Thoughts on "Death with Dignity" bills and acts

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Beryllos said:
could be Purgatory or Hell
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Appreciate the thoughts. Had not considered this wrt purgatory…

But for hell, I don’t think “payment” is at all applicable. If I were to suffer in hell, for example, I wouldn’t be able to pay off anything, right? It’s eternal…
 
po18guy said:
Are we being sea lioned?
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I had to look this up… If you’re not willing to participate in the topic or answer my questions, why make the effort to post this? I really only asked you two questions. It’s easy to just move on by, no?
 
I saw the wikipedia article, and I think it’s a good start, but I wasn’t satisfied that it accurately represents Church teaching on the matter. It seems about the level of a high-school term paper. I’m hoping to dig deeper, not just for this thread, but because the Christian perspective on suffering is something I’ve been wondering about for a while.
 
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po18guy said:
Redemptive suffering - Wikipedia
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I’m not sure why you’re posting a Wikipedia article. Are you trying to imply something? It feels a little bit like you’re trolling me.

I’ll ask again just two questions and am open to your (direct) responses.
  1. Is suffering before dying (suffering that is not cut short prematurely…such as these bills would allow), a form of payment?
  2. As per you comment above (“pay it now, or pay it later”), does that “later” include hell?
 
WillPhillips said:
I don’t think “payment” is at all applicable.
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I agree, and I understand “Pay me now or pay me later” as a meme or catchphrase. Perhaps its real meaning is that suffering has benefits: “Pay me now and I will pay you back with interest.”

Suffering is not a payment, but an opportunity and stimulus for spiritual growth. Suffering may lead a person in various ways to greater faith and love, and thereby incline him/her to accept God’s mercy. Without suffering, the same person might be inclined to refuse God’s mercy, thereby choosing hell.
 
WillPhillips said:
That sounds coercive, no?
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At the moment, I do not see the connection to coercion.
WillPhillips said:
Is all end of life suffering considered meritorious (from a Catholic teaching perspective)?
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WillPhillips said:
Same question I asked above, is all end of life suffering redemptive?
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Following on what I wrote in my previous post, no. Suffering is not a payment. It is a stimulus and an opportunity to grow in faith and love. A stimulus amounts to nothing if the person does not respond. An opportunity amounts to nothing if the person does not act.
 
Beryllos said:
It is a stimulus and an opportunity to grow in faith and love
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Agonizing suffering at the end of life is a “stimulus and opportunity” (not coercive) to choose correctly? Am I understanding your statement?
 
I’ll try again.

“End of life suffering, which can be brutal and agonizing, is an opportunity (perhaps a stimulus) to grow in faith. It should not be curtailed.”

Would you agree with this in the context of the OP?
 
I’m not even sure what you’re asking here. As the OP, I was wondering what others thought of this act/bill (one which Florida is also considering, it seems).

My question was whether it was enabling or even assisting suicide considering a physician writes a prescription for a lethal dose of medication to the patient. This could be well before the physical suffering phase, actually. (I imagine anyone would be mentally suffering to find they had six months left to live.)

Has anyone read the PDF I link to in the thread? That’s what I am seeking thoughts on. So, it seems this thread has either gone off on a tangent or digressed, neither of which I hope it does.
 
jvickers said:
Has anyone read the PDF I link to in the thread? That’s what I am seeking thoughts on.
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I read parts of the bill closely, and skimmed other parts. I think I see what it amounts to: a physician and a pharmacist enabling a suicide. The physician prescribes and pharmacist provides the drug which ends life. The patient leaves the doctor’s office and the pharmacy, and administers the drug, as instructed, when he wishes. The physician and a pharmacist are physically and legally distanced from the final decision and the final act, but not really separated ethically, morally, or emotionally. They might as well give the patient a gun and tell him to go home and pull the trigger when he’s ready.
 
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That was my thoughts exactly. I am really hoping the bill does not pass. Georgia is fairly conservative, so I’d be a little shocked if it does. If it goes to a public vote, I’ll have be voting against it.

Thanks, Beryllos, for your poignant thoughts (as always!).
 
WillPhillips said:
I’ll try again.

“End of life suffering, which can be brutal and agonizing, is an opportunity (perhaps a stimulus) to grow in faith. It should not be curtailed.”

Would you agree with this in the context of the OP?
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You sound like you’re doing cross-examination. Why would anyone want to respond to that?

The person you keep questioning has posted several good, detailed explanations of redemptive suffering. Which you seem to be ignoring.

I agree with Beryllos, please explain your own thoughts, make it a discussion and stop interrogating others; it appears you are not asking the questions in good faith, you seem to not be reading anything provided to you, and now you’re being somewhat rude by putting words in the person’s mouth.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
You sound like you’re doing cross-examination
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My apologies. I was feeling frustrated at asking the same question over and over and getting only answers to ‘questions I’m not asking’.

I see OP is asking a very specific question about this bill, not about end of life bills in general, so I’ll see myself out (sorry for derailing op).
 
Beryllos said:
Suffering is not a payment, but an opportunity and stimulus for spiritual growth. Suffering may lead a person in various ways to greater faith and love, and thereby incline him/her to accept God’s mercy. Without suffering, the same person might be inclined to refuse God’s mercy, thereby choosing hell.
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What kind of spiritual growth could someone with Alzheimer’s or some other kind of dementia experience? Such a person isn’t going to be led to greater faith when they can’t even think rationally anymore.
 
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The same could be said for a baby who will die as an infant.

I don’t have all the answers.
 
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