Thoughts on drums in mass?

[TC3033]

I’m pretty sure Archbishop Sample has forbidden the electric guitar in his own archdiocese of Portland. The acoustic guitar may very well be allowed.

What’s the difference??

 

[ioannes_pius]

I’m not sure what you mean.

Here’s what St. Pius X said about the matter:

“15. Although the music proper to the Church is purely vocal music, music with the accompaniment of the organ is also permitted. In some special cases, within due limits and with proper safeguards, other instruments may be allowed, but never without the special permission of the Ordinary, according to prescriptions of the Caeremoniale Episcoporum .

“16. As the singing should always have the principal place, the organ or other instruments should merely sustain and never oppress it.” (Tra le Sollecitudini, Nn. 15-16, my emphasis.)

Tra Le Sollecitudini Instruction on Sacred Music

 

[phil19034]

My personal view is that Tra le Sollecitudini should still be followed. It was issued by St. Pope Pius X

The Saintly Pope said that the following should NOT be used at Mass:

• piano
• drums
• string
• brass

While, woodwind instruments were only allowed with permission from the Bishop.

My personal view is that we should still follow with St. Pius X instructed us to do, esp since Pope John Paul II celebrated the 100 year anniversary of this Motu proprio

Tra Le Sollecitudini Instruction on Sacred Music

Inter pastoralis officii sollicitudines - Wikipedia

http://www.unamsanctamcatholicam.com/liturgy/78-liturgy/306-drums-at-mass.html

 

[Sunbreak]

I’m pretty sure Archbishop Sample has forbidden the electric guitar in his own archdiocese of Portland. The acoustic guitar may very well be allowed. Drums? I’m skeptical…

Really? What is your source. Archbishop Sample issued an Archdiocese Liturgical Handbook in 2018. In it, it says in section 1.46.3:
“While the organ is to be accorded pride of place among musical instruments, other wind, stringed, or percussion instruments may be used in liturgical services in the
United States of America, according to longstanding local usage, provided they are
truly apt for sacred use or can be rendered apt.”

 

[twf]

You’ll have to ask the Archbishop…but it seems pretty intuitive to me to be honest. The Church teaches that profane instruments are not to be used in sacred liturgy. The local bishops define what does or does not constitute a profane instrument. In the Archdiocese of Portland the electric guitar is considered profane. I would say that is true in many dioceses/parishes even if not “on paper”…I certainly can’t recall seeing an electric guitar at Mass in these parts.

 

[TC3033]

In the Archdiocese of Portland the electric guitar is considered profane.

Interesting…why?

As a guitar player, I’d say my solid body Les Paul has a much better sound and “soul” than an acoustic guitar…and, performing in a building the size of a catholic church I can say my acustic would require a pickup, thus making it electric. Is it OK for the priest to use a microphone? If so, why is that OK vs an electric guitar?

 

[stpurl]

Because the actual understanding of the word ‘profane’ is not sacrilegious, but simply ‘not sacred’. As far as the traditional and indeed current understanding of what instruments are considered properly sacred in music involved in sacred worship, the voice and the organ are ‘sacred’ and other instruments, even if widely enjoyed and entirely fine instruments for secular use such as the guitar, are just. . . Not sacred. Profane.

 

[TC3033]

Then why are piano, specifically electric piano in my wife’s parish, OK?

 

[twf]

Yes, the archbishop did indeed forbid the electric guitar and the drumset…

Those instruments, such as electric guitars, that are used in performing Rock Music,
even Christian Rock are not suitable for accompaniment at Holy Mass. Moreover,
although certain percussion instruments can sometimes enhance select pieces used at
Holy Mass, the rock drum kit is never appropriate.
-https://archdpdx.org/documents/2019/1/Sing to the Lord a New Song.pdf

 

[twf]

If you read the quote in my above post, I think it comes down to cultural association. The Church does not allow profane instruments in the Sacred Liturgy…meaning those instruments associated with the things of “this world”. In this case, the implication seems to be that electric guitars are too closely associated with “rock music”. Of course, these are simply the norms in one archdiocese…one local Church…not universal norms.
The text also mentions drum sets. I would tend to agree that drum sets are not appropriate for the Sacred Liturgy in Western society… on the other hand, the ancient and venerable Ethiopic Rite makes use of a liturgical drum…and the drum has been incorporated into the Roman Rite too in much of Africa. I have no issues with this at all.

