of THEIR worship, then maybe, with prayer and guidance through the Holy Spirit, they will be able to understand where we are, and yes, maybe those seeking a deeper understanding of God, will be able to join us without being frightened off by those who are into their own, individual praise and worship with little regard for where their brothers are. For me the Charismatic Renewal is everything and I praise God that I have found it. It has brought me huge healing, through it it has brought Scripture alive, The Charisms are here for all of us to use NOW for the sake of one another. They are not a thing of the past, and it has changed my life forever. It has also opened my eyes to the gentleness needed, and the fear experienced, by those who do not really understand our ways and are still trying to find that path to the centre of this beautiful faith of ours, When people say truly ‘Yes’ to God, and put our lives firmly in His hands, He will find us wherever we are and lead us on the path he has marked out for us!

I pray that the Holy Spirit removes all arrogance, selfishness, bad judgement and timidity away from us. Love one another in the true sense which God intended.

God Bless.
 
One need not be charismatic or part of the “renewal” to lift one’s hand in praise and adoration of the Lord, but I am very skeptical of this “Sleeping in the Spirit.” :sleep:
 
Fragile said:
One need not be charismatic or part of the “renewal” to lift one’s hand in praise and adoration of the Lord, but I am very skeptical of this “Sleeping in the Spirit.” :sleep:
Click to expand...
I am also skeptical of those being “drunk in the Spirit”, “laughing in the Spirit”, being “slain in the Spirit”…etc…etc. none of which are prescribed in Scripture, and at best, are a psychological manifestation of a learned behavior, a behavior being taught by the CCR.
 
ltwin said:
Quite right. Glossolalia, speaking in tongues, “tongues of angels” are not a new phenomenon. It’s not even a strictly Christian phenomenon. There are examples of pagans speaking “sacred gibberish” such as the Oracle at Delphi. The question is not “when did ‘speaking in tongues’ start.” The question we should be asking is “Who is initiating the tongues: God, man, or a more sinister spirit?”
Click to expand...
Ah, and this can be the problem. Usually it’s fine. But it can be used for good or evil just like anything else in the spiritual life. It can be bad, just like anything else can be, if people attribute power to it rather than God. Care must always be taken when using anything spiritual that the emphasis stays on fidelity to the Church, and good common sense.
 
Fragile said:
I don’t know much about "Charismatic Catholicism"
Click to expand...
Then, instead of basing your opinion on personal anecdotes, why not take the time to learn about it? I know of no one with actual experience in the movement who has gone on to condemn it. There is a long line of naysayers who are ignorant of it, though…
 
Irish_Polock said:
I can see the errors a mile away. What do I not know?
Click to expand...
Simply put, everything. You have been told, numerous times by various posters in various threads, that the charismatic movement is fully Church approved, and has been, is being, and will be thoroughly monitored by the Bishops in the dioceses where it is active. I know of at least one Bishop that is actively involved in the movement. It has benefitted the faith lives of countless Catholics, including me. Please tell us what you know that the Bishops, including Pope Benedict XVI, do not. Oddly, they do not criticize it, rather, they participate in it and monitor it, as all areas of the Church must be.

In my life, I have found it extremely easy to criticize something ad hominem. I also found that it takes effort to actually learn about it.
 
po18guy said:
Simply put, everything. You have been told, numerous times by various posters in various threads, that the charismatic movement is fully Church approved, and has been, is being, and will be thoroughly monitored by the Bishops in the dioceses where it is active. I know of at least one Bishop that is actively involved in the movement. It has benefitted the faith lives of countless Catholics, including me. Please tell us what you know that the Bishops, including Pope Benedict XVI, do not. Oddly, they do not criticize it, rather, they participate in it and monitor it, as all areas of the Church must be.

In my life, I have found it extremely easy to criticize something ad hominem. I also found that it takes effort to actually learn about it.
Click to expand...
Ok, I don’t agree. The Pope and bishops have accepted many errors throughout the history of the Church. A full assent of our faith is not called for on the matter of the CCR, and I am not convinced it is anything other then emotionalism, showing all the classical signs of a psychologically induced phenomenon.

But what do I know. :rolleyes:
 
Originally Posted by DavidFilmer
]I have a vacuum cleaner that’s older than “Charismatic Catholicism!”]

Oh Really!! You have a vacumn cleaner that dates back to the first penticost? I’d like to have it…Must be worth a fortune

I am also skeptical of those being “drunk in the Spirit”, “laughing in the Spirit”, being “slain in the Spirit”…etc…etc. none of which are prescribed in Scripture, and at best, are a psychological manifestation of a learned behavior, a behavior being taught by the CCR.

Perhaps you need to read the acts of the apostles… all of which are discribed there…It is obvious you have never experienced any of the above, or you would know your error…
 
illusion_buster said:
Originally Posted by DavidFilmer
]I have a vacuum cleaner that’s older than “Charismatic Catholicism!”]

Oh Really!! You have a vacumn cleaner that dates back to the first penticost? I’d like to have it…Must be worth a fortune

I am also skeptical of those being “drunk in the Spirit”, “laughing in the Spirit”, being “slain in the Spirit”…etc…etc. none of which are prescribed in Scripture, and at best, are a psychological manifestation of a learned behavior, a behavior being taught by the CCR.

Perhaps you need to read the acts of the apostles… all of which are discribed there…It is obvious you have never experienced any of the above, or you would know your error…
Click to expand...
Indeed, one wonders what sort of sober, sanitized faith some CAF members seem to think the early Church practiced. The book of Acts tells a much different story. I will tell you what drives opposition to the charisms: fear. I experienced that fear until, in a weak moment, I submitted to the Holy Spirit. Our Priest laid hands on me and there has been no looking back. And, I have never uttered a single syllable in a tongue.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top