 

[twf]

Then why are piano, specifically electric piano in my wife’s parish, OK?

Presumably the local bishop is OK with it. Ultimately, the bishop decides what constitutes a sacred instrument and what constitutes a profane instrument for the local Church.

 

[Odilon]

“Some” Kids. Not all. I may have enjoyed Black Sabbath and the Moody Blues and Aerosmith in concert and listening on the Walkman and all (or the trusty transistor), or hearing my sister’s Joan Baez and Bob Dylan’s recordings, but Mass?

I never suggested those artists would be proper at Mass. I’m talking about Christian hymns in which instruments like drums are used.

Now that I am an adult, I appreciate all the types of music I have heard at Mass, including the opera singer.

And not a bit fuddy daddy.

Thanks for clarifying. (You know I was just messing with you, right?)

 

[Odilon]

The Church teaches that profane instruments are not to be used in sacred liturgy

You mean just in your Archdiocese, right? Here in the Archdiocese of St. Petersburg Florida electric guitars and drums are not looked at as profane.

 

[blackforest]

I realize that this whole topic is all about taste and preference, but I could handle drums if Mass were like this.

 

[twf]

You mean just in your Archdiocese, right? Here in the Archdiocese of St. Petersburg Florida electric guitars and drums are not looked at as profane.

No, the Church’s universal guidelines say that profane instruments are not to be used in the liturgy. But as I’ve said elsewhere in this thread, it is ultimately the local bishop who decides which instruments are profane and which can be appropriated for sacred use. This will vary…

I’m not actually sure that the electric guitar is banned in my archdiocese. I can’t recall seeing it anywhere…it may or may not be banned. In the Archdiocese of Portland it definitely is (which is the example I was using earlier).

 

[twf]

I realize that this whole topic is all about taste and preference, but I could handle drums if Mass were like this.

Its not completely a matter of personal preference. The Church has guidelines on sacred music. Its up to the bishop to interpret and apply those guidelines for the local Church…regardless of our personal preferences.
Of course, within the parameters set by our local bishop, personal preference factors in.

 

[Joegrane]

Drums were my primary instrument in school music programs from junior high through college. However it is rare that I find acoustic (real) drums helpful as I try to pray through the music at mass. The drums are usually distracting.

Mostly this is because it is very difficult to to get the tone and volume of the drums to fit in the mix with the music group. The tone is usually too bright. They sit in the mix where the lead vocal should be.

In contrast, realistic-sounding electronic drums can be tweaked to fit well in the mix. In addition to the easy volume adjustment, a tone that is not so bright can be used. Electronic reverb can be used to make the drums sound like they are in a larger space, not in your face in a studio. Electronic drums triggered from pads can require a fraction of the physical space of a typical acoustic kit and are much easier to transport.

I still don’t like well -tweaked electronic drums for several parts of the mass, especially a communion meditation hymn. I prefer a very gentle, peaceful sound at that time.

I welcome efforts to use technology and musical talent to help people praise God at musical prayer meetings, youth events, etc. It is good for young people to see adult Catholics using their talents for the glory of God. It is then easier for them to listen to those contemporary styles of Christian music at home, etc from KLove radio, AllWorship.com, etc.

 

[OddBird]

Interesting…Then why do so many parishes have at least a piano if not a full out organ?

In France at least, there was the practice of having organ variations between the verses of the gregorian hymns, which were sung a capella. The organ also was used for the non-sung musical parts.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

In the Archdiocese of Portland the electric guitar is considered profane. I would say that is true in many dioceses/parishes even if not “on paper”…I certainly can’t recall seeing an electric guitar at Mass in these parts.

Do you have a written source for this or are you just making assumptions?

The main problem I see with electric guitar at Mass is a) It’s too loud and b) Liturgical music is largely not written for electric guitar, unless it’s just an amplified acoustic, which I do see.

Having said that I have seen electric guitar at Mass in at least one diocese (Not Portland).

 

[Jen95]

Then why are piano, specifically electric piano in my wife’s parish, OK?

A lot of people think that piano is not okay. It can also be categorized as a percussion instrument. That’s one of the reasons organ is the preeminent instrument of the Catholic Church, because it sustains a tone like the human voice, it doesn’t strike and then decay. Lots of fun discussions of Catholic music here by people who know what they’re talking about:
https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/4284/how-to-argue-organ-over-piano/p1